How many Imperatives and Indicatives recorded in Scripture @anon42711693?
J.
The apostles used simple greek language. God chooses the weak and foolish things as Paul said. Im not an English professor, my friend. I humbly ask you to dumb down the language if possible. Thank you
But to answer your question, I wouldn’t know. The Bible is full of commandments, facts, stories, parables, proverbs, and prophecy. Do you know what’s not in the Bible? Catholicism, EO, WOF, Baptist, Pentecostalism, and many other such denominations and their flawed theology which causes divisions and offenses. The apostles would rebuke all these churches if they were here today. Arguing theology never helped me obey God. The commandments did that.
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If all churches are false, where is the church that Christ promised to preserve?
If all teachers are false, who are the faithful pastors and elders Christ gave to His people (Ephesians 4:11-13)?
If all assemblies are corrupt, how do believers obey Hebrews 10:25?
Scripture certainly teaches that apostasy exists, but it also teaches that God always preserves a remnant (1 Kings 19:18; Romans 11:5). The biblical pattern is not “every church is false,” but rather that faithful and unfaithful churches exist side by side, requiring discernment.
Correct @anon42711693?
J.
You are being rigid and legalistic with the scripture about not forsaking the assembly. You’re not understandingthe heart of that commandment. That scripture refers not forsaking the church that the apostles were teaching, not these churches we see today.
Paul said there would be a great falling away and that people would no longer endure sound doctrine but would follow teachers instead. He said that after he died wolves would come from within and outside the chuch and devour the flock. Why didnt God just send another apostle to keep that from happening? Because he preserved his Word. The faithful Christians will follow the Lord and his apostles doctrine, not these modern churches. Thats the church that the gates of hell wont prevail against. Its not a denomination and certainly not catholicism.
Please do tell, which ekklesia do you think is apostolic?
J.
Paul said that God “sent” apostles and teachers. Its past tense. He already sent the apostles. There are no modern apostles. That scripture doesn’t refer to modern churches. People always take that scripture out of context to promote their own flawed churches.
The apostolic church is the one in the Bible.
So you have no need of doctrine in your belief system? How do you study the Scriptures and to whom do you hold yourself accountable to?
If we don’t take into account the grammatical and historical context of the Scriptures that we’re studying, we will inevitably read them in light of just what we already are assuming. For example, and this may sound absurd to some people, but when Jesus speaks of being born again, or born from above, there are people who have read that as reincarnation, being born again, being literally reborn — a kind of, not entering your mother’s womb but entering someone else’s womb a second time, which was Nicodemus’ misunderstanding in the passage. So we need to understand the grammatical sense of it, the literary context, and in that case, some historical background would help as well. For example, the Jewish people when they spoke of being reborn, they would think of it especially in terms of when a Gentile converted to Judaism. But this is something that wouldn’t make sense to a teacher of Israel. How could he be treated as if he’s on the same level as somebody who wasn’t even a part of God’s people? But it’s like what Jesus says later on, going to the larger context, in John 8, he says that people are children of the devil until they become children of God, so a person needs to be spiritually reborn. And you could multiply with examples throughout the Bible because, again, everything has a cultural context and a grammatical context in Scripture. All of Scripture is for all time, but we need to also recognize the circumstances, the settings that it addressed, so that we can recognize the principles, the universal and eternal principles that we can apply to other settings. [Dr. Craig S. Keener]
We have to remember that the Bible was inspired a long time ago and many times, we have to know what words meant then. Otherwise, we won’t be able to come to a true meaning. God’s truth doesn’t change, but words can change meanings… When we know what it meant in the past, we can read a text and say, “Oh, now I understand what the apostle Paul said because I can understand the grammar of that time, the syntax, the sentence construction, the paragraph.” It’s vital to be able to understand the grammar of the meaning of the words from those times, but secondly, the historical context. These are books written in real history, with real people. Paul writes a letter and it is a real church with real problems at that time… Understanding the historical context and also understanding the grammatical matters of that moment will help us understand the Word of God much more precisely. And that is vital for the study of the Word. [Dr. Miguel Núñez, translation]
