Invitation To A Discussion About God

I have a ton of unanswered questions about God. If I am not in the right place, just tell me. I am not interested in starting or engaging in an argument. I have better things to do than argue with anonymous people on the internet. I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind. In fact, what I’m asking is for you to present enough evidence to change my mind. That shouldn’t be a difficult task given that Christians say they know. I’m not trying to show you how silly your Christian beliefs are. I respect a person who strives to live a moral life, whether or not that includes invoking a deity. In America, I will defend your right to worship as you so choose as long as it’s peaceful, legal, and stays out of politics.

I will ask you pointed questions about your beliefs. I am a very direct speaker. I’ve always thought that direct communication to be the best in lieu of leaving people wondering what I meant by what I said. I do speak with a bit of jocular snark or sarcasm, which is a valid form of humor. Think British, dry, sarcastic humor much like Monty Python, Are You Being Served?, or similar. In addition I will challenge your beliefs, not in a derogative manner, but in a manner that asks you to explain what you believe without the normal ‘God works in mysterious ways’ trope. I would appreciate if we didn’t lean on circular reasoning. We cannot prove a negative in regards to God, the bible, and what we believe. In fact, it matters not what we believe, but it does matter if it’s right.

I am most familiar with the Judeo Christian beliefs, the KJV and a handful of derivatives. I am familiar with the Mormon Bible, JW and SDA belief systems, some Hindu, and have studied Jainism, Taoism, Buddhism, and four years ago, I finished reading the English translation of the Quran. Currently reading the Apocrypha which were all the books the Pope deemed unnecessary for the common man to know.

Your mission, should you choose it, is to have a frank, open, honest, and productive discussion about your God, and your beliefs.

Thank you for your time.

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First, welcome to this forum @DarkViper and why did you choose the handle “dark viper?”

J.

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Corinthians 1:18

LOL I am known by many names. It’s a very old hacker persona of mine. A throwback to my wilder days on the internet. I’ve had a computer in front of me since the mid 70s and totally immersed in technology. I am a huge advocate of privacy, security, and anonymity advocate in our real life and especially on the internet, and especially when it comes to minors accessing the internet. If I may be of service to anyone with questions in the realm of privacy, security, and anonymity, I am more than happy to freely help as it is my desire for everyone to use their technology in a safe, private, and anonymous manner as possible. Feel free to DM me. I’m not selling anything, and I advocate the use of opensource software in lieu of corporate software. If I can’t answer your questions, I’ll find someone who can.

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Text (NASB)

“For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.”

  1. Immediate Context…
    Paul the Apostle

Audience: The church in Corinth, a cosmopolitan Greek city with a mix of cultures, philosophies, and social classes.

Purpose: Paul is addressing divisions in the Corinthian church and clarifying the nature of true wisdom and power in God.

Earlier in 1 Corinthians 1:

The Corinthians were aligning themselves with different human leaders (Paul, Apollos, Cephas) - showing pride in human wisdom.

Paul emphasizes that God’s wisdom often looks foolish to the world, especially the Greek ideal of philosophy.

Meaning of the Verse…

“Message of the cross” (λόγος τοῦ σταυροῦ)
Refers to the Gospel of Christ crucified.

Theologically: the crucifixion is the center of salvation, but it defies human expectations of power and honor.
“Foolishness to those who are perishing”
Greek: μωρία (mōria) = folly, silliness, or nonsense.
Those “perishing” reject God’s plan because it contradicts worldly wisdom (power, status, glory).

“Power of God to us who are being saved”
Greek: δύναμις θεοῦ (dynamis theou) = divine power.

The cross is the instrument of God’s saving power, transforming lives and reconciling humanity to Him.

  1. Broader Context
    Contrast between human and divine wisdom (1 Corinthians 1:18–31)
    God often chooses what seems weak, lowly, or foolish to confound human pride.
    Salvation is not through human cleverness or might but through Christ crucified.

Salvation as ongoing

“Those who are being saved” (οἱ σῳζόμενοι) emphasizes the present experience of salvation, not only the future.

