Very well said Peter😀. Thank you for such a great explanation and response. Though there maybe debate over certain minor details concerning Christian theology, the major message, the salvation method of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins and of belief and repentance is non negotiable.
Yup. Kinda like when He said this.
“Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.” Matthew 9:13
Or is that too abstract?
Peter
What’s the matter? Are you feeling well?
I came not to call the righteous … - No human beings are by nature righteous, Psa_14:3; Rom_1:18-32; Rom_3:10-18. The Pharisees, however, “pretended” to be righteous. Christ might have meant by this answer that it was not the design of his coming to call such persons to repentance, knowing that they would spurn his efforts, and that to a great extent they would be vain; or, more probably, he meant to affirm that his proper and only business was to call to repentance such people as he was now with. He came to seek and save such, and it was his “proper business,” therefore, to associate with them.
This is the application. Hos_6:6 is quoted with evident reference to Hos_6:1; Hos_5:13 with Hos_7:1.
But go ye and learn what that meaneth,… צא ולמד, “go and learn”, is a phrase used by the Jews (a), when they are about to explain a passage of Scripture, and fetch an argument from the connection of the text.
So the phrase τι εστιν, “what that is”, or “what that meaneth”, is Talmudic, as, מהי, “what is it?” מאי דכתיב, “what is that which is written?” מאי קרא, “what is the Scripture?” that is, what is the meaning of it?
Our Lord speaks in their own dialect, and tacitly reproves their ignorance of the Scriptures; and instead of finding fault with him, and his conduct, he intimates, it would better become them to endeavour to find out the meaning of that passage in Hos_6:6 “I will have mercy, and not sacrifice”; which, if rightly understood, was sufficient to silence all their cavils and objections: and which words are to be taken, not in an absolute and unlimited sense; for sacrifices even of slain beasts, which were offered up in the faith of Christ’s sacrifice, and were attended with other acts of religion and piety, were acceptable to God, being his own institutions and appointments; but in a comparative sense, as the following clause in the prophet shows; “and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings”; and so the sense is given in the “Chaldee paraphrase”, after this manner: “for in those that exercise mercy is my good will and pleasure”, or “delight”, ממדבח, “more than in sacrifice”: and the meaning is, that God takes more delight and pleasure, either in showing mercy himself to poor miserable sinners; or in acts of mercy, compassion, and beneficence done by men, to fallen creatures in distress, whether for the good of their bodies, or more especially for the welfare of their souls, than he does even in sacrifices, and in any of the rituals of the ceremonial law, though of his own appointing: and therefore must be supposed to have a less regard to sacrifices, which were offered, neither in a right manner, nor from a right principle, nor to a right end; and still less to human traditions, and customs, which were put upon a level, and even preferred to his institutions; such as these the Pharisees were so zealous of. The force of our Lord’s reasoning is, that since his conversation, with publicans and sinners, was an act of mercy and compassion to their souls, and designed for their spiritual good; it must be much more pleasing to God, than had he attended to the traditions of the elders, they charge him with the breach of: besides, what he was now doing was the end of his coming into this world, and which was answered hereby;
for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance. The phrase, “to repentance”, is not in the Vulgate Latin, nor in Munster’s Hebrew Gospel, nor in the Syriac, Ethiopic, and Persic versions; but is in the Arabic, and in the ancient Greek copies, and is very justly retained. The “repentance” here designed, is not a legal, but an evangelical one: which is attended with faith in Christ, with views, at least hopes of pardon through his blood, and springs from a discovery and sense of his love: it lies in a true sense of sin, and the exceeding sinfulness of it, by the light of the Spirit of God; in a godly sorrow for it, and hearty loathing of it; in real shame and blushing for it, ingenuous confession of it, and departing from it; all which is brought on, influenced, heightened, and increased, by displays of the love of God through Christ.
The persons called to this are not the “righteous”; meaning either such who are really so, because these are already called to it, though, whilst in a state of imperfection, daily need the exercise of this grace; or rather such who are so in their own opinion, and in the sight of men only, not in the sight of God, which was the case of the Scribes and Pharisees, and very few of these were called and brought to repentance; but “sinners”, even the worst, and chief of sinners, who, as they stand in need of this grace, and when thoroughly convinced, see they do; so Christ came into this world as prophet and minister of the word to “call” them to it: which call of his does not suppose that they had a power to repent of themselves; for this man has not, he is naturally blind, and do not see his sin; his heart is hard and obdurate, and till his eyes are opened, and his stony heart taken away by a superior power to his own, he will never repent; though he may have space, yet if he has not grace given him, he will remain impenitent.
The Jews have a saying (b) of
"shepherds, collectors of taxes and “publicans”, תשובתן קשה, “that their repentance is difficult”.‘’
Now, since this was the end of his coming into the world, his conduct in conversing with publicans and sinners was in all respects highly to be justified.
Abstract to those who prefer sacrifice over mercy.
Yes?
J.
Half of these long posts I am not even reading because they are so irrelevant to the original post which I started. I am just curious, do some of you write these long posts so that you can pat yourself on the back afterwards and declare yourself the winner of the debate?