Since we all have strengths and weaknesses in the body of Christ, it is so important that we not study Scripture simply by ourselves, but we learn from what others have seen in the Scriptures. I think of several examples of this. I’ve done a lot of study in the New Testament. I’ve studied the Old Testament, I see the unity of the Old Testament and the New Testament, and the Old Testament coming to fulfillment in Christ and his work in the church, but I benefit greatly from my friends who have focused their thoughts and attention in Old Testament passages and can bring wisdom to bear on their understanding of the Hebrew text, of the backgrounds of the ancient Near East. As I look at a text that may be quoted in the New Testament that comes from the Old and I want to understand its original setting as well, I benefit in that way. I also know that I have my own blind spots, not just because of a lack of education but because I’m not fully conformed to the image of Christ yet. And I learn from the wisdom of those who have walked with Christ longer. They see things in Scripture. They see implications of how it applies to my life and to their lives in ways that I don’t fully recognize. So from that standpoint of my spiritual immaturity, being less than fully mature, I benefit greatly from brothers and sisters who have walked with Christ further. [Dr. Dennis E. Johnson]
God intended the Bible and Bible interpretation to be understood in a context of fellowship with other believers. One of the instructions we get almost sixty-five times in the New Testament is just the simple word “one another” — encourage one another and build up one another and lead one another, and so forth. In Ephesians 3:18, the apostle Paul says that only when we are in fellowship with other believers we fully really comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and the length and the depth of the love of Christ. So alone we can’t do it. We need to do it in fellowship with other believers. And then usually they will… I’ve experienced that myself sitting and doing Bible study in a mixed group of people, and it always amazing with which insights people enrich one another when they study the Bible together. [Dr. P. J. Buys]
Correct @anon42711693?
J.
Jesus promised the holy spirit teacher to those who kept his commandments. Paul, who teaches Jesus commandments, said if we obeyed Paul’s teaching and example then the God of peace will be with us. So God is my teacher and thats biblical. Forgive me friend but im a grown man who studied new testament commandments. I dont need a father like Catholics do. Im a full grown man and not an infant. If you want to have agreement with me then preach the word and not denominations or their flawed theology
Brother, I agree that the Holy Spirit is our Teacher. Jesus promised that the Spirit would guide His disciples into all truth (John 14:26; 16:13), and every believer must ultimately learn from God and submit to His Word.
I also agree that obedience matters. Christ did not call us merely to discuss doctrine but to obey Him (Matthew 28:20; John 14:15). Paul likewise instructed believers to follow the apostolic pattern of teaching and conduct (Philippians 4:9).
Where I would differ is in the conclusion that because God teaches His people, we therefore have no need of other believers instructing, correcting, exhorting, and encouraging us. The same Spirit who teaches believers also gave pastors and teachers to the church for the equipping of the saints (Ephesians 4:11-13). Paul told Timothy to teach others (2 Timothy 2:2), elders are commanded to teach sound doctrine (Titus 1:9), and believers are instructed to admonish one another (Colossians 3:16).
I am not asking you to follow a denomination, nor am I asking you to call any man your spiritual father in a Roman Catholic sense. I am simply observing that the New Testament presents Christianity as a body life, where believers learn from God and also minister to one another.
The apostles did not oppose denominationalism because they wanted isolated Christians; they opposed divisions because they wanted believers united in the truth. If we both desire agreement, then let us continually return to the Scriptures, testing all things by the Word of God, while remaining humble enough to learn from one another.
The key issue I would raise is this: the fact that God is our Teacher does not eliminate human teachers. Otherwise Paul would never have written:
“And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers” (Ephesians 4:11).
Nor would James have warned:
“My brethren, be not many masters [teachers]” (James 3:1).
The existence of false teachers in Scripture is actually evidence that true teachers also exist. The New Testament warns against the former while recognizing the latter as gifts from Christ to His church.
I have edited my previous response to you, see if you agree.
J.
Again let me say that God “gave” apostles. The scripture doesn’t say that God gives apostles. There are no modern apostles. Im all for discussing scriptures but only with people who dont follow these denominations, because those who belong to denominations twist the scriptures to promote their flawed denominations. They instantly argue to no end. I hate that. I want peace, love, and joy. I need that. Thats what Paul teaches.