Whish is a polemic against worldly standards.

The verse critiques both Greek philosophical elitism and human reliance on social or intellectual power.

Hence…

To nonbelievers, the cross seems absurd because it contradicts worldly notions of honor, power, and wisdom.

To believers, the cross is the very power of God - it saves, transforms, and reveals God’s wisdom in action.
Paul is urging the Corinthians to stop boasting in human leaders or wisdom and to recognize that Christ crucified is the ultimate source of power and wisdom.

Utley said it well…

“to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” These are two present participles. The first is a present middle participle and the second a present passive participle. See SPECIAL TOPIC: SALVATION (GREEK VERB TENSES) at 1Co_3:15. There are only two kinds of people: those who are perishing and those who are being saved (cf. 2Co_2:15; 2Co_4:3). The term “perishing” does not mean physical annihilation, but permanent loss of fellowship with God, for which they were created. See Special Topic at 1Co_1:28. Modern interpreters have taken the Hebrew euphemisms and literalized them. Two examples are:

  1. “sleep” = death, not unconsciousness until resurrection
  2. “perish” = spiritual loss, not annihilation
    Some say that annihilation (i.e., cessation of life) is more humane than a permanent hell (cf. Fudge, The Fire That consumes). The problem arises when the same word used to describe hell is used of heaven (i.e., “eternal,” cf. Mat_25:46) and the mention of a double resurrection as in Dan_12:2; Joh_5:28-30; and Act_24:15. Yet it is not God who sends people to hell, but their own rejection of (1) the light they have (i.e., Psa_19:1-6; Romans 1-2) or (2) the gospel (i.e., the unpardonable sin and the sin unto death are the sin of unbelief). Unbelief in this life affects eternity.
    The NT describes salvation as a
  3. past decisive volitional act (i.e., aorist tense, Act_15:11; Rom_8:24; 2Ti_1:9; Tit_3:5)
  4. a process which continues through life (i.e., present tense, 1Co_1:18; 1Co_15:2; 2Co_2:15)
  5. a past event which becomes a state of being (i.e., perfect tense, Eph_2:5; Eph_2:8)
  6. a future consummation (i.e., future tense, Rom_5:9-10; Rom_10:9; Rom_13:11; 1Co_3:15; Php_1:28; 1Th_5:8-9; Heb_1:14; Heb_9:28)
    The theological danger is to isolate any one of these as “the” essence of salvation. We must always be on guard against an easy believism which emphasizes the initial act only or perfectionism which emphasizes the product only. Salvation is an initial, volitional response to God’s free offer in Christ which issues in a daily Christlikeness. It is not only a person to welcome, but a message about that person to be received, and a life in emulation of that person to live. It is not a product, an insurance policy, a ticket to heaven, but a growing daily relationship with Jesus. The NT does not emphasize making a decision, but being a disciple (cf. Mat_28:19-20).
    The real mystery is that when the gospel is presented, some say “yes” and are saved, but some say “no” and their rebellion is reaffirmed (cf. Luk_2:34; Joh_9:39; 1Pe_2:7). It does not surprise me that people say yes, but I am amazed that with
  7. the desire of God for all to be saved
  8. the finished work of Christ
  9. the wooing of the Sprit
  10. the felt guilt of humanity
  11. the purposelessness of life without God
    that people say “No”! This is the mystery of election (cf. 2Co_3:14; 2Co_4:4; 2Co_11:3).

J.

Well, in order to bet your eternal soul on something, you must understand it. It’s got to make sense. A God who you believe created this vast universe that locks together with logic, has got to function with logic himself. After all, he said:

Isaiah 1:18: Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD

In another:

1 John 4: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

He is giving a direct order to ask questions, to apply reason and logic.

I’ll be back later this evening to deploy my questions. I assure you this is a long conversation, and I’d like detailed responses if that is possible.

Correct, but what type of “testing” is mentioned here?

