Jesus, the Anointed Man—Not God?

Theology
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Thankful for the clarity and for drawing the doctrinal line in the sand.

This is exactly why I’ve bowed out of engaging @Mac directly. At this point, it’s not a conversation. It’s a broken-record broadcast of the same heresies: denial of Christ’s divinity, rejection of the Holy Spirit’s personhood, dismissal of Paul’s apostolic authority, and a self-anointing theology that confuses personal imagination with divine revelation.

When Scripture becomes optional and the gospel is replaced with mystical self-actualization, what we’re left with isn’t edification. It’s erosion. And every response just gives more airtime to error.

So if you’re reading and you’ve been tempted to “keep the dialogue going,” I’d encourage you to consider silence as a form of spiritual resistance. Not apathy. Not fear. Just wisdom.

Because when truth has already been spoken, and the same lie just keeps circling back for attention, the most faithful reply may be none at all.

Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.

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I encourage you to stay grounded in Scripture, not just human reasoning. Here’s why…

The Son of Man in Daniel 7:13–14
Text: Daniel 7:13–14 (Aramaic)
חָזֵה הֲוֵית בְּחֶזְוֵי לֵילְיָא וַאֲרוּ עִם עֲנָנֵי שְׁמַיָּא כְּבַר אֱנָשׁ אָתֵה וְעַד עַתִּיק יוֹמִין מְטָה וּקְדָמוֹהִי הַקְרְבוּהִי׃
וְלֵהּ יְהִיב שָׁלְטָן וִיקָר וּמַלְכוּ וְכֹל עַמְמַיָּא אֻמַּיָּא וְלִשָּׁנַיָּא לֵהּ יִפְלְחוּן שָׁלְטָנֵהּ שָׁלְטָן עָלַם דִּי לָא יֶעְדֵּה וּמַלְכוּתֵהּ דִּי לָא תִתְחַבַּל׃

Translation:

I saw in the night visions and behold with the clouds of heaven there came one like a son of man and he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented before Him. And to Him was given dominion and glory and a kingdom that all peoples nations and languages should serve (Aramaic: pelach) Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion which shall not pass away and His kingdom one that shall not be destroyed.

The word פְּלַח (pelach) — “serve” or “worship” — is only ever used of divine service in Daniel. Compare Daniel 3:28 שְׁזִיב עַבְדוהִי דִּי הִתְרְחַצוּ עַלּוֹהִי וְפָלְחוּן לֵאלָהֵהוֹן — served (pelach) their God.
In the LXX Greek of Daniel 7:14:

καὶ πᾶσαι αἱ δυνάμεις αὐτῷ λατρεύουσιν — and all the powers serve (latreuō) Him.
Latreuō (λατρεύω) is used exclusively for worship offered to God throughout the Septuagint and NT (e.g., Matthew 4:10: the Lord your God you shall worship and Him only shall you serve [latreuseis]).
The Son of Man rides the clouds of heaven — an act reserved for YHWH in the Hebrew Bible (Psalm 104:3: הָעֹשֶׂה עֲנָנָיו רְכוּבוֹ — He makes the clouds His chariot).

This figure is worshiped (pelach, latreuō), rules eternally, rides the clouds — all actions and honors of YHWH alone (cf. Exodus 34:14: כִּי יְהוָה קַנָּא שְׁמוֹ אֵל קַנָּא הוּא — for YHWH… is a jealous God). No angel or messenger in Scripture ever receives pelach or latreuō.

Answer to Question 2 and 3:
The Son of Man is not “another God” beside the Ancient of Days but is a divine Person who shares in the glory and authority of YHWH (John 17:5). He is the eternal Son who reveals the Father.
2. The Human-like Figure in Ezekiel 8:2–18
Text: Ezekiel 8:2 (Hebrew)
וָאֵרֶא וְהִנֵּה דְּמוּת כְּמַרְאֵה אֵשׁ מִמַּרְאֵה מָתְנָיו וּלְמַטָּה אֵשׁ וּמִמָּתְנָיו וּלְמַעְלָה כְּמַרְאֵה זֹהַר כְּמַרְאֵה חַשְׁמַל׃

Translation:

Then I looked and behold a form that had the appearance of a man from what appeared to be His waist down was fire and from His waist up was a brilliant light like glowing metal.

