Sanctification - what is it?

[Corlove13]

@Johann

You say sinless perfection is “to continually remain in the teachings of Christ, by trusting Him.” But Scripture doesn’t define sanctification by ceasing to sin entirely, but by being conformed (συμμορφίζομαι, symmorphizomai, Rom. 8:29) to the image of the Son through ongoing transformation (μεταμορφοῦσθε, metamorphousthe, Rom. 12:2)-not instantaneous eradication.

In Romans 8:29
Comform is to make something like the other..I do not see where conforming has to go on forever.
I do not see you making a distinction that it must go on forever. After all there were 2 who walked with God and they were taken.

@Johann

περιπατοῦσιν (peripatousin)- present active participle , meaning a continuous lifestyle, not a completed moral state. Walking by the Spirit doesn’t imply never sinning, but that the orientation of the life is now governed by the Spirit, not by the flesh. The verb indicates ongoing conduct, not sinless condition.

In that case it also never implies sinning as long as you live.

Are you saying you can walk after the Spirit and flesh at the same time? Yes we should always be living in terms of the Spirit. There is no life without God.
Where do you believe training should take you? To being luke warm; half stepping?

@Johann

ἐλευθέρωσεν (eleutherōsen, Rom. 8:2) - aorist active indicative, “set free from the law of sin and death.” Yes, Christ liberated believers, but Paul nowhere says sin was annihilated. The aorist denotes a decisive act, but not an exhaustive removal of the presence of sin, only its dominion.

What does: there is no condemnation mean to you?
Does no condemnation mean you are sinning while walking in terms with the Spirit? No oooo

@Johann

Let not sin therefore reign (βασιλευέτω, basileuetō) in your mortal bodies…”
– βασιλευέτω, present active imperative, Paul is commanding the believer not to let sin reign. But if sinless perfection were possible, why command them not to let sin rule? That verb presupposes the possibility of sin’s influence, even for those who have been set free from its legal penalty.

1. Who says everyone there Paul is speaking to is a Christian, isn’t it possible that some could be on the verge of conversion.
2. Don’t you believe unto life
3. If we are saved by His death how much more will we be saved by His life.
4. If Paul is commanding it then you would think it was possible .

@Johann

And 1 John 1:8 dismantles your claim altogether:

“If we say we have no sin (ἁμαρτίαν οὐκ ἔχομεν, hamartian ouk echomen), we deceive ourselves (πλανῶμεν ἑαυτοὺς), and the truth is not in us.”
– ἔχομεν — present active indicative, “we have” sin: ongoing reality
– πλανῶμεν — present active indicative — “we deceive” ourselves: to deny present sinfulness is to actively walk in delusion

I totally doubt that: Seeing that again He could be answering to a specific doctrine that’s going around at the time.
All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Romans 8 tells us there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus who walk after the Spirit…End of Story !

@Johann

John is writing to believers (cf. 1 Jn. 2:1 — “My little children, I write these things so you do not sin…”) and still uses the present tense for both having and denying sin. If sinless perfection were a valid doctrine, this verse would be false or redundant.

All the scriptures you are given are for remaining in Christ.

He calls them children, that’s all.. Children can be tossed by every turn of a new doctrine.
He tells them " so you do not sin" which can imply they don’t have to.

@Johann

Not that I have already attained (ἔλαβον, elabon), or am already perfected (τετελείωμαι, teteleiōmai), but I press on (διώκω, diōkō)…”

Yes, He has not attained a Glorified body..but His goal is to live as one who will get one.

@Johann

You also implied, “Well, if you believe you’ll always sin, then you will.” That’s not faith, that’s psychological projection masquerading as theology.

Doesn’t scripture say as a man thinketh in His heart so is He.

Our actions are predicated upon what we think to be true…

@Johann

Sanctification is progressive, not absolute in this life. Hebrews 10:14 says:

“By one offering He has perfected (τετελείωκεν, teteleiōken) forever those who are being sanctified (ἁγιαζομένους, hagiazomenous).”
– τετελείωκεν — perfect active — Christ’s work is finished
–

Yes…And?
One continues to purify themselves by obeying the truth. Remaining in Him.

[Corlove13]

As Ricky says to Lucy..then you have some “Splaining” to do.

[Corlove13]

Hebrews 12:11
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

What is the outcome of training?

[Johann]

@Corlove13

What is the outcome of training?

Is it sinless perfection? Being perfect in Koine Greek is “mature”

What do you think?

J.

[Johann]

@Corlove13

As Ricky says to Lucy..then you have some “Splaining” to do.

Oh, I did, you must’ve just tripped over the grammar and faceplanted on the verbs.

J.

[Corlove13]

Share 1 pt. That shows I did…

[Corlove13]

@Johann

Is it sinless perfection? Being perfect in Koine Greek is “mature”

What do you think?

J.

True that is what telio means

JAMES 3:2
All of us do many wrong things. But if you can control your tongue, you are mature and able to control your whole body.

So you see a mature person is able to control the whole body. @ Johann
Still looking for where you said i Looked over the verbs and fell on tenses.

[Bruce_Leiter]

Since Paul says that he’s not perfect, I will never claim to be sinlessly perfect in this life:

Php 3:8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ
Php 3:9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith—
Php 3:10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Php 3:11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
Php 3:12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.
Php 3:13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead,
Php 3:14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Paul compares the Christian life to running a race toward a finish line, which will be resurrection perfection at its end to happen at our death or Jesus’ second coming.