The church structure described in 1 Timothy and Titus did not exist in Paul’s time, which is one reason among several that scholars know Paul did not write them. Paul never served in a pastoral position. The fact that he repented of his previous persecution of Christians is neither here nor there in terms of what 1 Timothy and Titus are talking about. What they are talking about is the selection of the best of the best to serve as pastors and deacons. In my view, at least, if someone’s pre-Christian life had been notoriously sinful, he probably would not meet the standards set forth in 1 Timothy and Titus. If someone had been entrusted with the office of pastor or deacon and then violated that trust, this would be far worse and he indeed would be disqualified. You don’t go from “beyond reproach” to “fallen” to back to “beyond reproach.” The prostitute analogy is quite apt.
Yes!! That’s what I was driving at…well, I was at least trying to. My communication skills aren’t the best. Thank you for saying it way better than I ever could, sir. Thanks!
My brother was one of these leaders of the church (altho a small church) that had adulterous affairs.
He was caught. He repented. Publically shamed.
Twice.
Yes his church gave him back his “ministry.”
Twice.
Then he was caught. Lost his job for sexual harassment. Lost his pension. Publically humiliated and shamed. By society, not just the church.
One can repent because they’ve been caught.
Or
One can repent because they are truly remorseful and repentant. Only God knows the heart.
The period following each episode of being “caught” and “repentant” was remarked different. I knew from the start he wasn’t truly repentant but this third time, I believe he truly is repentant.
Will his church take him back after almost 3 years? I hope not. If he wants a ministry I hope it’s not in his church. That’s my take on his life.
I am sure there are others here who have fallen, truly repented and are still confused because of the consequences.
My question to everyone would be, doesn’t sin bring consequences or does Scripture lie.
and please forgive me, I am the new one on the block, y’all could be right, BUT< didn’t Jesus say get the log out of your eye before you take the log out of that persons eye? just saying that ,yes I agree, really not sure about the person, should we trust them and all? like you said Gal 6;1, we are to forgive them. I hope I did this right! have a blessed day.
3 strikes and you are out??? again 3 times I would seriously think on this, ask Gods guidance & direction, do we trust them, who was it in the OT fell because of adultery, and became the greatest king, I think he also murdered someone to get this woman, but God still used him.
The distinction that is being lost in some of the responses, it seems to me, is between a garden-variety brother or sister in Christ and a Christian LEADER. There is good reason the biblical criteria for leaders are so strict - they are to be GODLY, not “OK, he screwed up again, but let’s give him another chance.”
Hi there! First, I appreciate you joining the conversation and sharing your thoughts. You bring up a valid point about the need for humility and self-reflection when addressing the failures of others, as Jesus mentioned in (Matthew 7:5) regarding the log in our own eye. It’s important for all of us to approach these situations with grace and caution.
While I believe in the possibility of restoration for a fallen pastor, I also recognize that trust is a process, and it takes time to rebuild. Genuine repentance and accountability are essential, not just for the individual, but for the congregation as well.
We must balance our call to forgive with the need for wisdom. (Proverbs 4:7) reminds us that wisdom is the principal thing, and we should seek it earnestly in matters of church leadership. It’s crucial to ensure that those who lead are genuinely seeking to walk in integrity and align with God’s Word.
Exactly. I don’t think we should just shove them up there immediately after they say they’re sorry publicly. We should spend a long time in prayer as a congregation. Like I said before, God’s not going to lead half the congregation one way and the other half another. Great answer @ImperfectlyPerfectC. You have a true gift for communication.
