As I so now see…
Yup, you get what I was asking! 
And I agree with you. So in what ways would you suggest one focus on it?
Also, I think as Christians we do need to figure out how to adapt to all changes in cultural shifts, from political correctness, woke-ism, cancel culture, etc., without loosing sight of Biblical perspective and guidance. Any thoughts on that?
The best way I know how to discuss this is by sharing some of my personal experience.
I had something of a watershed moment in the years following 9/11. I observed many of the sorts of people who helped instill in me certain values that I learned in Sunday School and in church turn in ways that became difficult to harmonize together. The language I started hearing about Muslims, not just the terrorists who attacked on 9/11, or militant, extremist groups–but rather speak about all Muslims as though Muslims were to be viewed as the enemy.
I grew up being taught that all human beings were created in God’s image and deserving of love, kindness, and respect. This was true generally across the board, as I experienced several different sorts of church environments. My family’s church, when I was born, was a conservative non-denominational church, my parents had me attend a school affiliated with an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church, and due to some church shenanigans with our first church we ended up attending a Foursquare church until I was an adult. I point this out to say that this was very much a conservative and Evangelical space that I was raised–and the message was always the value of human beings, that God loves everyone, and Jesus tells me to love even my enemies. And that no group of people is “the enemy” because we do not fight against flesh and blood, but against the spiritual forces of darkness.
But the language was shifting in those years. When I voiced my conscientious objections to the war in Iraq, and voiced my concerns about the growing tide of anti-Muslim hate, and the way I saw Christians supporting the war, saying Muslims are sub-human or that Muslims are the enemy, etc. It created a form of cognitive dissonance that I couldn’t reconcile. I learned the Scriptures from a young age, I knew the hymns and the songs we sung, I had those words impressed upon me and I couldn’t reconcile what I was seeing with what I knew to be true of the God who sent His Son to die for me and for everyone.
What I’ve continued to observe since then is increasing polarization. Republicans and Democrats could sit at the same family table and deeply disagree and argue, but they’d be at the same table.
I think using terms like “woke-ism” is an example of something deeply unhelpful. The concept of “woke” originated among African Americans addressing issues of systemic racial injustice. But the term has now become a catch-all for almost anything. I don’t even know if “woke” means anything, though the rhetoric of a “woke mind virus” has become a major buzz term in some political circles. At the heart of it, however, is really just a recognition that there is corruption of power in high places which does treat certain people unjustly, and that society ought to be ordered in a just and equitable way.
I guess I don’t know what they way forward is. The only way forward I can see is one that involves both justice and mercy. There needs to be more mercy; because the current state of things is pretty merciless all around. And justice means, ultimately, the righting of wrongs and setting things into a state of reconciliation and equity.
I believe the Church has been granted an unprecedented opportunity to be a vanguard to preach justice and mercy and to do justice and do mercy–to be at the front lines of healing the wounds, speaking truth to power, and reconciling us together. Because the Church preaches Jesus Christ, He is her Lord and Head, she is His Body. And to be faithful to Christ means not only confessing with our mouth His Lordship in the world, but believing in our heart and living our lives with His Lordship over us.
I don’t know about how to fix society.
But the pathway forward for the Church can only be found in the Gospel.
Thank you for sharng this Brother. I was in Highschool when 9/11 occured, and have since, like you, noticed the shift in language (and attitudes and behaviors) towards those of the muslim faith. Espcially since the area I grew up in was quite diverse, Christans, Catholic, Jews and Muslims mainly - All Abrahamic Religons - and we used to compare the simiularities(?) that our faiths share. That ended after 9/11 in an unspoken agreement that I wasn’t privy to. Almost as if it just “fell out of fashion” and no one told me.
Us being Abrahamic religions, we were also taught that fundamental “created in God’s image and deserving of love, kindness, and respect portion that you were,” still, we drifted away from the mutuality In our religions due to that cultural shift. Our unoffical friendship was killed by cultural shifts on all sides.
This is truth, but hard to put into practice when all sides feel threatened by the other. An olive branch must be extended by one side or the other and talks must take place between those concerned for a reconciliation to take place, without inpediments such as Political Correctness to stumble over along the way. Otherwise, those dark forces win.
Divided parties set bad examples and bad precedents, and when it comes to politcs, I, like all others, have my opinions. When it boils down to it, I feel we ALL need to be indepndents. Never going with the flow just because we’re with a party. Instead we should proceed with Biblical guidance and rational logical thought… wishfull thinking, I know.
I agree, which is why I use it as an example of what we need to navigate by adapting. You don’t need to comform to it to be able to “evolve” past it. It is a part of what is poisoning the minds of people today. It has taken on a life of its own. Even it’s orignator has said he no longer recognizes it from what it was intended to be.
I concur, which is why I believe we need to adapt to (not conform to) dealing with the issue of Political Correctness, and other culture shifts.
Let’s explore that. How can the Church forge a path through a cultural minefield of politcal correctness? Any verses come to mind my Brother?
In Romans 12, the Apostle writes,
Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good. Love one another with brotherly affection. Outdo one another in showing honor. Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord. Rejoice in hope, be patient in tribulation, be constant in prayer. Contribute to the needs of the saints and seek to show hospitality.
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
This is just one example of course. But I think it’s a good place to start.
I remember a sermon by Martin Luther King Jr, The Drum Major Instinct.
In the sermon it addresses when James and John came to Jesus privately and asked that they sit on His right and left when He comes into His kingdom. What follows is, naturally, the erroneous thinking the brothers had about what sort of kingdom Jesus was about. But King ends up saying,
Yes, Jesus, I want to be on your right or your left side, (Yes) not for any selfish reason. I want to be on your right or your left side, not in terms of some political kingdom or ambition. But I just want to be there in love and in justice and in truth and in commitment to others, so that we can make of this old world a new world.
Not having a seat in power, but in humility, in recognizing that the kingdom of God is about leastness, not greatness. That it’s not about having a position at the top, but at the bottom. Yes we should desire to be at Jesus’ side, but Jesus chooses not to rule from the top like a general or an emperor, but Jesus rules from the bottom as the Lamb of God slain for the sins of the world.
Our God is not like the false gods of the nations. He is a God who gives Himself away in love–even to the point of death on the cross.
The Christian does not live by power, but by the apparent weakness of the Cross–and the reality is that the Cross is not defeat, but victory. Because God is so profoundly different than what we sinful human beings think about what is great and powerful.
We stand with Christ, as we walk in weakness, as we serve, not lord over; as we stand beside the hurting, as we look to find the broken places, the shadow places, and be light, and minister with the soothing balm and medicine of God’s Gospel, of His love and mercy. So we forgive, so we show mercy, so we do not hold grudges, so we bless and do not curse. When we find someone who hates us, we lift them up with love.
So radical is this calling to follow Jesus, that it should be the most dangerous way of all.
Of course. We should love everyone and share the gospel with everyone. However, here lies the problem. We also need to call it what it is. Them who they are. Sin for sin, Good for good. You see, many use the Bible and false compassion to further their agendas. They try to silence the truth this way.
They use false compassion to claim all are equal. They are not. They use false compassion to justify sin. Live and let live. No, more like live sand let die. They use false compassion to say all religions lead to God. That is a lie straight from the evil one himself. We are all God’s creation, not all children of God. The only way to get to God is through Jesus.
Sin is sin. Right is right. The Bible directed us to cakk it as we see it. To “judge rightly,” To teach people and show them the error of their ways. Wokness is an attempt to block any of that.
Yes, we should go to the broken—the lost. We should love them and show them the better way. Yet we must be careful not to start justifying sin out of “love.”
Peter
We should love everyone and share the gospel with everyone [1] (~Matthew 28:19). However, we must call things what they are [2] (~Isaiah 5:20). Sin must be named as sin [3] (~Ephesians 5:11), and good as good [4] (~Romans 12:9).
Many use a false compassion that distorts truth [5] (~2 Timothy 4:3). Not all are equal in standing before God [6] (~John 1:12). Not all paths lead to God [7] (~John 14:6). We are all God’s creation [8] (~Acts 17:24), yet only those in Christ are His children [9] (~Galatians 3:26).