@pd2169637
Having received help and support from members of the body of Christ, it may be time to begin moving past the church hurt.
J.
No winners, no moral high ground, no triumphant party, only grace that overwhelms every human claim.
J.
Apparently you have never been hurt by the church so this comment was rude. But your theological discussion could have been moved elsewhere on Crosswalk forum. I began this topic a long time ago and forgot about it. And then every once in a while someone would respond with something encouraging, and I would thank them then move on. Suddenly on my topic people started debating theology. Start another topic to do that. I will be honest, in the beginning I was encouraged, but lately it doesn’t surprise me at all why people are leaving the church in droves. Don’t get on here and tell me to get over my church hurt. Don’t come onto my topic and say something stupid like that! Do you think your comment was meaningful or do you just was to keep the debate going so you can pat yourself on the back about what a fantastic job you are doing?
I am not responding to your post specifically just posting my frustration overall. We live in a society so full of lies. The person who led me to Christ was my brother, who also struggled with depression. He ended up taking his own life and in his suicide note was the following phrase, “This world is so full of lies and I can’t continue living without knowing the truth…”. This happened many years ago and not a day goes by that I don’t think about it, and now we live in a time that is even filled more with lies. And so I am completely disillusioned by the church and most of His followers. And so when I come onto a forum to receive some encouragement and most of what I see are angry disagreements over minor interpretive biblical exegesis, I am not encouraged. Perhaps I won’t post on here again!
I can only speak for myself. Sometimes I get long-winded, absolutely. However, I post scripture and attempt to make both Scripture and my point, whatever the topic, as clear as possible. Sometimes I can post like, well, this. Sometimes a bit longer (Smile)
Peter
Exactly my point. You “forgot” about it and here you are, still “hurting by churches?”
And still “lashing out?!”
J.
What about the encouragement you did receive from the members here @pd2169637 ?
And which church are you currently affiliated with?
J.
I agree that salvation is not complicated by God — but “faith alone” is actually a simplification Scripture itself never teaches.
The Bible never says we are saved by faith alone.
In fact, the only time those two words appear together is:
“You see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24)
When Acts 16:31 says “believe,” it is not redefining salvation into a single mental act. Throughout Acts, belief always results in obedience to the gospel — repentance, baptism in Jesus’ name, and receiving the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38; 8:12–17; 10:44–48; 19:1–6). Scripture interprets Scripture.
Paul’s “by grace are ye saved through faith” does not cancel out obedience — it explains the source of salvation. Grace is God’s gift; faith is how we receive it. But faith that does not respond is not biblical faith.
That’s why the same Paul taught:
• “We are buried with Him by baptism” (Romans 6:3–4)
• “Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins” (Acts 22:16)
• “Saved by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost” (Titus 3:5)
If baptism and the Spirit were “adding to salvation,” then Jesus Himself added to it:
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16)
“Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5)
The real issue isn’t men making salvation complicated.
It’s men reducing God’s full gospel into a partial one.
“Faith alone” comes from later theology — not from the words of Jesus or the apostles.
Salvation is simple, yes.
But it is never separated from obedience.
Grace saves.
Faith receives.
And true faith always obeys.
Anything less is not biblical simplicity — it’s biblical subtraction.
I’m truly sorry you were hurt. Church hurt is real, and when it comes from people who were supposed to represent Christ, it cuts even deeper. But it’s important to remember something Jesus Himself made clear — the church is made up of imperfect people in the process of being changed, not perfected saints who never fail.
If there were no hypocrites in church, none of us could attend.
Jesus said the wheat and tares would grow together until the harvest (Matthew 13:24–30). In other words, there will always be sincere believers and flawed people sitting in the same congregation. The presence of broken people doesn’t invalidate the work of God — it just proves we all need His grace.
Walking away from church because of people is like refusing a hospital because some patients are sick.
Now, that doesn’t mean every church is healthy, and it doesn’t mean you should attach yourself to toxic environments. The kind of church to look for is one that:
• Preaches the full Word of God, not just what’s comfortable
• Calls people to repentance, holiness, and transformation
• Loves truth and grace together
• Encourages spiritual growth, not gossip and division
And just as important — the kind of people within the church you should connect with are:
• Humble believers who are growing, not pretending
• Those who show consistent love and integrity
• People who pray, forgive, and walk in the Spirit
• Mature Christians who can support you, not wound you
Don’t attach yourself to the loudest voices, the most critical people, or the ones who thrive on drama. Attach yourself to the quiet faithful ones — the ones who serve, forgive, worship, and live what they believe.
Even in Jesus’ own group of twelve, there was a betrayer.
Yet Jesus didn’t abandon the mission because of Judas.
Healing often doesn’t come by running from the body of Christ — it comes through being restored within it.
People will fail you.
Churches will disappoint you at times.
But Jesus never will.
Don’t let flawed humans rob you of the community God designed to strengthen and grow you.
There are healthy churches.
There are sincere believers.
And there is healing ahead — even after deep hurt.