Today Not God's Original Creation

Theology
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PART 1

I’m going to present this, and I won’t debate it. My Christian brethren can go check it out per the Scriptures of God’s Word, and in the Hebrew when necessary, and make their own decision about its authenticity.

It is God’s written Word, but seldom if ever covered in most Churches. There are some Churches though that can afford a Hebrew scholar as a teaching pastor, and I have spoken with brethren who said they were taught it in their Church. When my youngest son was born, I met a pastor at the hospital where his daughter had been in a car accident. I showed it to him in Bible Scripture, and he turned to me and said, “No man showed me that, GOD… showed me that!” He said it twice. I then asked if he taught it in his Church, and he said no, because only about a quarter of the congregation would understand. I then asked what about that one quarter, don’t they have a right to know? I got back silence. I’m offering to do this here because I know some brethren here are wondering about this “strong meat” topic because of hints of it in their Bible study. Those are the one quarter that are given to understand it. And this will definitely require one to have a new bottle that will allow expansion of the newly fermenting wine of this, lest their bottle breaks because of being stuck on men’s milk traditions (Matt.9:17).

A Type Summary Of Events:

  1. This present earth world age is actually a 2nd world earth age. There are a total of three world earth ages mentioned in God’s written Word. The previous world earth age was when God originally made His creation, and it was a perfect creation, and the time when He created Lucifer perfect in his ways when Lucifer as a covering cherub was serving God right there at His Throne (Ezekiel 28 with God using the “king of Tyrus” as a type for Lucifer in that old world.)

  2. That 1st earth world age was not one of flesh man. It was an angelic existence, and nations and cities existed in that 1st earth age. And God’s Garden of Eden, called Paradise in the Greek Septuagint Old Testament, was here, upon this earth, literally, and covered the whole earth. We can see that God’s Garden of Eden was still upon this earth at Genesis 2 prior to Adam and Eve’s sin. After the sin is when God removed His Paradise where it is now, invisible behind a veil in another dimension, the Heavenly dimension. Yet per Revelation 21, God said He is coming back to earth to live with us, forever.

  3. According to Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 3, God is going to literal destroy man’s works off this earth on the “day of the Lord.” That is the day our Lord Jesus returns to this earth, the last day of this present 2nd world earth age. And that destruction upon the earth is to happen from God’s consuming fire. Per Hebrews 12:25-29, God is going to shake this ancient earth ‘once more’, but not just this earth, but also Heaven. That Hebrews Scripture is comparing the coming final shaking of this earth with one like it that happened before, which has never happened during this present world time. Ask yourself when did He first shake this earth? Paul was quoting from the Old Testament prophet Haggai.

Did you know that there is about a 90 mile error between true geographical north and magnetic north? Aircraft pilots are well familiar with this, because when flying over long distances the aircraft compass must be corrected to make up for it, and they used the old saying, “east is least, and west is best”, means a correction of 6 degrees heading east, and a correction of 8 degrees heading west. God once shook this ancient earth, and it tilted on its axis. And that happened prior to His creation of flesh man in His Garden.

  1. The woolly mammoths discovered buried frozen in the ice in the Arctic still had green vegetation undecayed in their mouth and in their stomach. That points to an ‘instant’ freeze, not one over time. It also means they were caught in an open green field grazing. This still baffles geologists and scientists today, but it shouldn’t baffle those in Christ Jesus, because it points to God’s destruction of that original 1st earth age when He trembled this ancient earth that contributed to the end of Lucifer’s rebellion in that old world.

  2. Tropical plant and animal fossils have been found at both of the earth’s Poles. Not a popular subject, especially with the National Geographic folks. And modern science tries to explain it away by claiming the earth’s land crusts shifted over time, like extremist ideas like the South American continent was once where the Arctic is, and visa versa. Just the fact that the woolly mammoth found in the Arctic had been frozen instantly while grazing in a green field ought to prove their earth crust theory as false, for the freezing of the mammoth could not have happened in the warmer section of the earth and then over thousands of years move north to the Arctic. The vegetation in the mammoth’s mouth and stomach would have shown decay if that were true, so that’s one simply way to know that scientists just made up their crust shift theories.