We are commanded to judge rightly [10] (~John 7:24), to correct error [11] (~2 Timothy 4:2), and to speak truth in love [12] (~Ephesians 4:15).
Yes, we go to the lost [13] (~Luke 19:10), loving them [14] (~Matthew 22:39), but not justifying sin [15] (~Romans 6:1–2).
J.
I don’t believe “woke-ness” actually exists aside from being a political buzzword. I’ve seen the term “woke” applied as a pejorative in online discourse for almost anything.
The current political climate, at least in the US, is built upon fear, hate, and anger.
Yes, we should call sin sin.
Singling out Muslims as a singularly evil presence in the world (just as an example), however, is not calling sin sin; it’s operating from within the value structures of this fallen and sinful world.
Yes, Muslims are wrong about God, no their religion is not truthful when it talks about how to encounter God. But your and my Muslim neighbors are not any more evil than you or I. To the extent that all men are evil because of sin and the Old Adam that corrupts us from within, sure Muslims are just as evil as anyone else. Singling them out as targets for aggression, fear-mongering, scape-goating, however, is no different than what we have historically done to our Jewish neighbors. A history of antisemitism that culminated in the Holocaust.
I’m not naive enough to think that there aren’t militant Muslims. I’ve met a couple in my time. I’ve been told, in words directed at me, that the things I’ve said and believe about God are blasphemy and I received a direct death threat (an empty death threat, this was online). Here’s the rub: I’ve also received the exact same thing from those who call themselves Christians. I had someone invoke the Lord’s name and pray that the Holy Spirit strike me dead because I told them I did not believe that they had the gift of prophecy.
Evil runs deep in our bones. Sin, as the Apostle says, is in our members (Romans 7:5, also 7:23).
I am not less sinful than my neighbor. I am not less evil. I am not more righteous. I am a sinner. Christ came to save sinners. So because of what Christ has done I am to submit myself, my mind and my body, to Christ–and bear the Gospel in my confession before the world and the working of faith through love. This isn’t empty sentimentality or vain toleration of all things; it’s recognizing the intrinsic value of human persons made in the image of God, suffering for the sake of the Cross, and having an answer to the hope that we have with gentleness and respect.
I understand you are not accusing me of this. However, your comment has truly affected me. Let me say this. I believe the hatred, which I do not advocate, is based on reality. For many, the primary cause for questioning Islam is the association between the faith and global conflict or terrorism. When groups use religious language to justify violence, it leads observers (and some Muslims) to question whether those actions are inherent to the doctrine or a distortion of it. This often results in a “guilt by association” that colors the entire religion.
In a modern, globalized world, certain traditional Islamic interpretations are often questioned regarding:
Gender Equality: Discussions often center on inheritance laws, the hijab, and the role of women in leadership or public life.
Freedom of Expression: Questions arise concerning “blasphemy” laws or the treatment of apostasy (leaving the faith) in some Muslim-majority countries.
LGBTQ+ Rights: As global views on sexuality shift, the traditional Islamic stance on these topics becomes a major point of intellectual and moral tension.
Like followers of other faiths, many people question Islam based on:
The Origin of Life: Similar to the “Evolution vs. Creation” debate in Christianity, some find it difficult to reconcile Quranic accounts of creation with modern biological science.
A universal philosophical question—if God is all-powerful and all-good, why is there so much suffering in the world (particularly in many Muslim-majority regions facing war and poverty)?
I often refer to historical aspects of Muhammad’s life and specific verses in the Quran and Hadith (prophetic traditions) that I find challenging to reconcile with contemporary ethics. This includes topics such as historical warfare and expansion, calls for violence and the death penalty for non-Muslims, and the fact that Muhammad was a pedophile.
I understand, at least logically, that not all muslims are hate-filled terrorists. Yet at the same time, if you read the Quran, it actually does call for hate, forced conversion, and or death. Then you look at England, Britain, and other countries that have allowed Muslims in, and you see the result. Muslims say the Sharia law will be in every house in the country. Or death to those who refuse. It is a fine line. I get it. But when the religion is calling for pedophilia, torture, and death, and no Muslim is standing up and saying enough? Then you have to question everyone associated. Not hate, just commonsense.