1Jn 4:1 Beloved, Ἀγαπητοί, vvv μὴ do not believe πιστεύετε, every παντὶ spirit, πνεύματι but ἀλλὰ test δοκιμάζετε the τὰ spirits, πνεύματα whether εἰ they are ἐστιν, of ἐκ - τοῦ God, Θεοῦ because ὅτι many πολλοὶ false prophets ψευδοπροφῆται have gone out ἐξεληλύθασιν into εἰς the τὸν world. κόσμον.

According to BDAG 255 s.v. δοκιμάζω 1 the verb means “to make a critical examination of someth. to determine genuineness, put to the test, examine.”

And here…

Test the spirits. Since in the second half of the present verse the author mentions “false prophets” who have “gone out into the world,” it appears highly probable that his concept of testing the spirits is drawn from the OT concept of testing a prophet to see whether he is a false prophet or a true one. The procedure for testing a prophet is found in Deut 13:2-6 and 18:15-22. An OT prophet was to be tested on the basis of (a) whether or not his predictive prophecies came true (Deut 18:22) and (b) whether or not he advocated idolatry (Deut 13:1-3). In the latter case the people of Israel are warned that even if the prophet should perform an authenticating sign or wonder, his truth or falsity is still to be judged on the basis of his claims, that is, whether or not he advocates idolatry. Here in 1 John the idea of “testing the spirits” comes closer to the second OT example of “testing the prophets” mentioned above. According to 1 John 4:2-3, the spirits are to be tested on the basis of their christological confession: The person motivated by the Spirit of God will confess Jesus as the Christ who has come in the flesh, while the person motivated by the spirit of deceit will not confess Jesus and is therefore not from God. This comes close to the idea expressed by Paul in 1 Cor 12:3 where the person speaking charismatic utterances is also to be judged on the basis of his christological confession: “So I want you to understand that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, ‘Jesus is cursed,’ and no one can say ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.”
NET.

1Jn_4:1 “do not believe”

This is a present imperative with a negative particle which usually means to stop an act already in process.

The tendency of Christians is to accept strong personalities, logical arguments, or miraculous events as from God.

Apparently the false teachers were claiming
(1) to speak for God or
(2) to have had a special revelation from God.

SPECIAL TOPIC: Should Christians Judge One Another?

“every spirit”
Spirit is used in the sense of a human person. See note at 1Jn_4:6. This refers to a supposed message from God. Heresy comes from within the church (cf. 1Jn_2:19).

The false teachers were claiming to speak for God. John asserts that there are two spiritual sources, God or Satan, behind human speech and action.

“but test the spirits”

This is a Present active imperative. This is both a spiritual gift (cf. 1Co_12:10; 1Co_14:29) and a necessity for every believer, as are prayer, evangelism, and giving. This Greek word dokimazô has the connotation of "to test with a view toward approval."

Believers must think the best of others unless the worst is proven (cf. 1Co_13:4-7; 1Th_5:20-21).
Utley.

J.

I am not fluent in Greek. However, I would accept the statement ‘to determine genuineness, put to the test, examine’. To determine genuineness, test, or examine, one must ask questions. All knowledge and wisdom stems from a single question.

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None of the questions I will ask are ‘gotcha’ questions. To quote Nina Simone, ‘I’m just a sould whose intentions are good. Oh Lord please don’t let me be misunderstood.’

I want to ask you some prep questions for which I will assume your response. If I am errant in my assumptions, please do correct me. This will lay the foundation for this long conversation.

  • You believe in and worship one God. The Judaeo Christian God. He apparently has 3 different facets(?), all rolled into one God.

  • You believe that your KJV bible is the infallible, inspired word of God. Inspired as in, he guided the scribes hands and whispered into their ear the words he wanted written down.

  • You believe that this God is infinite, omnipotent, and without limitations.

  • You believe in a God who knows all, sees all, does all, is all, created all, seen and unseen.

  • You believe in a literal eternal reward and a literal eternal damnation where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

Of the issues I have understanding, I will start with my most problematic points:

In order to define this God, I want to lay down a baseline for what an infinite, omnipotent God without limitations would know about little old me. You might say ‘everything’ but lets try to bring that down to ‘me size’. I want you to know that I am not trying to be flippant or blasphemous about your God and your beliefs.

