Not as I will, but as thou will

Theology
1

Aramaic Word Study – Nurturing Love – Kasa

Aramaic Word Study – Nurturing Love – Kasa – כִ֣סַאֹ Kap Samek Aleph

Matthew 26:39: “And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

There is no love without pain.” Irving Stone

The other day in my disability bus I drove by the Olive –Harvey City College in Chicago. I asked my passenger who Olive–Harvey was. I was told that this college is really two colleges that merged and both were named after two Vietnam soldiers who won the Medal of Honor. Both died in action. Benton Harvey, Jr. died when he charged a machine gun position to allow his comrades to carry two wounded soldiers into a helicopter and PFC Milton Lee Olive died when he threw himself on a grenade to save his comrades. Both knew exactly what they were doing and they did not hesitate to save the lives of their comrades knowing full well it would cost them their own lives.

If human beings are capable of such heroic acts, then how much more is the God who created them capable of? This begs the question, if God is perfect in love and loves us with this perfect love, why did He hesitate to go to the cross as this passage suggests? Did He really have this time of indecision, worried about His own gizzard? Then finally, after a long struggle give up and say: “Alright, already, Father you win, I’ll go, I’ll go if you order me.” Ok, maybe you read this differently, maybe this passage does not trouble you but it does me. I spent 40 years of my life studying Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic so I could come to some peace over passages such as this one. So, you will have to forgive me if I happen to read my own bias into this passage.

Jesus spoke an Old Galilean form of Aramaic (not Greek) which scholars are just beginning to understand. When reading from the Aramaic version of the Bible, the Peshittta I come up with a little different rendering. First and foremost is the use of the word that is used for cup in Aramaic which is the word kasa. It is identical to the Hebrew word kavas which is also the word found in other Semitic languages that is used for a stork. The stork was noted for its tender loving care of its young. Legend has it that if one of the stork’s chicks died, the mother stork would resurrect its young with its own blood. This is the same word Jesus used at the last supper when He said that this cup (not this wine) is my blood. In other words, this nurturing love is my blood. The Semitic mindset of the disciples would have allowed them to see a little play on words in this context. It would be his blood that would resurrect us and restore us to a rightful position with God.

In the garden, Jesus is praying that this kasa (cup, nurturing love) will pass from Him. In Greek, the word pass is parelthato which means to avert, avoid, or pass over. But if this word for pass was spoken in Aramaic and later translated into Greek, it is possible the Aramaic might be closer to what Jesus said which was avar. Now avar in Aramaic is the same word in Hebrew which has a wide range of meanings. The word itself is the picture of a river overflowing onto its banks. You could say that it is passing over, but it more correctly it would be overwhelming. Yes, the human part of Jesus was not looking forward to the coming torture and pain but Jesus was not praying to get out of this situation but that this cup, or this nurturing, sacrificial love would overwhelm his physical body so it would not dread the coming pain.

Note in verse 37 it says he became sorrowful. That word sorrowful in the Aramaic is kamar which means to burn or kindle and is used for a burning love or compassion. As Jesus was about to make the sacrifice of His own life his entire being was filled with a burning love and compassion for mankind such that he said: “If it is possible let this cup or this nurturing love avar or overwhelm me.” The words if possible in Aramaic is shekev which literally means if this happens. In other words, Jesus is saying that if this is to happen tonight, then let this burning love, this nurturing love for mankind just overwhelm me so that all I will think about is this burning love that I have. Just as Olive and Harvey thought only of their love for their buddies when they faced their final moments, it was that love that helped them to endure the agony of those moments. It was also that sacrificial love that Jesus had for each one of us that helped Him endure such horrendous pain and torture.

I don’t believe Jesus sweat drops of blood over the fear of his impending torture and death, nor do I believe that the pressure of taking on our sins caused Him to sweat drops of blood, what I do believe is that He saw and knew at that moment the tremendous agony, pain, and suffering of mankind, He was so filled with love for each one of us that he could not endure the knowledge of what our pain and suffering were like. As God, he could not understand human suffering until he took on human flesh. Just like a mother prays that the suffering and pain of her child could somehow be removed from that child and placed upon her so that she would suffer rather than her child, so too our Heavenly Parent, Jesus, at that moment understood our suffering and pain and knew He could take it on. It was that knowledge and understanding of what sin had done to us and His empathy for our suffering that caused Him to suffer drops of blood. Being sinless Jesus could not understand the torment of sin. In that moment by taking on the sin of the world Jesus understood what the torment of guilt was really like.