Brother, if God alone teaches believers and denominational believers cannot be trusted, why did Paul command believers to teach one another, appoint elders, guard sound doctrine, and entrust truth from one generation to the next? Doesn’t that assume that God ordinarily teaches His people through other members of Christ’s body as well as through Scripture?
Just answer me this, and I’ll leave you be.
Shalom.
J.
You keep forgetting that Paul painted a bad picture of church in these last days. He said there would be a great falling away and that people would no longer endure sound doctrine but they would follow teachers instead. Thats exactly what I see happening. Even respected preachers who seem to be teaching the truth fail to teach the whole truth. For example they dont rebuke the rich like Jesus and his apostles did because they’re rich themselves. Politicians are leading people astray into economic complaints, strife, worry, fear and even boasting yet the shepherds are blind and mute. No man can boast in prosperity because it comes from God alone. But he also gives adversity and we dont know what will come next. James said such boasting is evil. Yet these church shepherds are blind to it and dont warn their flock. They have not earned my trust. I have yet to find a faithful shepherd, so I rely on the Good Shepherd to lead me.
Brother, I make no apology for holding to Reformed theology insofar as I believe it faithfully reflects the teaching of Scripture. Like the Bereans, I desire to “search the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11), and to “test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
Discernment is not trusting in my own wisdom, but seeking to obey the command to be “no longer children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine” (Ephesians 4:14). Scripture calls us to “try the spirits whether they are of God” (1 John 4:1) and to “contend earnestly for the faith once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3).
If anything I believe cannot withstand the light of God’s Word, then I am willing to abandon it. My loyalty is not to a denomination, but to Christ and His Word. Yet neither do I assume that all doctrine is equally true, for the Lord has given His church discernment to distinguish truth from error, sound doctrine from false teaching (Titus 1:9).
Therefore, let us reason together from the Scriptures, speaking the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15), and seeking the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace (Ephesians 4:3).
Have a blessed day.
J.
Im not a child tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. Im a full grown man who discerns the truth and i have escaped lust as well. Paul never meant for us to be perpetual infants needing a master our whole lives. At some point we should be discerning and obedient. And like I said, these shepherds are failing their flock. I did well on my own and I see no reason to become an infant again. Jesus promised his holy spirit teacher. As Paul said about the mature “we have the mind of Christ.” and “Who can teach Christ?” (Thats a paraphrase)
1 Corinthians 2:**12 **Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
**13 **These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the [d]Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. **14 **But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. **15 **But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. **16 **For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ. (NKJV)
Brother, the topic of this thread seems very relevant to our discussion. If I understand you correctly, the implication is that the rest of us are preaching the traditions and doctrines of men, while you alone possess the whole counsel of God without the possibility of error.
Yet Scripture exhorts all believers to humility: “Let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall” (1 Corinthians 10:12). Even Apollos, who was “mighty in the Scriptures,” benefited from further instruction from fellow believers (Acts 18:24-26). Likewise, Peter himself had to be publicly corrected by Paul when he was not walking uprightly according to the truth of the gospel (Galatians 2:11-14).
The Bereans were commended not because they trusted their own understanding, but because they “searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so” (Acts 17:11). James reminds us that “we all stumble in many ways” (James 3:2), and Paul says that “we know in part” (1 Corinthians 13:9).
From one grown man to another, rightly dividing the Word of truth (2 Timothy 2:15) requires careful study, humility, and a willingness to be corrected by Scripture. None of us has outgrown the need to test our understanding against the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:27), nor are any of us beyond the benefit of sharpening one another, for “iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend” (Proverbs 27:17).
If we are to have fellowship in this discussion, let us reason together from the Scriptures, speaking the truth in love (Ephesians 4:15), and esteeming others better than ourselves (Philippians 2:3), rather than assuming that all who disagree with us are promoting the doctrines of men.
In our age of “tolerance,” moral relativism is touted as the supreme virtue. Every philosophy, idea, and faith system has equal merit, says the relativist, and is worthy of equal respect. Those who favor one faith system over another or—even worse—claim a knowledge of absolute truth are considered narrow-minded, unenlightened, or even bigoted.