An infinite, omnipotent God, without limitations would know and have intimate knowledge of each dead skin cell I raked off my head as I combed what’s left of my hair. He would know me on a molecular level. He would know me on an atomic level, a subatomic level. A level that we as humans just can’t wrap our noodle around at this point in our timeline. Multiply this times 8.4 billion humans currently, and however many billions that have previously inhabited this planet.

When did God have this knowledge? A day ago? A week ago? No. He has known from way back before there was anything to call anything. When the world was null and void. In fact, we can go much farther than that. Because he is infinite, and because he knows all, does all, sees all, is all, created all, seen and unseen, he has always known this. His power will not allow him not to know.

What do we know about things that God knows? They happen. The whole book of Revelations is about what is going to happen. Not what might happen, or could happen if we don’t change our ways, but what is going to happen. Again, he has known for infinity because he created this all and laid out this plan for this universe and those humans who inhabit it.

To test this, we can skip through to the end of Revelations to the great white throne judgment with all that pageantry and sorrow, and pain, waiting to be judged for our sins in an open forum. God the father steps to the podium and cracks open the book of life. Do you think that anything in that ‘book’ will be a surprise? Of course not. He is infinite, omnipotent, and without limitations. He has always known for he was the one who wrote the ‘book’ in the first place in infinity.

This brings up the serious question of free will. Now I realize you will say ‘Man has freewill to do as he pleases,’ but that does not seem possible given the framework we have discussed earlier. If God knows all, has known all, and what he knows happens, we cannot have freewill. True freewill would be the ability to do something that an infinite, omnipotent God without limitations, didn’t anticipate or already know. That would be freewill in it’s truest form. Otherwise, if/since God knows, it happens.

To whom are these questions directed @DarkViper? Oh, I see this is an invitation to all members.
01.28 AM here, so I’m a bit slow on the uptake.

J.

The problem with your logic seems to me all those things that occur to you at best seem foolish, and since he knows everything Him knowing your end why wouldn’t He just take a look at the end and put those that won’t endure to the end in the never gone to make it files. And that would free Him in a manner of speech, not to waste His time on those in that category! Seems logical, doesn’t it?

He tells us this very thing in Matthew 7:13: Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat.

What is he saying to me? He is saying that the vast amount of his very own creation, whom he created with his own hands, in his own image, and breathed his own breath of life into our bodies, that he claims he wants to have a relationship with; the vast amount of them will be cast into eternal damnation. Only a select few will achieve eternal reward. He already knows who is going to eternal damnation, and who is going to eternal reward, and has known this for infinity. He either knows this and retains his status as omnipotent, infinite, and without limitations, or he does not and therefore is not infinite, omnipotent, and without limitations.

There is no other way around this. You cannot put a ‘but’ into infinite, omnipotent, or without limitations. As soon as you do, he ceases to be all powerful. You cannot say ‘Well, he does know, but we have freewill.’ That doesn’t work.

You see, in my studies, the whole biblical story hinges upon one event, and it’s not God coming to this earth in the form of man, to die on the cross to save us from our sins…..which he created. It happens much earlier with the creation of angels. Now some of the angels were very important. You don’t even have to crack the binding on a bible to know who Gabriel is. However, there was one specific angel. He is known by many names: Lucifer, Roaring Lion, Belial, The Prince of Darkness, Satan. God created Lucifer with the express, infinite knowledge that when he created Lucifer, the following would happen:**

  1. God** knew Lucifer would rebel and try to pull a coup d’é tat on an infinite, omnipotent God, without limitations. Lucifer wasn’t very bright in my estimation.

2. God knew he would kick Lucifer out of Heaven.

3. God knew Lucifer would take a hoard of angels with him.

4. God knew that Lucifer and his horde of angels would make their first stop on planet earth, specifically Eden, where Lucifer would tempt the first two inhabitants of this planet.

5. God knew that Adam and Eve would succumb to temptation.

6. God knew he would kick Adam and Eve out of the Garden Of Eden for their disobedience.

7. God knew that this act would forever plunge the world into sin, sorrow, pain, agony, death, destruction, famine, wars, pestilence.