(Continued…)

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(Continued…)

  1. Tropical plant life, like the petrified forest (actually fossilized palm tree stumps) in New Mexico, have been found in the earth’s desert areas. Geologists do recognize that today’s desert areas were once rain forest tropical climates. A Dr. Robert Schoch, professor of geology at Boston University, was asked to determine the weathering on the Great Sphinx and its enclosure. No geologist has ever looked at it scientifically before. Dr. Schoch discovered that the weathering on the Great Sphinx enclosure, where the rocks have a smooth surface wear, was by water erosion, and not by sand erosion. And it had to have happened over a long period of time in a rainy type climate. Thing is, the Sahara desert there has not been a tropical climate since the last Ice Age, the geologists claim. What this means is that the Egyptians did not really build the Great Sphinx. The tropical weathering reveals the Sphinx goes back to at least 9,000 B.C. or even further, per Dr. Schoch (See Forgotten Civilization by Dr. Schoch). Egyptian history only goes back to around 3100 B.C. Likewise, with the Great Pyramid, no Egyptian markings were ever originally in the Pyramid. An Egyptian cartouche was added by the Egyptians later in the Queen’s Chamber, but it was not originally there (see Peter Tompkin’s Secrets Of the Great Pyramid).

  2. To this day there have been found ancient buried civilizations which exhibited highly advanced technologies that today’s engineering cannot match using the assumed materials of the time. One such place is called Gobekli Tepe in Turkey. Dr. Schoch covered it in his book Forgotten Civilization also. Unexplained archeological artifacts like the Nazca Lines in Peru, which their design is only revealed from high up like in an airplane, the smooth multiple ton stone joinery that engineers today cannot duplicate, these artifacts I believe point back to that 1st earth age, before God’s creation of this 2nd world earth age.

(Continued…)

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PART 2

Thus begins the journey in God’s written Word.

Gen 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth.

STOP. The above verse is traditionally assumed to mean a short summary statement, with the details following in the next verses. That is not… what the Scripture means though. The above beginning creation by God is actually about His ORIGINAL PERFECT creation of the earth, PRIOR to Lucifer’s rebellion. It was a time that included Lucifer serving God at His Throne and having been created perfect in his ways per the Ezekiel 28 parable from God.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
KJV

The verse above is traditionally understood to be about the earth before it was created, as if it were in a gaseous nebula state swirling around in space without shape or form, which is how that “without form, and void” phrase is normally understood. But that is NOT the actual meaning per the Hebrew words for “without form, and void”.

The actual Hebrew words for “without form, and void” is the phrase tohu va bohu. Note Dr. Strong’s definition of those Hebrew words…

OT:8414 tohuw (to’-hoo); from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain:
KJV - confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
(Biblesoft’s New Exhaustive Strong’s Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

OT:922
bohuw (bo’-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.
(Biblesoft’s New Exhaustive Strong’s Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006, 2010 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

The meaning is that the earth was already there, had been created back at verse 1, but it had become 'a waste and an undistinguishable ruin." (per Hebrew tohuw va bohuw) This phrase “without form, and void” (or tohuw va bohuw in the Hebrew), occurs only one other time in the KJV translation. It is in Jeremiah 4…

Jer 4:22-28
22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

God is rebuking the Jews at Jerusalem in the days of His prophet Jeremiah. They had fallen away from Him, and He was getting ready to bring destruction upon Jerusalem and the temple by Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon. God is then trying to remind them of a previous destruction upon this earth that He once did long, long, long ago…

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.

There’s that phrase “without form, and void” again, which in Hebrew actually means the earth had become a waste and an undistinguishable ruin (per Dr. James Strong).

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

Do you recall that I mentioned the Hebrews 12:25-29 Scripture where Paul quoted the OT prophet Haggai who was speaking what God had said about “Once more” that He would shake not just this earth, but Heaven also? That repeat phrase “Once more” is about the future shaking of this earth when Jesus returns, all the islands fleeing and the mountains being made smooth. And that is the level of shaking that is being compared to that FIRST SHAKING of this earth in the old world, the 1st earth world age when Lucifer rebelled against God.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

No man, i.e. no flesh man? And ALL… the cities were broken down by God’s fierce anger? That means we cannot simply try and apply this to just one city on the earth, but to ALL cities, which suggests the WHOLE EARTH received God’s first shaking back in that 1st world earth age.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

If you are beginning to understand that our Heavenly Father here is pointing back to His destruction of that old world, the 1st earth age when Lucifer rebelled, then this idea that the earth would be desolate, but that He would not make a full end back at that first shaking. He didn’t, and we’re here in this 2nd world earth age to prove it. But just how is… this present 2nd world earth age as for the condition it is in? Is it really a perfect creation today?

(Continued…)

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PART 2 Continued…

Here Apostle Paul is going to make a comparison between the corruption of this present 2nd world earth age compared to the future world to come…

Rom 8:18-25
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

That Greek word for “creature” is ktisis, which means ‘creation’ (Strong’s no. 2937). In a later verse here the KJV translated it properly to “creation”. So Paul is not speaking of animals here; he is speaking of God’s Creation.

Paul is saying God’s creation in earnest expectation, waits for the manifestation of the sons of God. And the meaning is about the future change to our “spiritual body” in the world to come. Thus the world during this present time cannot be compared with that future glory, Paul says.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who hath subjected the same in hope,

The Creation was made “subject to vanity”?? When did God do that?? You’ve already read about some of it per God’s written Word that I covered in my previous posts. Go check it out if you didn’t grasp it.

Oh, and by the way, that Hebrew word tohuw for “without form” covered in the previous Scriptures is also translated as ‘vanity’. Per Isaiah 45:18, God said He did NOT create the earth “in vain” (Hebrew tohuw). The earth became… that way, because of something that happened back in that 1st world earth age.

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

There the KJV properly translated Greek ktisis to “creation” instead of “creature”.

Did you know that God placed today’s creation in that “bondage of corruption”??

Think about that for a moment. I thought today’s creation was a Perfect creation by our Heavenly Father, didn’t you? a beautiful creation! Yet Paul says God placed today’s creation in bondage of corruption. Is that really true? YES, it is…

I remember growing up watching Mutual of Omaha’s Wild Kingdom. Every Saturday morning they would display wild animals in Africa, and they hardly ever forget to include a lion or some other animal of prey attacking another animal to kill it for food. Survival of the fittest was their hidden message. Yet per Isaiah 11, that is not how things will be in the future world to come of God’s Kingdom. The lion and the lamb shall dwell together, and the cow and the bear shall feed together it says.

This present 2nd world earth age is NOT God’s Perfect Original Creation. This 2nd earth age is in bondage of corruption. Nothing… reaches perfection. Like the movie Lawrence of Arabia said about the desert. ‘There is nothing in the desert, and no man needs nothing.’ Everything in this present 2nd world earth age decays and goes to waste. The only part of God’s creation that remains is this ancient earth, even though in a state of ‘vanity’ that He placed it in.

Now this next idea will require you put your thinking cap on. Since Apostle Paul showed today’s creation was placed in vanity, and in bondage of corruption, that must… mean the creation was not originally… in that vanity state. The Hebrew term tohuw translated as “without form”, actually points to something originally in a good state that went into corruption. (check out tohuw, OT:8414, in other Bible Scriptures)

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Our spirit inside our flesh body, it also groans for the release of our “spiritual body”, the body type of the world to come. That is the body which is redeemed, not our flesh body that decays back to the dust.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
KJV

If we still hope for a thing, then it means it has not yet come to pass. That’s all Paul is saying with those two above verses.

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Love the way you started this. I have so little time today; I will have to fully take this in tomorrow. It’s my birthday, and I have to go do the family thing. However, to start, I’m saying this: I’m right, and I will not debate; it is childish and proves you are wrong right from the beginning. I do not believe the Bible teaches a Three Earth Age reality, and I will explain, if not to you, then to those who are reading this, why you are not correct tomorrow.

Peter

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PART 3

Now we look at Genesis Chapter 1 again…

Gen 1:1-2
1 In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
KJV

Recall that I said the Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning…” was God’s Perfect Original creation, a 1st world earth age when Lucifer was perfect in his ways serving God at His Throne (Ezekiel 28).

But Genesis 1:2 is about the earth already having been created, but instead lay a waste and an undistinguishable ruin (per Hebrew tohuw va bohuw, translated to “without form, and void.”)

Some call this the Gap Theory also (there’s another Bible topic they also call that). What this suggests is that there is an ‘unknown’ gap of time between the events of Genesis 1:1 and the events of Genesis 1:2. Thus Genesis 1:1 is not a summary verse, but an act of God first making His ‘completed’ creation that was Perfect, and not in a state of ‘vanity’, nor ‘bondage of corruption’ like Paul said in Romans 8.

Something must have happened to cause God to end His Original Perfect creation of Genesis 1:1. Something did happen, it was Lucifer’s original rebellion and fall.

Note that “face of the deep” involving the earth that was already created at verse 2. And also that “face of the waters”. What was that about?

Ps 104:5-9
5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
7 At Thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of Thy thunder they hasted away.
8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.
9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.
KJV

Do you see that, “… the waters stood above the mountains” involving that laying of the foundations of the earth? That reveals those mountains WERE ALREADY THERE, they had been created back at Genesis 1:1 in the beginning.

And especially note the above Psalms Scripture says at God’s Rebuke those waters fled at the voice of His thunder. Do you recall Jeremiah 4:26 about the fruitful place having become a wilderness, and all the cities were broken down at God’s fierce anger? and that the land would be desolate, but said He would not make a full end? and for this reason the earth (today) would mourn?

That is about God laying the foundations of THIS 2nd world earth age we are in now since Genesis 1:3 forward after Lucifer’s rebellion and fall.

(Continued…)

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(PART 3 Continued…)

Gen 1:6-10
6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

After Genesis 1:1 there is nothing stating God creating the earth. The earth was already there underneath all those ‘waters’ of Genesis 1:2. This means God used waters of a FLOOD to destroy that original Perfect creation when Lucifer first rebelled.

This “firmament” means the sky atmosphere around the earth. God is dividing the waters that are already covering the whole earth from His earlier destruction upon the earth per Jeremiah 4:23-28. God has destroyed the surface of this earth using TWO FLOODS in the history of this earth. The second flood was during the days of Noah which happened within this 2nd world earth age we are still in today.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

God then took a portion of those divided waters that were upon the earth, and moved them up above the earth to form today’s sky atmosphere, that firmament.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called He Seas: and God saw that it was good.
KJV

Then God moved the remaining waters left upon the earth around until the dry land appeared, meaning the earth was already there underneath all those waters, because He had originally ‘completely’ created the earth back at Genesis 1:1. There is no literal creating of the land with this 9th verse. This act is instead God repairing the waste and undistinguishable ruin condition of the creation that He caused back sometime between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, because of Lucifer’s rebellion against Him.

(Notice I use the name Lucifer here for when he was perfect in his ways until he rebelled. That title is put for the idea of the bright and morning star per Isaiah 14:12. It is a name the devil used when he coveted God’s Throne in wanting to be GOD at his original rebellion in that ‘old world.’ Once the devil appears in God’s Garden of Eden as that old serpent, his name becomes Satan, which means the Adversary, showing he had already rebelled and fell.)

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(PART 3 Continued…)

This event of God having destroyed the old earth, a 1st world earth age when Lucifer first rebelled, using a flood of waters upon the whole earth, is what Apostle Peter was actually pointing to in 2 Peter 3:5-6…

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV

When did God create the earth, with that, “by the word of God the heavens were of old”? That was in the beginning, at Genesis 1:1; God spoke and His complete Perfect original creation came into existence. Thus Peter could not have been talking about the flood of Noah’s day with that earth standing in and out of the water.

Peter is referring to the earth standing out of the water and in the water when God made the dry land appear, again, per Genesis 1:9.

And Peter then said by that… FLOOD of waters, the time “of old” (1st earth age), being overflowed with water, that old world perished. That is when God placed His original Perfect creation in “bondage of corruption”, like Apostle Paul pointed to in Romans 8. And remember, God said in Isaiah 45:18 that He did NOT create the earth “in vain” (Hebrew tohuw, rendered as “without form.” in Genesis 1:2).

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PART 4

When Lucifer first rebelled against God in coveting God’s Throne, because he wants to be God and worshiped as God, he drew one third of the angels into rebellion with him, as written…

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

That “stars” is put for angels there (See also end of Rev.1 where Jesus referred to the seven angels over the seven Churches as seven stars.) That title “dragon” we are told is another name for Satan per Rev.12:9.

Just when… did that “dragon” draw those one third of the angels to earth in rebellion with him? It certainly was not… during the time of Adam and Eve in God’s Garden, because by that time he appears as Satan, already in his role as the adversary against God and His children. It had to have been PRIOR… to the time of God having formed the man Adam in His Garden. And it was, even back in that ‘old world’ (1st earth age) when the devil was originally created perfect in his ways, and served God at His Throne.

Now then, did you notice that old world beast kingdom mentioned in the above verse 3 along with that? It had seven heads and ten horns, but only SEVEN CROWNS. You probably thought that was pointing to the beast kingdom mentioned in the next Revelation 13:1 Chapter, but it instead is to have “ten crowns” instead of seven. I missed this small distinction for a long time, and it matters, because that seven crown beast is mentioned within the timing of Lucifer’s original rebellion and fall.

What does that ultimately mean, that Lucifer also used a beast kingdom upon this earth in that ‘old world’ (1st earth age) when he first rebelled in coveting God’s Throne? Understand the answer to that per God’s written Word, and you may begin to understand why God’s Word is actually pointing to Satan himself coming as the future Antichrist/false-Messiah to Jerusalem at the end of this world, to play our Lord Jesus Christ.

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Ok, let’s talk about it. You are presenting a classic framework known as “Gap Theory,” Specifically the “Pre-Adamic Earth Age” or “Ruine-Reconstruction” theory, popularized by authors like C.I. Scofield, George Hawkins Pember, and Arnold Murray of the Shepherd’s Chapel.

However, your textual interpretation strays from standard biblical hermeneutics. Let’s look at the actual context of 2 Peter 3, Genesis 1, and Revelation 12.

You claim that Peter cannot be talking about Noah’s flood because he uses the phrase “the heavens were of old” and describes the earth “standing out of the water and in the water” (Gen 1:9). You claim this proves a “1st Earth Age” flood destroyed an original pre-Adamic creation.

Sorry, but in 2 Peter 3, Peter is answering scoffers who ask, “Where is the promise of his coming? For… all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation” in verse 4. Peter refutes them by reminding them that the world has been destroyed by water once before.

Just one chapter earlier, Peter explicitly defines which flood he is talking about: God “spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person… bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly.”

“Standing out of the water and in the water” simply describes the Creation narrative in Genesis 1:6–10, where God separated the waters above from the waters below to reveal dry land. That same water was later used by God in Genesis 7:11 (the breaking up of the fountains of the deep and the windows of heaven) to deluge Noah’s world.

Inserting an entire global civilization, destruction, and “1st Earth Age” between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 requires reading an immense amount of silence into the text that neither Moses, Peter, nor Jesus ever explicitly mention.

You claim that Isaiah 45:18 says God did not create the earth “in vain” (tohuw). Since Genesis 1:2 says the earth was “without form” (tohuw), Genesis 1:2 must describe a ruinous judgment that happened after Genesis 1:1.

The Hebrew word tohuw means “unformed,” “empty,” or “uninhabited.” Isaiah 45:18: Isaiah writes: "He created it not in vain [tohuw], he formed it to be inhabited." Isaiah’s point is about God’s ultimate purpose: God did not design the earth to remain an empty, unformed shape; He formed it to be populated.

Genesis 1:2 describes the initial, incomplete stage of creation before God shaped and filled it during the six days. Not a destruction following a war. Standard Hebrew grammar in Genesis 1:2 uses a disjunctive clause (waw + noun: wəhā’āreṣ hāyətāh), describing the condition of the raw materials God had just spoken into existence in verse 1.

You say the Dragon in Rev 12:3 has 7 heads, 10 horns, and 7 crowns (diadems on heads), whereas the Beast of Rev 13:1 has 10 crowns (diadems on horns). You claim the 7-crown structure proves a pre-Adamic “1st Earth Age beast kingdom.”

Revelation is apocalyptic imagery. The Dragon in chapter 12 represents Satan. The Beast in chapter 13 represents the earthly political kingdom/system empowered by the Dragon ( “and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority”).

In Rev 12:3, the crowns (diadēmata) are on the 7 heads of the Dragon, highlighting Satan’s overarching authority and claims of royal control over the worldly empires throughout history.

In Rev 13:1, the crowns move to the 10 horns, representing the specific, decentralized political kingdoms/rulers (horns symbolize kingly power; cf. Dan 7:24, Rev 17:12) that exercise power in the final era.

The sweep of 1/3 of the stars in Rev 12:4 is explicitly tied in the vision to the birth of the “child who was to rule all nations” (Christ). Connecting this detail to a pre-Adamic dinosaur-era kingdom requires total detachment from John’s immediate narrative about the Dragon seeking to devour the Promised Seed (Christ).

Continued…

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Romans 5:12 is one of the primary textual hurdles for any “Gap Theory” or “Pre-Adamic Earth Age” model. The “1st Earth Age” model requires that a complete global civilization, populated creation, or living ecosystem existed before Adam, and that this world was destroyed in a catastrophic flood/judgment due to Lucifer’s rebellion.

However, Romans 5:12 establishes a direct, cause-and-effect relationship between Adam’s single transgression and the entrance of death into the creation.

“Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.” Romans 5:12-13

In Romans 5:14–19 and 1 Corinthians 15:21–22, Paul sets up a strict parallel between the First Adam and the Last Adam (Christ):

“For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.” 1 Corinthians 15:21

If physical death, destruction, and judgment existed for ages before Adam, then Adam was not the origin of death. If Adam was not the absolute origin of death, the entire parallel breaks down: Christ’s undoing of death through His physical resurrection no longer corresponds directly to Adam’s introduction of death into the world.

In Romans 8, Paul describes the condition of the physical world. Paul explicitly states that the creation was subjected to “vanity” (mataiotēs — frustration/decay) as a consequence of man’s fall in Genesis 3, when God cursed the ground for Adam’s sake (Gen 3:17). The Gap Theory reverses this, arguing that the creation was already subject to death, decay, and violent destruction long before Adam ever set foot in the Garden.

At the conclusion of the six creation days, God inspects everything He has made:

“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good.” Genesis 1:31

If the ground under Adam’s feet was a vast graveyard of a ruined, destroyed “1st Earth Age” filled with the remnants of a divine war and judgment, the declaration that creation was “very good” (ṭōḇ mə’ōḏ) loses its biblical meaning. Scripturally, physical death is characterized as an “enemy” (1 Cor 15:26), not a feature of a “very good” initial creation.

Just some food for thought.

Be blessed.

Peter

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Since the OP won’t debate it. Then neither will I.

I’ll simply say that it’s a load of poppycock and end it there.

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@TheologyNerd
Thanks for the word “poppycock”. It is a much more suitable word than the one I had in my mind. I appreciate your reserve.

KP

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So you never heard of Bible scholars Barnes, nor Bible teachers like Derek Prince, Dr. Gleason Archer, Dr. John Battle, Dr. James Montgomery Boice, Dr. C. John Collins, Chuck Missler, etc.

The number of Bible scholars and Bible teachers that adhere to old-earth creationism is a long, long, list. Your attempt at a SHORT LIST doesn’t do your research justice.

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I wish you guys would quit using that term “hermeneutics” in attempt to describe what you do with God’s Word.

Peter is talking about God’s first original creation, because his proclaiming the phrase “that by the word of God the heavens were old,”, that is a beginning creation phrase per Genesis 1:1, and definitely NOT about the time of Noah. Trying to apply that to the days of Noah is just ludicrous and shows a terrible lack of Bible understanding. And thus Peter continues that specific subject TIME when God first made His original creation “by the word of God” with “… and the earth standing in the water, and out of the water:” This phrase is a direct pointer to the Genesis 1:9 event…

Gen 1:9
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
KJV

Peter indeed is using the previous destructions God had done upon this earth to show them another one is coming. That doesn’t mean one can try and LIMIT the number of destructions by moving the flood of Noah’s day back to when God first made His creation in the beginning per Genesis 1:1. Nor does Peter’s mention of the flood of Noah’s day in the previous chapter eliminate his showing about the Genesis 1:9 event of the earth standing in the water and out of the water, which was LONG before the days of Noah. You’re just not thinking.

Per the Genesis 1:2 verse, the earth was ALREADY THERE UNDERNEATH ALL THOSE WATERS. You will not find any verse after Genesis 1:1 that describes a literal creation of the earth, nor those waters, and that because God had already created it at Genesis 1:1 in the beginning. Thus the 1st verse of Genesis is NOT a simple narrative like you say.

I have made no insertion. It’s actually those like you that have, because you are following what men’s doctrines teach, a new-earth creation theory. And that new-earth creation theory demands that Genesis 1:1 be understood as a summary, or narrative, with the rest of the Genesis 1 Chapter verses being consecutive steps of the act of creating, when only Genesis 1:1 declares that actual act of creating.

The origin of the 6,000 year-old creation myth came from some preacher’s wrong interpretation of Bishop Ussher’s 17th century Bible chronology. Ussher placed the time of Adam formed in God’s Garden at 4004 B.C. So preachers started ‘assuming’… that’s also when God created the earth. Then roughly 4000 years plus 2000 gives a total of 6,000 years old, that new-earth creationists believe in.

16

The “without form, and void” phrase in the KJV is a translation to English from Hebrew. Doesn’t mean it is an accurate translation to English, or weren’t you aware that Bible translators don’t always use the actual meaning or direct transliterations to English?

Look at the word “Easter” in Acts 12:4. In the Greek NT manuscripts it’s actually the word ‘pascha’, which means Passover. There’s no way one can get the word Easter out of the Greek word pascha for Passover. Likewise in Isaiah 14:12 with the name “Lucifer”. The KJV translators switched “Lucifer” for the Hebrew word heylel which Hebrew heylel means ‘morning star’. Only Lord Jesus is the True Morning Star (Rev.22).

So please Peter, don’t try to use that “without form, and void” phrase to prove that’s evidence of God in the act of creating. I showed the Strong’s definition of those Hebrew words tohu va bohu which that phrase was translated from. And if you use your Strong’s concordance cross-reference, or one like it, like The Englishman’s Concordance, you’ll discover that Hebrew tohuw (translated “without form”) is actually a Hebrew word used throughout The Old Testament about something that was once in a good state that goes to nothing, or to a ruined condition.

Not what Hebrew tohuw is used for in God’s Word. It does not mean something that never existed. Examples…

Deut 32:10
10 He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness (tohuw); he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.
KJV

1 Sam 12:21
21 And turn ye not aside: for then should ye go after vain (tohuw) things, which cannot profit nor deliver; for they are vain (tohuw).
KJV

Job 6:18
18 The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing (tohuw), and perish.
KJV

Isa 40:17
17 All nations before him are as nothing; and they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity (tohuw).
KJV

Isa 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain (tohuw), He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
KJV

Jer 4:23-24
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form (tohuw), and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
KJV

Notice mountains trembled at that time when the earth was “without form”, and void. What’s mountains already existing then if Hebrew tohuw means the earth wasn’t formed yet?

All of those uses of Hebrew tohuw are about an original state or condition that went bad, into vanity. That’s what the word ‘tohuw’ means, not a vaccum like nothing existed yet.

17

No, Genesis 1:2 is describing the already created earth… being covered by waters of a flood. It is pointing to a destruction upon the earth, not an act of creation.

Gen 1:2
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
KJV

And the Hebrew verb hayah for “was” can mean ‘become’, or ‘come to pass’. The meaning is that the already existing earth ‘became’… a waste and an undistinguishable ruin (Strong’s definitions per OT:8414 and OT:922 for Hebrew tohuw and bohuw).

18

Yes, it does give evidence that another world existed prior to this present one, because when did Lucifer draw those one third of the stars (angels) in rebellion with Him against God? That rebellion is not shown in Genesis 1, nor anywhere in the Book of Genesis as having happened during this present world.

And you can call what I’m going to say next as just my opinion. But how can you understand that Lord Jesus was ordained to come and die on the cross even BEFORE the foundation of this world, and not understand that was prior… to Adam and Eve’s sin in God’s Garden?