Peter
As a student of Church History I am forced to confront a litany of terribly ugly things which have been done in the name of Jesus Christ.
And I have, both as a student of history, and in my own lived experiences, witnessed ways in which the Bible has been used to justify an incredible amount of evil. I know that this represents a mis-use of the Bible, and you know that; just as I know and you know that the terrible things which Christians have done is not a true reflection of the religions which Jesus Christ instituted through His life, sufferings, death, and resurrection and carried on out by His apostles.
This is where I think we should be, however: When I, an outsider to the Muslim world, look in; how ought I perceive the Muslim world? Should I judge the Muslim world on the worst that has been done in the name of Islam? Or should I judge the Muslim world on the best that has been done in the name of Islam? How do I, as a Christian, want to be seen? Do I want to be judged by the worst done in the name of Christianity?
I have known many non-Christians who have experienced a great deal of harm from Christians. Jews, Muslims, atheists, Buddhists, Pagans, nones. Many have acted toward me as though I am, by virtue of my religion, a threat to their personal safety because of things which they have experienced first hand, and what they hear and see when bad Christians do bad things, bad pastors do bad things, bad churches do bad things. And they will speak of Christians and Christianity in the same way they might speak about Muslims and Islam–a religion of hate, violent, militant, fanatical, etc.
It would be easy for me to brush that aside as though, “That’s just the world hating me as it hated Jesus” but that’s just a pious sounding excuse for not truly hearing what people have been through–and if I fail to hear what they have been through, and that if I want to take Jesus seriously, I have to take them seriously too. This should be a place of grief for us in the Church, and something that sparks in us a greater ambition to follow the way of Christ. This doesn’t mean moral compromise, or theological compromise–it means real conversation that listens. It means sitting beside the ones that hurt, and hurt with them. Because the Gospel is for them.
So when we take a step back and look at this contemporary rhetoric about Muslims, are we being any better than when someone uses the worst done in the name of Christianity to judge you and me?
This does not mean we ignore or pretend the real threat of militant fanatics isn’t real; because I have seen and heard Muslims speak openly against terrorism and the use of their religion for hate. When Muslim women protest for the right to speak and be heard in nations where women are told to be silent, they are denying an interpretation of their religion that says women are lesser, and advocating for an interpretation of their religion which says women deserve equality and justice all the same as men. When Muslims protest harsh and cruel tyrants, and their governments come up against them, that isn’t just speaking loudly, it’s putting their lives on the line. When Muslims in the West condemn Muslim leaders who call for violence, that is the same thing as when we as Christians speak out against those Christian bullies and leaders who call for violence and hate in the name of Christ.
I don’t want to see us do what the world does.
There are genuine religious criticisms and disagreements and arguments to be had between Christians and Muslims. I’m not a stranger to those disagreements. What I don’t want to do is do unto others what I don’t want them to do to me.
I do understand what you are saying. I really do. But Islam IS a religion of hate and violence. It is in there bibe. There 'phrophet calls for it. They are on an active mission to enter countries, mostly illegally, and take over, forcing Sharia Law wherever they may be.
I understand what you are saying, but this is not equivalent to someone accusing us of being hate-filled, racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and hypocritical, simply because they want to continue to live in sin, do not know what the Bible says, or just hate the message. Ours is a message of love and forgiveness.
I used to think like you. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt. Does Mika at the gas station really hate me? Do they really want to blow me up? No. That is just the extremist fridge. However, as time goes on, and we see more and more Muslims disrupting daily life, making statements like “Islam will be in every house.” The FACT that they have been involved in many terrorist attacks, and seem to be positioning themselves quietly all around the world, is not hate. It is not a misunderstanding. It is not paranoia.
Why do we never see Mika on the news denouncing the latest example of any of it? Either they agree, or they are part of it. Oh, they may tell us one-on-one, “What? No, my friend, Islam is a religion of peace. These are just crazy people. Exstremist. Come on, my friend, do you see me doing this?” Meanwhile, they are preparing to do just this. Why have there not been as many examples of these things in this country? Because there is not enough here yet. Their time has not come yet. Although, look at NYC right now.
Yes, we should try to reach them just like anyone else with the Gospel. Yes, we should show them, like anyone else, the love of God. Let me leave you with these verses, and I just ask you to think about the facts.
“Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.” 1 Corinthians 16:13
"But stay awake at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are going to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36
The Watchmen on the wall, Ezekiel 33 and Isaiah 62. The fact that Jesus himself told his disciples this.
"He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.” Luke 22:36
I believe Jesus was never about being a doormat. Or an easy target that does not fight back, but to pray, love, and be ready.
Peter
DISCUSSIONS - COMMENTS
Yes, is a dramatic reality to wake up !!!, surely.
Perfect. Yes, it is a dramatic reality. We have to shout loudly and wake up the belivers who are still sleeping, something like when the shipmaster came to Jonah, and said unto him, What meanest thou, O sleeper? arise, call upon thy God-Jonah 1:5-6, take a look.
In fact, we the believers will not be excluded if we stand fast in the Lord. ->1 Thessalonians 3:8.
In fact, we are living in perilous time->2Timothy 3:1-5 and 4:3-4 combined with 1 Timothy 4:1-2, it’s very terrible, very terrible. And our Lord JESUS warned us : ->Matthew 24: 1-8 ->He listed several terribles events and signs of His COMING and of the END of this current world. And from verse 9 to 13, our Lord described the uncomfortable atmosphere or environment among the believers in the churches.-> But He highlighted saying "he that shall endure unto the END, the same shall be saved. Alleluia.
About the END of all things, Paul Apostle give us a wonderful revelation saying how the END will be:-1Corinthians 15:24-28 and 51-55, combined with Philippians 3:20-21 and Romans 8:18-19 culminting in Revelation 11:15-18.
Furthermore, I meditated on your wise words above, saying: “This is a call to Christian’s self-evaluation, urging believers to examine their spiritual lives and to seek a deeper, more authentic relationship with God.”
Perfect. Oh, praise the Lord for such wise words! What you have said, I see as whether it be linked to Matthew 25:6-10. Wonderful but also Terrible.
Our Lord said:-> Matthew 24:22 & 25:-> 22 Except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake these days shall be shortened. 25-> Behold, I have told you before.
Let us be prepared, or else get ready.
Revelation 13:1-5 combined with Revelation 12:3-4, two terrible and demonic Beasts. → Both will begin to work together very soon, in days to come, the Pope and the false messiah->(John 5:43-47),-> a false lamb, the dragon->(Revelation 13:11 and 12:9, terrible, very terrible). → In fact, all the world will be wondered after the Beast, and they will worship the dragon->(incredible / unbelievable), which will give power unto the MAN Beast(beast of sea-the Pope): and they(the world) will worship the Beast, saying, Who is like unto the Beast? who is able to make war with him?->Revelation 13:3-4. ->(Michael is able-Revelation 12:7-12).
The battle or the WAR is against three uncleans spirits like frogs. Why frogs? Revelatikon 16:13-15:->
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the Beast(beast of sea), and out of the mouth of the false prophet->(2Thessalonians 2:3-4 combined with Revelation 13:11 ).
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great Day of God Almighty.->(the Lord’s Day-2Peter 3:7-8).
And our Lord JESUS warned us, saying:->verse 15:-> Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.->(Genesis 3:8-11, take a look).
May our Lord GOD bless us and keep us, and give us His protection
Amen.
I think Christians should avoid politics at large
Well, sadly to know what is going on, and to try to make sure, (Vote( the person we best relate to is in office, we must be aways for Politics
To a degree. However, to know what is going on in the world, to try to make sure the person who best resembles a Godly Leader gets into office (Vote), we must pay some attention. However, we also must discern between what is earthly and what is Truth. The Word makes it clear,
“Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore, whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad.” Romans 13:1-3
Then again, we are told that God comes first.
" But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men." Acts 5:29
If there is a conflict in what the Leader says with what God says, of course, God is always right. We must obey Him.
Peter
Yeah, but I never trust any politician, they say sth before election and after get elected they deny their promises. Politics never change the World , Peace does. I adhere to Anabaptist theology , Christians must not become Secular Judges or Politicians.