God knew this with express, infinite, knowledge, and he did it anyways.

That’s a hard pill to swallow. I was forced into this world, not of my own accord or freewill. I was immediately branded a sinner, headed to eternal damnation for eternity, because of two people whom I’ve never met, who were apparently responsible for the entire fate of mankind. This is the way God created the plan for this planet’s inhabitants.

I realize that I am the molded, asking the molder, ‘Why?’ I have been told that this is arrogance on my part, to question the will of an almighty God. However, he gave us a direct command to do just that in 1 John 4: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Additionally, in Isaiah 1:18: Come now, and let us reason together, saith the lord. Here he is giving us a direct command to ask questions, and I have a very long list of them.

Look around at this universe, complex and mind blowing, and yet it is very logical. It fits together like a jigsaw puzzle. Where we may have seen chaos before, with a different perspective coupled with technology, we now see order. Top notch work I’d say. The flora and fauna of this planet, equally as complex and mind blowing, and yet it all fits together in a very logical manner. Again, top drawer work. However, humanity? I’ve got to say, not his best work and definitely not logical for the most part. Given the logic of this universe, and the logic of the flora and fauna of this planet, I would expect a God of that magnitude to be quite logical. Yet, I cannot find the logic in creating mankind just to torture them while they are alive, and to step up that torture after death, in eternal damnation. Human beings he says that he loves.

I don’t know about you, but I have been in a relationship for over 4 decades now. I love my partner unconditionally. Meaning, there is nothing she has to do to receive my love, and there is nothing she can do to make it stop. It just is. I don’t go home and beat my partner. Why? Not because I may get into trouble with the law, or that it might run afoul of morality, but because I love her unconditionally. Also, because I don’t know that much karate. We do not cause intentional pain and harm to those we love. This is just on a human level. How much more on a God/creator level? However, I fail to see the love.

Welcome @DarkViper, Hoping you are really attempting to learn and not trolling. So here we go.

Yes. It is called the Trinity. Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All are eternal. All are one God. As you can see on this Forum, some disagree; however, Truth does not require your acceptance.

No, I believe that the Word of God is infallible. Newer translations are actually a bit better. The Dead Sea Scrolls (Discovered 1947). Before 1947, the oldest complete Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament was the Masoretic Text, dating to around 1000 AD. These scrolls, found in the Qumran caves, date from 250 BC to 68 AD. When scholars compared the Dead Sea Scrolls to the Masoretic Text (produced 1,000 years later), they were stunned. The texts were nearly identical.

For example, the Great Isaiah Scroll matched the modern version with over 95% accuracy; the remaining 5% consisted primarily of minor spelling variations and “slips of the pen” that did not change any meaning or doctrine

The Rylands Library Papyrus (P^{52}). Discovered in Egypt in 1920, this tiny fragment of the Gospel of John is dated to approximately 125–150 AD. Because it dates to within just a few decades of the original Gospel of John’s likely date of composition, it serves as a “time bridge.” It proves that the New Testament was already circulating far and wide very early on and that the text we have today matches what was being read in the 2nd century.

The “Great Uncials” (4th Century AD)Two massive, nearly complete Greek Bibles survive from the 4th century: Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.The Proof: These provide a full look at the Bible as it existed shortly after the Roman Empire legalized Christianity. While they contain minor regional variations (textual variants), they confirm that the structure and content of the Bible have remained consistent for over 1,700 years.

Yes.

Yes. Jesus did create all things. All things were created by Him and for Him.

Yes.
Peter

Yes.

“Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.” Matthew 10: 29-30

God foreknows who you are. He sets up a plan and a purpose for your life. Then God calls you to accept it or not. If you say yes, He prepares you. If you endure to the end, He will glorify you along with Jesus Himself.

Because of this process, “Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.” He forms you in a very specific way for a very specific reason. You were formed exactly the way God wrote you will be, in His Book.