Matt 25:34
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, "Come, ye blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:"
KJV

Eph 1:4
4 According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
KJV

1 Peter 1:19-20
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
KJV

Rev 13:8
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV

How can you forget that Christ was ordained to come before the foundation of this present world?
And on top of that, God’s parable about Lucifer’s original fall and rebellion in Ezekiel 28 using the “king of Tyrus” as a type, shows that God originally created Lucifer perfect in his ways, and that Lucifer originally followed God right there at His Throne, as a cherub that covereth (the Mercy Seat, God’s Place). Just WHEN could that have been when Lucifer was perfect in his ways? Certainly not when he shows up in God’s Eden as “that old serpent” per Genesis 3.

19

Who did you hear that “apocalyptic imagery” label from? No doubt from those who don’t understand Christ’s Book of Revelation. Some even try to claim that Apostle John didn’t write Revelation, because of the different writing style than John’s Gospel Book. I hope you aren’t listening to those bunch of crackpots.

2 different beasts are given in that Revelation 13 Chapter. Only the 1st beast of Rev.13:1-2 is about a beast kingdom over all the earth. And note it is to have “ten crowns” instead of the “seven crowns” that the old one of Rev.12:3-4 had. (Yeah, I’m not going to let you slip by that one which happened in the old world before Adam and Eve.) The Rev.13:1 beast kingdom is for our present world, at the end.

No, you would be changing the time given there in that Rev.12:3-4 Scripture that directly associates when Lucifer drew one third of the angels (“stars”) into rebellion with him. That only happened at His original fall and rebellion in the old world, prior to Adam and Eve. So for what you say to be true, you would have to cut out that, “And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:”. Nor can you just try and re-assign that Rev.12:4 casting of one third of the angels as a new subject, because that phrase “And his tail…” points back to the one spoken of in the previous 3rd verse, which is the “red dragon”, the title of “dragon” being another title for Satan per Rev.12:9.

If you are saying the beast kingdom of Rev.13:1 is about today’s move towards a “one world government”, with ten kings over it, then I partially agree. Partially, because in the Book of Daniel we are shown that another “little horn” will come up among the ten horns, and subdue 3 of the 10 horns. So that leaves a different structure for the number of horns. In the Hebrew, the subduing does not mean kill those 3 horns, but something like where their ruling structure will be over. I speculate the following…

Think of a pyramid controlling structure over the earth, bottom to top apex. 7 kings over 7 continents (“mountains” as the 7 heads of Rev.17). Then the subdued 3 kings over 3 World Unions, which is about the Trilateral Commission plan to create 3 Unions that cover the whole earth, the European Union (already in place), the American Union (shadow gov. still working on it), and the Asia Pacific Union (in works still). Then on the very top, Lucifer himself.

Once again, you cannot omit the timing given when Lucifer was originally perfect in his ways, and then rebelled with drawing one third of the angels into rebellion with him. That had to have happened prior… to Christ’s ordaining to be born through woman’s womb to offer us remission of sins through Faith. And I already showed you plenty of Bible Scripture about Christ having been ordained before the foundation of this present world.

20

I don’t know where you got all that speculation from about what Paul said in that Romans 5 Scripture.

Rom 5:18-19
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
KJV

Paul is not talking about the situation prior… to God having created Adam and Eve. He is talking specifically about the sin which Adam and Eve did which caused ‘death’ to come upon them. And God had warned them that the day if they ate from the tree in the midst of the garden, that would be the day they would die (Genesis 3).

That begs the question I’m sure you may not want to answer: It is just WHEN did the concept of “death” come into that picture with Adam and Eve? Was death just created right then at God’s warning them? No. The concept of ‘death’ already existed, otherwise God would not have warned that they would die if they ate of the tree in the midst of the garden.

Heb 2:14
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
KJV

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV

Did you not know that the devil did the very first sin from the beginning? It was when Lucifer coveted God’s Throne for himself. And he did that back in the old world, prior to this 2nd world earth age that began at Gen.1:2 forward. That is when the power of death was assigned to Lucifer. And that is when Lord Jesus Christ was first ordained to be born of woman’s womb to die on the cross for the remission of the sins of those who believe.