Of course, different religions make mutually exclusive claims, and the relativist is unable to logically reconcile outright contradictions. For example, the Bible makes the claim that “man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment” (Hebrews 9:27), while some Eastern religions teach reincarnation. So, do we die once or many times? Both teachings cannot be true. The relativist essentially redefines truth in order to create a paradoxical world where multiple, contradictory “truths” can co-exist.
Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6). A Christian has accepted Truth, not just as a concept, but as a Person. This acknowledgment of Truth distances the Christian from the so-called “open-mindedness” of the day. The Christian has publicly acknowledged that Jesus rose from the dead (Romans 10:9-10). If he truly believes in the resurrection, how can he be “open-minded” concerning an unbeliever’s assertion that Jesus never rose again? For a Christian to deny the clear teaching of God’s Word would indeed be a betrayal of God.
Note that we have cited the fundamentals of the faith in our examples so far. Some things (such as the bodily resurrection of Christ) are non-negotiable. Other things may be open to debate, such as who wrote the book of Hebrews or the nature of Paul’s “thorn in the flesh.” We should avoid becoming bogged down in disputations over secondary matters (2 Timothy 2:23; Titus 3:9).
Even when disputing/dialoguing over prominent doctrines, a Christian should exercise restraint and show respect. It is one thing to disagree with a position; it is quite another to disparage a person. We must hold fast to the Truth while showing compassion to those who question it. Like Jesus, we must be full of both grace and truth (John 1:14). Peter strikes a good balance between having the answer and having humility: **
“Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect”
** (1 Peter 3:15).
01.02 AM here, signing off.
J.
My friend, im not here to read a book. I didnt even bother to read your lengthy post. I’ll address the first accusation however. These denominations think that their church alone has the truth but you criticize me for that. Thats hypocrisy. Im not proud just because I refuse to submit to the false authority of these churches. Church denomination folks cant even agree with each other but you expect me to submit to their “authority”. Talk about pride. Paul himself said that a mature Christian who is spiritual needs no one to judge them. Ill leave you with a scripture. God is my judge and teacher, and as Paul said, teachers must be found to be faithful but I have not found your teachers faithful nor worthy to judge me. God is my judge.
1 Corinthians 4:2 ** **Moreover it is required in stewards that one be found faithful **3 **But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human [a]court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. **4 **For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. **5 **Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the [b]counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.
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Context brother, and I was not facetious towards you.
Co 4:1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.
1Co 4:2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found faithful.
1Co 4:3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
1Co 4:4 For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.
1Co 4:5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.
1Co 4:6 I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
1Co 4:7 For who sees anything different in you? What do you have that you did not receive? If then you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?
1Co 4:8 Already you have all you want! Already you have become rich! Without us you have become kings! And would that you did reign, so that we might share the rule with you!
1Co 4:9 For I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death, because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels, and to men.
1Co 4:10 We are fools for Christ’s sake, but you are wise in Christ. We are weak, but you are strong. You are held in honor, but we in disrepute.
1Co 4:11 To the present hour we hunger and thirst, we are poorly dressed and buffeted and homeless,
1Co 4:12 and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure;
1Co 4:13 when slandered, we entreat. We have become, and are still, like the scum of the world, the refuse of all things.
1Co 4:14 I do not write these things to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children.
1Co 4:15 For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.
1Co 4:16 I urge you, then, be imitators of me.
1Co 4:17 That is why I sent you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.
1Co 4:18 Some are arrogant, as though I were not coming to you.
1Co 4:19 But I will come to you soon, if the Lord wills, and I will find out not the talk of these arrogant people but their power.
1Co 4:20 For the kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power.
1Co 4:21 What do you wish? Shall I come to you with a rod, or with love in a spirit of gentleness?
Goodnight.
J.
I didnt fail to stay within the the context that im aware of. Good night.
No, my friend. You seem to be the one who knows nothing of the True God. All you seem to do is make a statement and reject anything that does not fit that little window of your false belief, with no receipts. Meanwhile made ignorant comments and took jabs. I have already proven you wrong with the Word of God. If you are not willing to learn, I can’t help you.
Peter