Thank you for your honesty and transparency @PeterC , I’m curious, have you ever read the patristic sources from before Augustine, and what insights did you take from them?
And I take it this will be your go to verses re “falling away from grace?”
Hebrews repeatedly warns genuine believers: Hebrews 2:1–3 (pay closer attention lest you drift away), Hebrews 3:12–14 (take care, brethren, lest there be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, leading you to fall away from the living God), Hebrews 4:1 (fear lest any of you seem to have come short of entering His rest), Hebrews 6:4–6 (those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, and fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance), Hebrews 10:26–31 (if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there remains no sacrifice for sins).
Other passages include 2 Peter 2:20–22 (if they escape the defilements of the world through knowledge of Christ yet are again entangled and overcome, the last state is worse than the first), Galatians 5:4 (Christ becomes of no effect to you if you seek to be justified by the law after beginning in the Spirit), 1 Corinthians 10:12 (let anyone who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall), and Revelation 3:5, 16:15–16 (the overcomers will be clothed in white, implying some will not).
These are not isolated hypotheticals; the grammar often signals ongoing potential, present participles, subjunctives, and warnings addressed to a known community of believers. They show the Scriptures expect vigilance, obedience, and reliance on the Spirit, and nowhere does the text suggest that mere initial belief grants immunity from apostasy.
This from Utley…
New Testament
This Greek term is literally “to apostasize.” The Old and New Testaments both confirm an intensification of evil and false teaching before the Second Coming (cf. Matt. 24:24; Mark 13:22; Acts 20:29,30; 2 Thess. 3:9-12; 2 Tim. 4:4). This Greek term may reflect Jesus’ words in the Parable of the Soils found in Matthew 13; Mark 4; and Luke 8. These false teachers are obviously not Christians, but they came from within (cf. Acts 20:29-30; I John 2:19); however, they are able to seduce and capture immature believers (cf. Heb. 3:12). Those who are seduced share the same fate as the false teachers themselves.
The theological question is, “Were the false teachers ever believers?” This is difficult to answer because there were false teachers in the local churches (cf. 1 John 2:18-19; see SPECIAL TOPIC: FALSE TEACHERS). Often our theological or denominational traditions answer this question without reference to specific Bible texts (except the proof-text method of quoting a verse out of context to supposedly prove one’s bias).
Apparent faith
Judas Iscariot, John 17:12
Simon Magnus, Acts 8:9-24
those spoken of in Matt. 7:13-23
those spoken of in the Parable of the Soils in Matthew 13; Mark 4; Luke 8
the “believing” Jews of John 8:31-59
Alexander and Hymenaeus, 1 Tim. 1:19-20
those of 1 Tim. 4:1; 6:21
Hymenaeus and Philetus, 2 Tim. 2:16-18
Demas, 2 Tim. 4:10
false teachers, 2 Peter 2:19-22; Jude 1:12-19
antichrists, 1 John 2:18-19
Fruitless faith
1 Corinthians 3:10-15
2 Peter 1:8-11
The unique situation of Hebrews, written to a synagogue of believing and unbelieving Jews (note esp. Heb. 5:11-6:8; 10:26-31; see Robert Glaze, No Easy Salvation and my exegetical notes online at www.freebiblecommentary.org
We rarely think about these texts because our systematic theology (Calvinism, Arminianism, etc.) dictates the mandated response.
Please do not pre-judge me because I bring up this subject. My concern is proper hermeneutical procedure. We must let the Bible speak to us and not try to mold it into a preset theology. This is often painful and shocking because much of our theology is denominational, cultural, or relational (parent, friend, pastor), not biblical (see Special Topic: What Does It Mean to “receive,” “believe,” “confess/profess,” “call upon”?). Some who are in the People of God turn out to not be in the People of God (e.g., Rom. 9:6).
I would just add that perseverance is as crucial a NT doctrine as is assurance.
SPECIAL TOPIC: PERSEVERANCE
SPECIAL TOPIC: ASSURANCE
SPECIAL TOPIC: CHRISTIAN ASSURANCE
For a good discussion of this issue from an Arminian perspective (of which I am a part), see
Dale Moody, The Word of Truth, pp. 348-365
Robert Shank
Life in the Son
Elect in the Son
I. Howard Marshall, Kept By the Power of God
J.