In verse 4 the text says:

וְהִנֵּה שָׁם כְּבוֹד אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל
And behold there was the glory of the God of Israel.

And in verses 17–18 this same figure speaks:

I will also deal in wrath; My eye will not spare nor will I have pity and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice yet I will not listen to them.
Notes:
This figure is explicitly identified with כְּבוֹד יְהוָה (the glory of YHWH), the same glory that filled the tabernacle (Exodus 40:34–35) and the temple (1 Kings 8:11).
No created being speaks in the first person declaring wrath and judgment as YHWH does: עֵינִי לֹא תַחְמוֹל — My eye will not spare (compare Isaiah 1:24).
The “man-like” appearance is a theophany, God appearing in human form, which anticipates the incarnation.

Conclusion:
This figure speaks as God, judges as God, is identified with YHWH’s own glory. Nowhere in Scripture does a mere messenger speak this way without qualifying: “Thus says YHWH.”

Summary of the Answer
The Son of Man in Daniel receives pelach/latreuō, divine worship reserved only for YHWH, and rules an eternal kingdom, He is not another god, but the Son who shares YHWH’s glory (John 17:5).
The figure in Ezekiel appears in YHWH’s radiant glory and speaks with YHWH’s own voice and authority — this is a pre-incarnate manifestation of the Word, the One who became flesh.
In both cases the language of the Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek excludes the possibility of a mere human or angelic messenger.

Supporting New Testament Witness
Jesus applies Daniel 7 to Himself (Mark 14:62):

You will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven.
The priests rightly understood He was claiming divine authority (they charged Him with blasphemy).

Philippians 2:10–11:

At the name of Jesus every knee should bow… and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Paul quotes Isaiah 45:23, where YHWH Himself says: to Me every knee shall bow.

In other words, these figures in Daniel and Ezekiel are none other than the pre-incarnate Christ, God the Son, manifesting Himself in anticipation of His incarnation. This is not a “different God,” but the eternal Word who reveals the Father.

J.

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Thanks, Johann for honestly answering the two questions, which I think isn’t possible from Mac’s point of view, that’s what I wanted to point out from these two questions.
When talk about a serious theological topic, we need to first look into the Scriptures, and here the Scriptures clearly give the answer. Johann has written it, that to in a clear and precise manner @Mac

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In full agreement here.

J.

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Thank you @Fritzpw_Admin.

“Who do you say that I am?” (Matthew 16:15)
The question Jesus asks is not academic but eternal. To confess Him as anything less than God in the flesh is to deny His own revelation and to fall into a false gospel. Here is the full biblical arsenal answering clearly and decisively.

What does it mean to be anointed
The Hebrew word מָשִׁיחַ māšîaḥ means anointed one. Kings like Saul and David were anointed. Priests were anointed. Even prophets were anointed. They were all consecrated and empowered by the Spirit of YHWH for their roles. But Scripture promised a final anointed one who would bear divine titles. Isaiah 9.6 calls Him אֵל גִּבּוֹר El Gibbor Mighty God. Psalm 2 presents YHWH’s anointed Son receiving worship and refuge from the nations, something forbidden for any mere man. To be anointed by God is not itself divine. But the Messiah is unique because His anointing reveals His divine Sonship already present from eternity.

Is Christ a universal title anyone can achieve
No. Daniel 7.13–14 shows the Son of Man בר אנש bar enash approaching the Ancient of Days riding on the clouds of heaven which Psalm 104.3 reserves as God’s chariot. He receives שָׁלְטָן עָלַם eternal dominion and יִפְלְחוּן pelach worship which Daniel 3.28 uses only for the worship of God. The Septuagint translates pelach in Daniel 7.14 as λατρεύουσιν latreuousin which in both LXX and New Testament refers exclusively to the worship of God. Jesus applies this vision to Himself in Mark 14.62 confirming He is the Son of Man who shares YHWH’s glory. No prophet or saint or angel is ever called Christ in this sense nor are they worshiped. The Christ is not a universal consciousness or potential but the unique Son of God.