Picture God sitting down at a blank Canvas. He says to Himself, " This is going to be entitled ‘Peter.’ I will make him this tall. I will make his eyes brown. Hair? Brown. I will give him a large build. Perhaps a happy little Birthmark over here. I will make him strong-willed. He will be able to do this and that. He will be the one I call to…" then he puts His brush to the paint, and then to the Canvas. From a blank Canvas, I come into existence.

Yes. It will happen. This is why God came to earth and died for you. All you have to do is accept the free gift and live. You will no longer have to worry. God is waiting to give us time.

“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9

No. God is a fair God. He will judge all on their own words and deeds. This is for us, not God.

God is outside of time. He is in the past, present, and future. He does know if Peter is going to accept Him or not. That does not change my free will. If I could go into the future, and see the lotto numbers, come back and win, did I make those numbers? No. Just because we know something, or in this case God, does not mean He is forcing anyone to do anything. He wants people to love and worship Him freely.

Trying to understand an infinite God with our finite minds is futile. It is completely impossible for us to understand much of God.
Peter

Look at a Painting. It is beautiful. Have you ever met the Artist? Did you ever look at a painting and doubt that there was a Painter? Look at a Picasso and say, there is no Picasso. No. Of course not. The painting itself is evidence that there was a Painter. Just like any other Work of Art, YOU are evidence that there was a Creator. You are proof, there is a God.

As I said before, it is impossible for our little minds to wrap around even a concept of God. We can see glipses. Learn what He tells us. Maybe even guesstimate certain things based on what we read in His Word. God never intended for man to go to hell. We chose that. God made the way simple and open to all.

" For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." John 3:16-18

It is that simple. It is that easy. That is to all.

" And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1 John 5:12

Peter

The more I read my bible, the more I fall in love with my Savior, Jesus Christ and thank Abba for the sealing of the Holy Spirit.

Reread Genesis 1 & 2.

J.

>No, I believe that the Word of God is infallible. Newer translations are actually a bit better

Fine, however at some point God inspired all of these to be written, no? All of these scrolls, papyrus, et al…these are his words, correct? He inspired them to be written.

2 Timothy 3:16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

All means all.

2 Peter 1:21: For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 4:4: But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

No worries mate. Go to bed.

The problem with making these kinds of analogies is that we are mere mortals. We are not an infinite, omnipotent God, without limitations.

If you have a God that knows the beginning, the middle and the end, you cannot have freewill, and for this reason. You mentioned God is infallible. Therefore, everything that we do, he has already known. What God knows happens. If we had freewill, then we would be able to do something that an infinite, omnipotent God, without limitations didn’t anticipate. Otherwise, from cradle to grave, your every action is known because that is how God planned it.

In Jeremiah 1:5: Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Here God is doing several things:

  1. He knew Jeremiah before he was even conceived.

2. He sanctified Jeremiah, declared and made him holy, even before birth, to be a prophet.
3. He ordained Jeremiah before birth.

This sounds very much like predestination. It all honestly, does not sound like Jeremiah had any choice in the matter. This was his predesignated fate. However, if Jeremiah did have a choice, and decided not to be the prophet to the nations, would God have had to drop back to choice #2?

We can go back again to where Lucifer was created with God’s infinite, express, foreknowledge of Lucifer’s every action after his creation. Did Lucifer have freewill? Could Lucifer have decided not to rebel? If Lucifer had freewill, and decided he would not rebel against God, would God have had to create a Lucifer v2.0 in order to carry out the entire biblical story?

Without Lucifer rebelling, the whole biblical story falls apart. There is no sin, no suffering, torment, pain, agony, or death, there is no cross. There would be no use for a heaven or hell either. If Lucifer did not have freewill, then God programmed Lucifer to rebel, tempt Adam & Eve, and thus Lucifer was merely a pawn in God’s plan. At the very least, God created the very mechanism by which sin, suffering, torment, et al, entered this world. He knew it, and did it anyways.

God eludes to this in Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

No, not foolish….very confusing, which is counter to what he said about confusion:

1 Corinthians 14:33: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

Of course, one can not overlook the fact that he said he would confuse:

2 Thessalonians 2:11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: