# Is God - Trinity or Duality **URL:** \ **Category:** Theology\ **Created:** [March 9, 2026, 3:01pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593 "2026-03-09T15:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Johann](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/johann/32/2399_2.png) [@Johann](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/Johann)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2026, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/142 "2026-04-06T23:16:52Z")
> [@anon3111385](#): > > It just doesn’t imply what he thought it did, which is that they “Knew” they were naked. It doesn’t say they knew. Let’s see the grammar and morphology here @anon3111385 . Genesis 2:25\[1\] The key term here is עֲרוּמִּים (ʿărummîm), masculine plural adjective from the root ערם (ʿ-r-m), meaning “naked” or “bare.” Morphologically, it is a qal adjectival form functioning predicatively with the verb “were” (understood copula). Crucially, this is paired with לֹא יִתְבֹּשָׁשׁוּ (lōʾ yitbōšāšû), a hitpael imperfect, 3rd person plural, from בושׁ (bôš), “to be ashamed.” The hitpael stem carries a reflexive nuance, **“they were not experiencing shame” or “they did not feel shame.”** So the text explicitly affirms two things before the fall **they were naked** **they were not ashamed** This already implies awareness without shame, **not ignorance of their physical state.** Now observe the narrative contrast introduced in Genesis 3. Genesis 3:7\[2\] Here the verb is decisive: וַיֵּדְעוּ (wayyēḏʿû), qal wayyiqtol, 3rd person plural, from ידע (y-d-ʿ), “to know.” **This verb in the qal denotes cognitive recognition, awareness, or experiential knowledge.** The phrase is כִּי עֵירֻמִּם הֵם (kî ʿêrummîm hēm), “that they were naked.” Notice the adjective form shifts slightly to עֵירֻמִּם (ʿêrummîm), but remains from the same root ערם, **still meaning “naked.”** Now the interpretive issue… If they were already naked in 2:25, what does it mean that they “knew” they were naked in 3:7? The answer lies in the semantic range of ידע **(yādaʿ).** This verb often denotes not mere intellectual awareness, **but experiential, evaluative knowledge.** It is the difference between perceiving a fact and interpreting its significance. **So the shift is not from ignorance to awareness of nudity as such, but from innocent awareness to self-conscious evaluation.** This is confirmed by the immediate response: they sew coverings. That action is not triggered by new visual data, but by a new internal condition. This is reinforced further in the divine interrogation. Genesis 3:11\[3\] The question **“Who told you?” implies that the knowledge of nakedness in this new sense is derivative of disobedience, not original creation.** Now an important lexical observation strengthens the argument. In Genesis 2:25, “naked” (עֲרוּמִּים) stands in deliberate wordplay with Genesis 3:1, where the serpent is described as עָרוּם (ʿārûm), “crafty” or “subtle,” from the same root ערם. This is not accidental. The narrative links innocent nakedness (no shame) with deceptive cunning (leading to shame) The fall transforms the human condition from openness without shame to self-consciousness marked by guilt and concealment. So, to state the conclusion precisely. Adam and Eve **did know they were naked** before the fall in a straightforward perceptual sense, as indicated by the adjective עֲרוּמִּים **and the absence of shame expressed by לֹא יִתְבֹּשָׁשׁוּ.** After the fall, וַיֵּדְעוּ **(they knew) introduces a new kind of knowledge,** not the discovery of nudity itself, but the moral and existential awareness of their condition, **resulting in shame, fear, and concealment.** So the text does not teach a transition from ignorance to awareness of nakedness, but from innocence to guilty self-awareness. This distinction is rooted in the Hebrew morphology and the semantic force of ידע, and it is confirmed by the narrative logic of Genesis 2–3. Make sense? Gen 3:7 **And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were eirummim (naked ones); and they sewed aleh te’enah (fig leaves) together, and made themselves khagorot (loin covering girdles).** J. * * * 1. 2. 3. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/bruce_leiter/32/2575_2.png) [@Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/Bruce_Leiter)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2026, 8:10pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/143 "2026-04-21T20:10:03Z")
> [@BrotherDavid](#): > > Actually the trinity and the three fold titles of baptism was a later development. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus was on the Mt. of Olives, there was no water and they were not baptizing. You said, “Actually the trinity and the three fold titles of baptism was a later development. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus was on the Mt. of Olives, there was no water and they were not baptizing.” Are you saying, @BrotherDavid, that Jesus did not utter those words of Matthew 28:19 before he ascended into heaven after his resurrection? Whatever the early church did, Jesus did commission his church to make disciples and baptize them with those words. Do you agree? ---
**Author:** ![BrotherDavid](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@BrotherDavid](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/BrotherDavid)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2026, 8:32pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/144 "2026-04-21T20:32:45Z")
Bruce, that is 100% correct- and that is exactly what they did when they baptized “In the Name of Jesus Christ” of “In the Name of the Lord Jesus” Jesus said to baptize IN THE NAME (not titles) ---
**Author:** ![anon3111385](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@anon3111385](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/anon3111385)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2026, 9:27pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/145 "2026-04-21T21:27:00Z")
As I believe I shared earlier the Name meant the reality, God’s Presence of the holy trinity. The way in which kingdom work is done through disciples, should be in the presence of God. Go make disciples of all nations… teaching them to do all I commanded u Immersing them in The reality of God (f,s,hg) … _And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, \*\*\* All power_ is given unto me in heaven and in earth.\* _19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:_ _20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen._ … My interpretation Go disciple all nations surrounding them in the reality of God’s presence, teaching them to do my words and im with u til its done. The key here is that He has been given all power..for some reason I believe this has to do with recognition of who He is…for why all power and not some? Because He accomplished the goal that was set before Him on earth. Doing what is only possible because of who He is. Having the power to lay his life down and pick it up again. Only, But God! So now you know who you working with, so u should know I can do anything… ---
**Author:** ![BetterDays](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/betterdays/32/7756_2.png) [@BetterDays](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/BetterDays)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2026, 9:54pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/146 "2026-04-21T21:54:56Z")
going and reading these debates is fascinating, your swords are sharp, your shields strong, and your faith remarkable, you, inspire me @Johann @anon3111385 @sryu98 @TheologyNerd @Bruce_Leiter @PeterC. I hope one day to know half as much. God Bless ---
**Author:** ![Who-me](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/w/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Who-me](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/Who-me)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 12:06pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/147 "2026-04-22T12:06:20Z")
If I may short circuit this thread,. Please re read the first 3 verses and note he says we proclaim what we have seen, what we have touched. They saw and touched Jesus, they had seen the unmistakable evidence of God the Father and they proclaimed it. It is not a formula for dualism, but a reporting of their experience. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/bruce_leiter/32/2575_2.png) [@Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/Bruce_Leiter)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 3:07pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/148 "2026-04-22T15:07:26Z")
@BrotherDavid, what are you agreeing to? Are you saying that Jesus didn’t say the following words, especially verse 19? Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” ---
**Author:** ![BrotherDavid](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@BrotherDavid](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/BrotherDavid)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 7:22pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/149 "2026-04-22T19:22:09Z")
Corlove13 said: Name meant the reality, God’s Presence of the holy trinity. Chapter and verse please… ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/bruce_leiter/32/2575_2.png) [@Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/Bruce_Leiter)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2026, 8:28pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/150 "2026-04-22T20:28:16Z")
Ah, I see, @BrotherDavid. May God bless you. ---
**Author:** ![PeterC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/peterc/32/7200_2.png) [@PeterC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/PeterC)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2026, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/151 "2026-04-23T09:00:12Z")
> [@BetterDays](#): > > going and reading these debates is fascinating, > your swords are sharp, your shields strong, and your faith remarkable, you, inspire me @Johann @Corlove13 @sryu98 @TheologyNerd @Bruce_Leiter @PeterC. > I hope one day to know half as much. > God Bless Thank you for the kind words @BetterDays Peter ---
**Author:** ![anon3111385](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@anon3111385](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/anon3111385)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2026, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/152 "2026-04-23T14:01:58Z")
Thanks David for recognizing…It’s been posted already. ---
**Author:** ![anon3111385](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@anon3111385](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/anon3111385)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2026, 2:09pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/153 "2026-04-23T14:09:40Z")
# [Is God - Trinity or Duality] [![](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/e9c0ed/144.png)](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/corlove13) [Corlove13](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/corlove13) [![](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/bruce_leiter/72/2575_2.png "Bruce\_Leiter")](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/86) [Mar 18](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/86) Whatever God makes you happy about is amazing. Not sure of what you mean by content and formula. **But I expressed to you previously that the “name” is speaking of reality** Like experiencing God presence. I pointed out scriptures where the name is associated with reality. I would love for you to speak to that point in bold..did you not agree? This is how He tells the disciples to immerse (baptize, associate them with) by teaching them to observe all the things I commanded you… Heres some more info below I found that may help with the understanding of “name” . _The Name in the Tabernacle/Temple (Presence)_ \*\* **Deuteronomy 12:5 (CSB):** “But you are to seek the place the Lord your God chooses from all your tribes to put **his name there for his dwelling** —you are to go there.” (This establishes that God’s name _is_ His presence in the sanctuary).\* \*\* **1 Kings 8:29 (NIV):** “May your eyes be open toward this temple night and day, this place of which you said, ‘ **My Name shall be there** ,’ so that you will hear the prayer your servant prays toward this place.”\* \*\* **2 Chronicles 33:7:** “He even set a carved image… in the house of God, of which God had said to David and to Solomon his son, ‘In this house and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen… **I will put My name forever**.’”\* _2. The Name Representing God Himself_ \*\* **Exodus 23:21 (NKJV):** “Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for **My name is in Him**.” (Referring to the Angel of the LORD, indicating God’s presence is within the messenger).\* \*\* **Psalm 20:1:** “May the LORD answer you in the day of trouble; **May the name of the God of Jacob defend you**.” (The name acts as a shield, signifying active presence).\* \*\* **Proverbs 18:10:** “The name of the LORD is a strong tower; The righteous man runs into it and is safe.”\* _3. The Name Signifying God’s Presence with People_ \*\* **Numbers 6:27:** “So **they shall put My name upon the children of Israel** , and I will bless them.”\* \*\* **Ezekiel 48:35:** “…The name of the city from that day shall be: **THE LORD IS THERE** [Jehovah-Shammah].” (This explicitly links the naming of a place to the reality of God’s presence).\* \*\* **Jeremiah 23:6 (NIV):** “…This is the name by which he will be called: **The Lord Our Righteousness**.”\* _4. New Testament Fulfillment (Jesus)_ \*\* **Matthew 1:23:**"…They shall name him Immanuel,” which is translated ‘ **God is with us**.’”\* \*\* **Matthew 28:19:** “…baptizing them in the **name** of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.” (The presence of the Triune God).\* \*\* **John 17:6:** “I have manifested **Your name to the people** whom You gave Me out of the world…” (Jesus revealing the Father’s presence/nature).\* _In summary, the Name of God in these contexts is not merely a label, but a designation for **Yahweh’s manifestation among His people**._ ---
**Author:** ![Johann](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/johann/32/2399_2.png) [@Johann](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/Johann)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2026, 3:29pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/154 "2026-04-23T15:29:47Z")
> [@anon3111385](#): > > But I expressed to you previously that the “name” is speaking of reality In Scripture the category “name” is not merely a phonetic label or arbitrary designation, but a semantic carrier of **identity, nature, authority, and revealed character,** so that to speak of a “name” is to speak of the person as they are known and disclosed in covenantal reality rather than simply what they are called. At the lexical level, Hebrew שֵׁם (šēm) and Greek ὄνομα (onoma) both extend beyond nominal reference into the domain of reputation, essence, and manifested identity, so that a “name” functions metonymically, standing for the person’s being, authority, and revealed attributes. This is why the divine self-revelation in Exodus is not a mere identifier but an ontological disclosure, as seen in Exodus 3:14\[1\] where the “name” YHWH is bound to God’s self-existence, covenant faithfulness, and underived being, not merely a title but a declaration of who He is in Himself. Similarly, the “name” of Jesus is not reducible to the phonetic form Ἰησοῦς, but signifies His identity and saving mission, as made explicit in Matthew 1:21\[2\] where the name is etymologically and theologically tied to His role as Savior, integrating person and work. This conceptual depth explains why “name” can function as a locus of divine presence and authority, as in John 17:6\[3\] where to reveal the Father’s “name” is to reveal His character, will, and redemptive purpose through the Son, not merely to disclose a verbal designation. Accordingly, actions done “in the name” signify acting under the authority and in alignment with the character of the one named, as in Colossians 3:17\[4\] where “name” functions as the operative sphere of authority and representation. Therefore, in biblical ontology, **a “name” is best understood as the revealed identity and operative authority of a person, encompassing character, nature, and covenantal self-disclosure,** so that YHWH, Jesus, or any personal name in Scripture is not merely a label but a theological and relational reality that communicates who that person truly is. J. * * * 1. 2. 3. 4. ---
**Author:** ![CreatedbyGod](https://forums.crosswalk.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@CreatedbyGod](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/CreatedbyGod)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2026, 12:52pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/155 "2026-04-24T12:52:44Z")
WOW! The Holy Spirit "Was” a later development. What bible are you reading? First chapter Genesis: …and the “SPIRIT” of God (notice that it doesn’t say simply GOD), moved upon the waters of the deep. The earth was buried, and under water. In order for GOD the FATHER, to separate the Land from the Water something other than a simple command had to occur. It was God’s “Holy” spirit that had to prepare it. When God’s spirit hovered over the deep, He sanctified the land, and only then could He separate the water from the land. Why? because then He could create from His word (The Word) new life. The Israelites were taken out of “BONDAGE” from the sin of this world (egypt) through water baptism - death, in order to obtain new life on the “OTHER SIDE”. “and when they reached the other side, they sang a NEW song”, thanks to the work of the Holy Spirit. In the first chapter of Johns Gospel we read: “in the begining, was the word, and the word was ‘WITH’ God, and the word ‘WAS’ God”. When God said: '“Let there be light”. God was no calling light into existance, but rather, God gave a command to His word to create it. John says that apart from the word, nothing that was created could have been created. After light was created we read, and God “SAW” (past tense) that it was good. In the begining we see the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit in operation clearly. The Apostles didn’t have a new testament to read from, they preached the entire Gospel from the Old Testament Scriptures, because the entire Gospel is in the OT. The Apostles backed up everything they taught from the scriptures, the only scriptures they had at the time, the OT. The Word/Jesus warns to not greive the Holy Spirit, because that is the unpardonable sin. Do not call yourselves Christians if you don’t beleive you are born again by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, you would be deceiving yourself, and bringing condemnation on yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/user_avatar/forums.crosswalk.com/bruce_leiter/32/2575_2.png) [@Bruce\_Leiter](https://forums.crosswalk.com/u/Bruce_Leiter)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2026, 3:56pm UTC](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593/156 "2026-04-25T15:56:23Z")
Amen, CreatedbyGod! I agree with you. [Previous page](https://forums.crosswalk.com/t/is-god-trinity-or-duality/17593.md?page=7)