Is denying Christ’s divinity just another sincere view
John 8.24 leaves no room for ambiguity. Unless you believe that I AM ἐγώ εἰμι you will die in your sins. Jesus claimed the divine name given to Moses in Exodus 3.14 אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה I AM WHO I AM. The Jews understood His claim and picked up stones to kill Him in John 8.58–59. Paul teaches in Philippians 2.6 that Jesus being in the form of God existed as equal with God yet took the form of a servant. Colossians 2.9 affirms that in Him the fullness of deity θεότητος dwells bodily. Titus 2.13 and 2 Peter 1.1 call Him our God and Savior Jesus Christ. Denying His divinity is not merely mistaken it is the spirit of antichrist as 1 John 4.2–3 warns.

Why was Jesus anointed if He was already God
The baptism of Jesus in Matthew 3.16 was not to make Him divine but to publicly reveal Him as the beloved Son and to empower His mission as Messiah. Psalm 45.7 already foreshadowed this saying God your God has anointed you. His anointing was not to confer but to manifest His Sonship.

Why does it matter
If Jesus were only a man His death would save no one. Psalm 49.7–8 says no man can ransom another. Yet Acts 20.28 says the church was bought with the blood of God. Only if Christ is God incarnate could His blood redeem sinners. Only if Christ is truly man could He represent us. To deny either is to gut the gospel.

Summary
Yes kings and prophets were anointed but only Jesus is the anointed one who is God Himself
No Christ is not a universal idea or potential it is the unique title of the Son of God
Denying Christ’s divinity is not just another sincere view it is heresy and rejection of the gospel

Key texts for reference
Isaiah 9.6 Mighty God אֵל גִּבּוֹר
Daniel 7.13–14 bar enash Son of Man pelach worship
John 1.1–14 the Word was God became flesh
John 8.24 I AM ἐγώ εἰμι
John 20.28 My Lord and my God
Philippians 2.6 in the form of God
Colossians 2.9 fullness of deity dwells bodily
Titus 2.13 our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
2 Peter 1.1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ
Acts 20.28 God’s own blood
1 John 4.2–3 every spirit that denies Jesus come in the flesh is not from God

Jesus asked Who do you say that I am Matthew 16.15. Peter answered You are the Christ the Son of the living God. That confession is the foundation of the church and the test of faith. Anything less is another gospel and cannot save.

J.

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First, we have to discuss about the Son of Man in Daniel and Ezekiel, so @Mac we need to discuss this first.
But, since you talked abt many verses
Lets take it one by one
I see you cite John 12:44-56 (“He who sees me sees Him who sent me”)
John 12:49, 7:16, 5:17, 5:19, 6:38 to show Jesus’ dependence on the Father, denying His divinity, the Incarnation, the Trinity…God forbid
I will give some
John 12:45 “He who sees me sees Him who sent me”
Jesus claims to fully reveal the Father, impossible for a mere human.
John 14:9 “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father”, Only one sharing God’s essence can make this claim because in John 1:18 we read “The only Son, who is at the Father’s side, He has made Him known”.
John 5:17-18:
Jesus says “My Father is working until now, and I am working” leading the Jews to charge Him with “making Himself equal to God”. His actions mirror the Father’s John 5:19, a divine perogative, not human limitation.
John 10:30-33, “I and the Father are one” the Jews sought to stone Him for blasphemy saying, “You, being a man, make yourself God” Jesus affirms His divine unity, not mere messenger’s role.
He is equal to God the Father.
The Incarnation
In prev posts u said God is Spirit, citing Matt 3:16 and Luke 17:20-21.
Scripture shows Jesus as God incarnate:
John 1:1-14
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.” Jesus is God, taking human flesh, not just indwelt by Spirit.
1 John 4:2
“Every spirit that confesses that Christ has come in the flesh is from God”. The Incarnation is God becoming man, not a man receiving God’s Spirit.
Matt 1:23
“They shall call His name Immanuel (God with us)” Jesus is literally God in flesh, not a human vessel.
I asked what makes Jesus different from Elijah, Elisha and other Spirit-filled prophets, to which I didn’t receive any answers @Mac.
Spiritual Transformation
U say transformation is instantaneous citing Luke 17:20-21 and rejecting progressive growth.
Can we look at
John 3:3-5:
Jesus says “unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” so here i see that Salvation is a divine gift, received instantly by faith.
2 Peter 1:5-7
“Add to your faith virtue, and to virtue knowledge, and to knowledge self-control” Transformation is ongoing, requiring growth in godliness.
1 John 2:27
“The anoiting that you received from Him abides in you…and teaches you” The Spirit’s indwelling initiates salvation but guides continual growth. Your rejection of process ignores scripture’s call to progress as in 2 Peter 3:18 “Grown in the grace and knowledge of our Lord”.
John 17 and Jesus’ role
U cite John 17:2-21 and 17:22 claiming Jesus’ unity with the Father is like believers’
Can we not ignore the verses
John 17:5
Glorify me…with the glory I had with you before the world existed"
Jesus’ preexistence sets Him apart from humans..@Mac
John 17:2
“You have given Him authority over all flesh” Jesus’ divine authority surpasses any messenger’s role. Your view @Mac flattens His unique sonship in John 1:18.
The Kingdom and the Son
You cite luke 17:20-21 and Matt 11:25 ti argue God’s Spirit resides in man, but
John 14:6
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me”
Jesus is the divine mediator, not a human example.
Matthew 28:18
“All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me”
Jesus wields God’s authority, not a messenger’s.
And check the response from @Johann on the Son of Man in Daniel 7:13-14 and Ezekiel 8:2-18, on how he explains it..amazing.
I think you ideas cannot explain Daniel 7:13-14 and Ezekiel 8:2-18.
These texts, the Scriptures themselves show the Truth, and the Truth is
God The Father
God The Son
God the Holy Spirit
Trinity

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Wow, thats very bold sir, @Mac, I will discuss about it tomorrow because its midnight here, but before leaving I would like to add that:
Not only that, @Mac.
Now you say Paul is a traitor, well @Mac:
You dismiss Paul’s writings as human ideas, citing 2 Cor 12:16, where he mentions “trickery”..ok now can we look into
2 Tim 3:16:
“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction and for training in righteousness.”
Paul’s letters, endorsed as scripture, by Peter (@Mac, note this as well) in 2 Peter 3:15-16, carry divine authority.
2 Peter 3:15-16 states:
15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Now, this proves that Paul’s writings are not trickery
Acts 9:15
God declares Paul “a chosen instrument of mine to carry my name”
If Paul’s teachings are “witchcraft”, you accuse God of endorsing a deceiver.
2 Cor 12:16, read in context sir @Mac
Paul’s “trickery” is sarcastic, addressing accusations from false apostles. The context of 2 Cor 12:11-18 shows his selfless ministry, not deception. Misreading this as literal undermines your claim to follow Jesus’ plain words.
Your selective rejection of Paul creates a fragmented canon. The Gospels written by Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are alos human writings inspired by God. If you reject Paul’s inspiration, why trust the Gospel accounts?
John 16:13 promises the Spirit will guide the apostles into all truth, including Paul, whose encounter with Christ in Acts 9:3-6 mirrors the direct revelation, which you yourself claim to value.
We’ll talk tomorrow
Peace
Sam

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Thank you, @Johann, for that clear, biblical presentation. Your summary lays a firm foundation: Christ alone is the unique Anointed One, fully God and fully man. Scripture does not leave wiggle room here. Jesus’ divine nature and atoning work are essential to the Gospel.

Romans 10:9 sums it up: if you confess “Jesus is Lord” (not merely a messenger), and believe God raised Him from the dead, you are saved. Anything less is not the faith once delivered to the saints.

So yes, when Jesus asked “Who do you say I am?” Peter answered “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” That confession still separates truth from error today.

Well said, and well sourced.

—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.

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All glory to our Lord Christ Jesus brother, keep up the sterling work.

J.

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@Mac, where in the Bible do you find the teaching that “God who is Love becomes your own mind” and “God who is Love is your own disposition”? What do you mean by these claims, and how are they different from pantheism, that claims we are all God?

Please answer in plain language so that we can discuss the subject.

I don’t believe that I am God and that as I become aware of that idea, I rise to a higher plane of consciousness, the way many pantheists believe. Is that what you believe?

Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit in Mary’s womb, had a mission to save his people as told to Joseph, was King of the Jews as the wise men said, fulfilled Isaiah 7:14 that he was God with us, and knew that John the Baptist had said that Jesus would baptize people with the Holy Spirit–all of these understandings that are before Matthew 3:16 in that gospel. He didn’t just come to realize his mission at his baptism; he underwent that action in our place, “to fulfill all righteousness” in us.

Mat 1:20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, “Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
Mat 1:21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins.”

Mat 2:2 saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

Mat 3:15 But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented.

What do you say about these passages, @Mac?

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How can you judge other people on the forum, @Mac, from their words? I don’t judge you, but God will, as he will judge all of us, as to whether or not we have truly trusted in Jesus as the only Way to go to the Father. Why is that one verse, Matthew 3:16, so important to you? The three Persons of the Trinity were all involved in Jesus’ baptism. What other significance does that event have for you?

However, Jesus was not “born again” in the same sense that true believers are, because he was always alive to God and didn’t need to become divine, since the Holy Spirit conceived him. We need to be born again, because we are dead to God before he makes us alive through Jesus’ resurrection (Colossians 3:1; John 3:5-8; Ephesians 2:1-3; 1 Peter 1:3):

Col 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
Joh 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Eph 2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins
Eph 2:2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—
Eph 2:3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

1Pe_1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Do you accept God’s teachings through the Apostle Paul, @Mac?

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Wow! I think this thread qualifies as living out 1Timothy 1:6, “fruitless discussion” It is by faith alone in Christ alone. “ As many as received Him to them he gave the right to be called the children of God. 1John 5:11,12. And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life. And this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life, He that does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
Also, rejecting Paul’s teaching is rejecting Jesus’s choice of him to establish His church to the gentiles and most of the NT. A different gospel and worthy of rejection and heresy. You cannot save yourself!

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It appears to me, @Mac, that you agree with the Bible passages that agree with your prior assumptions that you think God gave you directly. Some day you and I will have to answer to God what we think about him. If your ideas are from a different source from God’s book, the Bible, then your neck will be in hot water. :slightly_smiling_face:

Incidentally, after I have read many of you posts here, I have concluded that your system is a lot like that of a man I met once who was a member of the Christian Scientist group founded in New England by Mary Baker Eddy. Are you a Christian Scientist from that church, which has a Gnosticism-warmed-over theology?

If you are not a committed Christian with genuinely-biblical ideas, as it appears to me to be the case, why are you on a “Christian” forum?

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@Mac, I believe in the truths of the whole Bible, which God inspired:

Luk 24:25 And he said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!
Luk 24:26 Was it not necessary that the Christ should suffer these things and enter into his glory?”
Luk 24:27 And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he interpreted to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning himself.

2Pe 1:16 For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,”
2Pe 1:18 we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain.
2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts,
2Pe 1:20 knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

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Whew, that one took me a couple days to work out. I agree with @KPuff about 30 (lol) posts back.

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This sentence is completely unclear. Are you saying that Jesus claims to be “born of God” or that you are “born of God”? I suggest that you re-read your posts from the viewpoints of your readers, since you seem to be in too much of a hurry to make sure you are clear in your meaning.