2 Likes
2

This is excellent. You may have answered this, but please bear with me. I really appreciate the unconventional. Not for its own sake. But for when it has reason to be. I’m fascinated by this view. Perhaps you have stated this. But it is a bit unclear though about the passing of the cup. So, how would you see Jesus asking for that cup of love not be for Him…or in what sense then was Christ stating “Not mine will but thine?” Again you may have explained this but its a pretty novel thought so I am a bit challenged. In what you are saying what was Jesus will that was different than the Father’s then? Thanks and blessings

3

I’m not the author of this post. I get a daily email from Chaim on Biblical Hebrew studies. It’s free and you can sign up too, if you want.

https://www.chaimbentorah.com/2026/04/aramaic-word-study-nurturing-love-kasa-2/

1 Like
4

I will admit I’m a bit surprised. Usually, when someone brings this up, someone complains and says this is not possible. Seating blood is nonsense. Just in case anyone was wondering.

Commonly referred to as Hematidrosis or Hemohidrosis, this condition results in the excretion of blood or blood pigment in the sweat. Under conditions of great emotional stress, tiny capillaries in the sweat glands can rupture, thus mixing blood with perspiration.

This condition has been reported in extreme instances of stress. 76 cases of Hematidrosis were studied and classified into categories according to causative factors. The most frequent causes of the phenomenon were found to be “acute fear” and “intense mental contemplation.” So yes, Jesus, facing all He was about to, including the Cross, and perhaps Him seeing our fate if He does not, DID sweat blood.
Peter

1 Like
5

No. There is a distinction between desire and resolve. There is a difference between a natural human desire, such as the desire to avoid suffering, and a spiritual will, such as the commitment to a purpose.

When Jesus asks for the cup to be taken, he is expressing the authentic reality of human fear and physical preservation. When he follows it with “Yet not my will, but yours be done,” he is showing that his ultimate “will”—his governing choice—is perfectly locked with the Father’s.

It’s like a person who is terrified of heights but climbs a ladder to save someone; their feeling is fear, but their will is the rescue.

In traditional theology, this is often explained by saying Jesus has two wills: a human will and a divine will. The human will naturally recoil from pain and death, aka the “cup.” The divine will is the eternal plan for redemption. The “sameness” is found in the human will freely and completely choosing to submit to the divine will. They aren’t the same because they lack different impulses; they are the same because they reach the same conclusion.

Imagine two singers singing the same song. One is singing the melody and the other the harmony. In Gethsemane, the human “melody” hits a dissonant, painful note because of the reality of the cross. However, the “song” remains the same. Jesus’s request proves he isn’t a robot; he is making a conscious, difficult choice to remain in sync with the Father.

Ironically, many argue that this moment proves their unity more than any other. If Jesus didn’t have a choice or a different “feeling” about the suffering, his obedience wouldn’t be a choice; it would just be a program. By acknowledging the horror of the cup and then choosing the cup anyway, he demonstrates that his will is voluntarily identical to the Father’s.

Never forget. Jesus and the Father share the same goal, but Gethsemane shows the cost of that unity. The request to ‘take the cup’ is the voice of his humanity; the decision to ‘drink it’ is the proof that his will and the Father’s are, in the end, the same.
Peter

1 Like
6

Okay, you made me look it up. I didn’t know this was a real thing, just thought it was because Jesus was God in human form. (That will teach me to just take the Bible at it’s word.)

­

Thank you Peter for bringing attention to this. (I would have liked to make a lightearted jest about *sweating bullets* but I’m afraid it might get flagged.)

2 Likes
7

Yes, Jesus spoke Aramaic, @Bestill, but why don’t you study the Greek? It is the language that the Bible was written in and therefore the language that God inspired.

I believe that the Greek New Testament, especially the Gospels of Mark and John, clearly show that Jesus was both fully human and completely divine. Therefore, Jesus could be tempted, as the writer to the Hebrews says,

Heb_2:18 For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
Heb_4:15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin.

I think that the same thing happened to Jesus on the cross. Early during those six hours, he cries out,

Mat_27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?” that is, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”

Then, just before he dies, he has resolved the temptation to question his Father as follows:

Luk_23:46 Then Jesus, calling out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit!” And having said this he breathed his last.

8

I’m glad people are finding this article interesting. That’s why I posted it. For the interest of others. Take it as you will. Any disagreement is not with me but with the author.

1 Like
9

Thanks @Peter. This is the general evangelical view I believe. And it has made the most sense over the years. I was asking that question though in relation to the article. Like what that article would see as Jesus and the Father’s will as being perhaps different in the garden. Technically it would be difficult to hold to the view of that article, at least for me, without understanding how that particular view would see the differences between Jesus and the Father’s will. If that makes sense?

I just thought the article posted seems to be like of the scholarly leading edge potentials. 10 years ago I found myself in a place where sermons to me started to give me the sense that pastors are typically understood to come from the Masters level. Not all have masters, i just mean like in the sense of research approach. In undergrad we study what others put out there. At the masters level we critique and deeply evaluate the research. And publish to degree a formed understanding of a synthesis of what is out there. But at the doctoral level, the refined insights become a voice to include at the serious research level. So the research I see presented here, whether it is at the more generic masters level or a more refined doctoral research level perhaps (having the flare of unique approach with merit), when it comes out like this, I am intrigued. Because it sets unique views as a gentle challenge the status quo views.

As an example, in those years back then i came across a passage from Proverbs 22:6 that was pretty fascinating. Typically we see this as “teach them young and be consistent.” But some opportunities to get a unique perspective came up.

Proverbs 22:6a: Train up a Child?

So it is of this caliber I would see the article presented in this thread. From a doctoral perspective. This kind of thing is important to me because it had come to reason to me at some level a decade ago…would it not be best for churches to expose laymen to the ranges of very deep studies provided by the scholarly level? I would find that most enriching and edifying on a number of levels.

If i had it my way, lol, which won’t be occurring, I would love to see the church to greatly benefit from getting doctoral perspectives when it comes to history, archeology, sociology, customs and idioms, linguistics, language experts etc. And it would be great to see this for each verse preached…or at least each section of scripture preached per sermon. At the pastoral lay levels of teaching, to me it has seemed we have kind of gotten perhaps too cozy in a sweet spot of having our favorite pastors. Or even denomination. And let that be sort of our “go to” on where the beef is. But over the years i have an acquired taste and hunger for the deeper richer studies from scholarship.

Now i know that many pastors study from some scholarship and may include it in sermons and demonstrate it in their teaching. But I guess want i mean is not the occasional hint at this view, or that work, or those scholars. But really get a sense of some ways of thinking that transcend Western thought processes and patterns…as a means of understanding rich nuances of the word written in Eastern antiquity on some stable regular basis. And although this article would not suffice or quality as a way to facilitate an on a “regular basis” stature, it rolls on in casually enough to consider such beautiful motif’s might exist along the path for us in many diverse ways unexpected. If that makes sense? Blessings.

10

First, absolutely. It is absolutely fine if you want to deep dive, if you will, and learn at a more academic or Doctoral level. However, the concept you presented is flawed in a couple of very profound ways.

First, by doing this, you also must resit a certain amount of Pride. The “I’m so smart” scenario can come into play here.

Second, and the most important, is the teaching and learning of the layman.

“Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.” Hebrews 13:17

The Bible says. This scripture passage from Hebrews 13:17 emphasizes the importance of respecting and submitting to spiritual leaders. It highlights that these leaders are responsible for the spiritual well-being of the congregation, and their role requires both obedience and support. This tells believers to allow us, their leaders, to minister with joy, as any resistance or negativity will ultimately be detrimental to their own spiritual growth. These will not be tolerated. Therefore, do whatever we tell you.

Does it really say that?

Or if I say something like, “The Elect possess an advantage over those who are not elect, owing to the foreknowledge and predestination of our Lord. All individuals are called to repentance and to turn from their sins. So states the Word.”

Do people that has neve stepped foot in a church or picked up a Bible a day in their life really understand what I just said? Of course not. So we must teach in plain language. Say with “speaking in tongues.”

"Now, brothers, if I come to you speaking in tongues, how will I benefit you unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or teaching? If even lifeless instruments, such as the flute or the harp, do not give distinct notes, how will anyone know what is played? And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?

So with yourselves, if with your tongue you utter speech that is not intelligible, how will anyone know what is said? For you will be speaking into the air. There are doubtless many different languages in the world, and none is without meaning, but if I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be a foreigner to the speaker and the speaker a foreigner to me. So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church." 1 Corinthians 14:6-12

As Leaders, we read this.

“Therefore, an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity, keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church?” 1 Timothy 3:2-5

As I said, you most definitely should learn however you want. The deeper the better. The more in-depth, the greater understanding. However, to try to relay that to some, it would be lost in translation.
Peter

1 Like
11

Thanks Peter. Brother, I would agree with the honor and obey those in the church over you is likely far outside the bounds of where they may err. What I have understood from the Lord is that even though I have had over a decade of deep research into how severely off the reformed camp is, because God transcends human error, there is still a blessing God wanted to give me to have been more cooperative in my reformed days. And I can see I would have benefited in so doing, amen.

The problem there is i have had a chance to watch the reformed camp enlarge itself in media which to me was super scarry ways since. Its is almost like i can’t escape them…lol. As an example, in how the leadership handled Steve Lawson’s fallout. I believe that troubled me more than Steve Lawson’s fall himself. Because i know the intricacies of the reformed camps. At least those in spotlight I was a part of. I bring this up because it very much does come down to some “sanctified” version of: Do whatever we tell you. That’s not to say they would not work with me and even try to meet me half way, which is nowhere near the likes of “Do whatever we tell you.” But since those days the leviathan like ego stemming from that org was way too loud to see anything more than some seriously problematic gaslighting going on. It is the gaslighting that operates in the flesh as leadership that is fleshy and will have potential to prick laymen flesh. It may surprise you that that was actually the sentiment and mission of leadership I was exposed to. “We will find your weakness, and you will be tested unto provocation so we know if you are holy or not.” At this point, that has far gone into another universe its not second nature but first. Because of how sexy clever it is to run ministry like that. So even with all that insight against a Leviathan size corporatizing of Christianity, it “behooves” us, I believe, to discern a little deeper while trying to also honor God in the midst of the madness, through maybe even problematic level leadership.

What I came to notice over the years is that much of the pastoral level preaching is the ideas of them. That is not to say we don’t get God’s word. Or that we don’t benefit from their studies. But my POV is not coming from a place to degrade the pastorate. I’m a cessationist. And the main forum I am on is hosted my a Charismatic pastor (a continueist). There have been many ways we see differently. But one thing that is apparent is that even though i have hugely varying views that differ on some of their core beliefs, the forum and the pastor know through tested waters that i have deep respect for them and practice honoring their TOS as they have laid them out. I experience zero levels of gaslighting in the 18 months I had been there. I have a tentative Church I attend right now but am likely moving soon, and I have always shown great appreciation for the pastor and thanked him for his views. That most of them make biblical sense. Where I differed on a major point i got into a disagreement over with my brother-in-law, only to see God showing me that i was doing the thing I was upset about. I was being that way toward my brother-in-law and needed to repent and told them that. In that though, it would not make what the pastor’s view on something to be correct. But it’s not as much about even whether he is correct or not in how it is I receive his teaching.

…..

That was my intro to say that brother Peter i understand I believe where you are coming from. The blessed place of love hoping all things and that you would have a concern that none would read my comments and perhaps have distrusting pastors as a takeaway. If so, I understand and can appreciate that. I’m an eschatological futurist and in that I believe we are in an era of the church in general under the paradigm of Laodicea. In general it is the church ruled by the people (where the name derived from). And i mean it in this feature far more than the obvious prosperity gospel types we might more associate it with Laodicea. But if we view how much the church runs on “opinion” and canvas a large swath random sample, we would be shocked. I just seen in general churches lean toward opinion based guidance. Some is very cleverly garbed in Christian speak. This is something i have come to notice not from a place of me feeling smarter. But me after i went to them for 30 years and am finding out now much later in life how much of that that was opinion. Things that even have to do with theology itself. And with that I am not saying the core tenants of the faith are off. No. Those for the grace of God seem to be intact, amen.

I don’t consider viewing the church through a Laodicean filter comes from arrogance though. I think actually it comes from compassion. Because if that is the state of a church era, it kind of becomes a banner of sorts to some degree or another (some much more than others, amen) be under. Which would include me. So for me its like rather than looking at things not to listen to at the pastoral level, if I understand a Laodicean like era is occurring, this would place even scholars under that ecosystem. For me i think it helps me to look for the best where i might see something others might label as “stay away from that one.” lol. So it actually ends up being compassion for me. Not that I know better. Because of how the theological opinions of others has caused quite a bit of trouble in my own life, its just a bit more important for me to, as somewhat a matter of survival, be open to diamond prisms that might emote royalty level truth not commonly discussed. Which is the esteem I would have toward the article posted in this thread. If you have time to read the article i posted (not to distract focus from this thread’s intent) it might become fascinating as to consider how those distinctions might raise a genuine spiritual eyebrow as to its theological import. Blessings.

12

@TCC

I really appreciate you sharing that history with me. It sounds like you’ve had to navigate some incredibly difficult waters regarding church leadership, and I can hear the weight of that ‘survival’ you mentioned. Your point about the ‘Laodicean’ era, where opinion often garbs itself in theology, is a sobering one. It’s a helpful reminder that compassion and discernment aren’t mutually exclusive; in fact, we need the former to practice the latter well. I’ll certainly take a look at the article you mentioned with those ‘diamond prisms’ in mind. Thanks for the grace in this discussion.
Peter

1 Like
13

Well said. Thanks for your understanding Peter. It was not until recently i noticed you with the badge as moderator. This forum here uses the same template that JD Farag had when he had a forum for about 3 years. The moderators there were really helpful (a fairly small community). I had quite different views than that forum, but was encouraged by JD’s take on Ez 38 in the late teen years of the 21st century. In any case it was a pleasant surprise when someone on our forum appraoched you as a moderator, and i had to do a double take. You have a rather family care sentiment about your posting style that is a great quality for moderators. Thanks for the reply. Blessings. :slight_smile: