Neal-- just breathe man. You’ll be alright. Just breathe.
Yes, I’ll probably be OK - unless i get killed by a new pandemic under Trump because the people who were monitoring it and stopping it in Africa were downsized, or unless there’s a researcher on the verge of a breakthrough on a disease that wouldn’t have killed me if they weren’t defunded… “To live is Christ and to die is gain”, but I want to be healthy as long as I can…
But it’s not all about me! As Christians we’re supposed to love our neighbor - so what about all the people the US abruptly stopped feeding, giving medical supplies and help to? What about all the babies who are being born with HIV because their mothers aren’t receiving treatment to protect them?
In the parable of the Good Samaritan, we’ve become the priest and the levite who pass by on the other side of the road, rather than the Samaritan who helps the injured man…
Just wear a mask. They protect you from everything. Kind of the way a chain link fence around your house will prevent mosquitos from entering.
Get your own house in order, then you will be prepared to serve outside your house. Biblical proportions of DOGE.
I am pretty sure it is the end of the world so Trump and Elon are a moot point.
Everything they are cutting up and throwing away will just make it easier for people to die in a crisis.
Rich people may survive a bit longer with extra food stored up, but that food will eventually run out. With no farmers, markets, roadways, hospitals, etc life expectancy will drop drastically assuming anyone survives the astroid coming in seven years, or the drastic weather shifts, or the unmanned nuclear plants going nuclear, or a nuclear war if it goes that far.
I believe that God’s plan for Trump was to do exactly what he is doing. It is harvest time.
Before going further, I see myself as a “pious Bible based Christian” who attempts to be faithful to Biblical teachings and to love God with all my being and love my neighbor. I believe I’m in the center politically - which might look like a leftist activist to some on the right and like a bigot to some on the left. I believe that a lot of issues are complicated and that we need to be compassionate toward people in difficult situations. I hate lies and have a strong sense of justice and of right and wrong. I’m registered as an independent because there are things espoused by both parties that I disagree with.
I agree - as I’ve repeatedly said in this discussion; not just Americans eventually, but people who were dependent on aid that was cut are dying right now.
I hesitate to predict an apocalypse (“But as for the day and hour no one knows it…” - Mt. 24:36 et al), but it’s one of the possible outcomes that I see (in no particular order):
- From a pessimistic / dystopian viewpoint: Apocalypse, as you described, inflation/recession, potentially with a nuclear holocaust (unlikely, IMO) or more likely environmental disasters and a pandemic worse than COVID and the breakdown of means of production and shipping and of civil society. The plutocrats/oligarchs/fascists will continue their takeover of the US, ignoring the courts’ legal decisions and/or replacing more impartial judges with their own syncophants, taking advantage of Trump’s alienation of all our former allies, and will continue to ignore both US laws and moral considerations. We might have"Red Hats", the equivalent of Hitler’s Brownshirts, led by the Proud Boys and other criminal organizations.
- From an optimistic / utopian viewpoint: Americans will suffer in the next couple of years, with inflation, possibly with another pandemic, especially if the current administration badly messes up Social Security, supply chains, and causes a huge economic recession/depression, turning many voters against Trump and his supporters in Congress. More Democrats will be elected in two years and will be able to stop and begin to repair some of the damage that Trump and Musk are doing. A Democratic president will be elected in 2028 and with Democratic majorities in both the House and Senate will enact changes, potentially much like FDR’s “New Deal”, giving jobs to people forced into poverty by the economic downtown and making a number of agencies non-partisan again.
- Something in between: I’m fairly confident that Democrats will be elected after people inevitably suffer under the inflation and possible concurrent recession (“stagflation”) that are very likely to happen (and possible pandemic), but it will take a while to recover from much of the damage Trump and Musk are doing and many voters are short-sighted. Democrats will win some power back in 2 and 4 years but might not be able to fix things quickly enough and be able to counter the misinformation (both internal and planted by Russia and China) effectively enough to help enough and keep the plutocrats and fascists from being elected back into our government.
Yes.
Before the election I was extremely apprehensive of what Trump would do if elected and prayed hard that he would not be. I was crushed when it happened, but then began to rest on who God is, daily affirming: “Lord, you are holy, you are good, you are wise, you are just, you are omnipotent, you are omniscient, you are sovereign…”. I began rereading The Knowledge of the Holy, by A.W. Tozer. Today I read the chapter on The Wisdom of God, in which he said, “We rest in what God is” and “The testimony of faith is that, no matter things look in this fallen world, all God’s acts are wrought in perfect wisdom”. I know that God doesn’t promise that things will always be easy for us (from the Bible, e.g. Job, Acts, et al, history (Nero, …), my experience and others’ experience) but I can trust that God is working everything for the greatest overall good.
This might indeed be your ‘belief’ -but your own words betray you.
As a self-described “pious Bible believing Christian” you might start with being honest with yourself and others.
How would you categorize yourself?
Fiscal and social conservative. Non-pious Bible believing Christian.
You may think I’m “left”, but that may be because you’re so far to the “right” that even “center” seems radical to you. Ultimately my relationship with God and my faithfulness is between him and me, no matter what you might think or say or disagree with. I constantly examine myself to see if I’m following Biblical standards and teachings and a Biblical lifestyle, including loving my neighbor wherever in the world they are.
As a fiscal conservative, here’s a podcast by two fiscal conservatives that you might find interesting: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FMns_BlAfnI&list=PLdMrbgYfVl-tMEnS1IoUtgT3GyTq75-jp&index=1&pp=iAQB
As a self described “Bible believing Christian”, how do you Biblically justify your apparent indifference to millions of people abruptly being cut off from life or death food and medical aid?
lol… sure Neal. But this is getting far afield of your greatest fears. I have none.
And neither do I have any interest in playing the “how do you justify” game with someone who goes around calling himself “pious.” You see, I don’t have to justify anything to you. Ultimately my relationship with God and my faithfulness is between him and me no matter what you might think or say or disagree with. See how that works?
I’m very comfortable in my own skin. And I’m completely unashamed to call myself what I am, without cowering behind a pretense of centrism. It’s very simple for me. If America was a family (it is) I would be a very poor Father and a very poor Christian at the same time, if I spent my time and energy and treasure taking care of everybody else’s kids around the world, while ignoring the needs of my own. If I had no money, I wouldn’t print my own to then give away to those in far off lands while my own kids have horrible education, healthcare, security and a lack of any opportunity to fix any of it because I spent every fractional and fictional dollar elsewhere-- at their expense and to their detriment.
You might be that kind of Dad and that kind of American–but I’m not.
God Himself, cuts off the fruitless branches.
God bless America and to all a good night! 
This doesn’t end with a balanced budget, though. Your family isn’t going to be safer or better off for it.
Trunp represents a spirit of chaos, destruction, deconstruction. He does not have the capacity to bring balance or stability. Only an ending to what was. And not by his own power.
His own reelection team in December 2019 pasted Trump’s face on Thanos’s body from the marvel movies and tagged the pic with, I am inevitable. BUT… Thanos’s mission was to kill off half the population in the universe. And the name itself means Death. In the comic books, Thanos was not even trying to save rhe orher half if the universe. He just wanted to woo and impress Lady Death, an incarnation of Death in thr DC Universe. The irony is, she was repulsed. By his own doing, Trump symbolically tied himself to mass death.
One of his first acts in office was to dismantle an organization created by President George W Bush to deal with the anual pandemic that occurs every 100 years and kills masses. Bush, a man of faith, read a book and knew in his heart that death was coming. He followed a call to prepare. And Trump demolished it. Not long after, Covid followed. And then proceeded to both take action against it, and uphold the alternative history that Covid was not real. And many Americans still don’t believe it happened despite the absolute madness of the very idea that the whole world was putting on a hoax.
And the funny thing is, Covid wasn’t the anual pandemic. It is about to come. The bird flu that is stirring now? That is most likely the pandemic Bush was planning on. And the CDC is in shambles. Coincidence?
Did you know a trump in ancient Greece was a hymn to the god Dionysus? The god of wine and madness. His followers would often go into a frenzy, ripping people apart to bloody deaths. One story has the god sacrificing himself after his followers went too crazy…by jumping off a pier, taking his followers with him to their collective deaths.
Even if Trump could be stopped legally or physically, (which I honestly don’t think is possible- he has an anointing of protection. Hitler had a similar annointing.) -the spirit will not stop. It will just find another vessel to finish what it has set out to do.
The spirit itself must be challenged and cleared. It would take a movement of prayer, sacred incense, and determination like has never been seen in order to exorcise that spirit. Like Joshua and his army marching around the walls of Jericho, blowing their horns and shouting to bring down the walls. The spirit of disension would not allow such a movement to threaten it. People are too invested in their own suffering, and two caught up in all the drama to focus on God.
This spirit has been revealing itself, and been revealed, for a while now. Around 9/11 an astroid was randomly given the name of Apophis, an Egyption god of chaos. It is expected to fly close or crash into the earth as it flies by twice in the next decade or two.
Wonder Woman 1984 was about a chaos god, mirroring our political landscape. Done as political protest, but still an interesting way to approach it.
If you scour you tube right now you may notice the large number of posts that declare you too can manifest your heart’s desire, just by focussing your intentions and chanting or by doing a little witchery. Not too disimilar from Wonder Woman 1984…
What happens when large numbers of people start getting all their wishes granted? And reality bends in every direction so every selfish desire can come your way? For everyone? Sound sustainable? The Wonder Woman movie didn’t think so.
Have any of you ever heard of the Mandella Effect? Named after Nelson Mandella? Apparently people disagree about how he died. Some say at home, others say in prison. The childrens book, the Berenstein Bears? People disagree about how the name of the book has always been pronounced. 2 examples of a growing disodence in reality. Not to mention the red and blue divide in America with 2 very different realities being lived and believed.
The fact is, globally- a lot of people will die. Whether it’s plagues, war, nukes, who knows? Maybe a mini ice age will start- we are over do for a shift.
What ever it is, be kind to the people around you. We don’t know how much time we have left.
Tillman and I were on topic. He expressed his fears about what’s happening and I replied with several versions of what I fear, or hope, will potentially happen as a result, followed by how my faith is helping me. Then you attacked me.
Maybe “pious” means something different to you than to me. How about “devout”?
I was truly interested in how you might reconcile your views with the Bible. After your avoidance of other straightforward questions like that, though, I’m not surprised that you didn’t answer the question. No, I agree, you don’t have to justify yourself to me, but to God; I just was hoping you could give me a faith-based explanation.
Hebrews 4:13
“And no creature is hidden from God, but everything is naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must render an account.”
I’d be delighted if Congress and my state (which actually has a fiscal surplus) would appropriate more money for education and teacher training and compensation - but the administration and DOGE are cutting back the Department of Education and threatening to do away with it altogether, and many Republican-led states are giving public money as vouchers to private schools instead of adequately funding public schools. I’d be delighted if they fixed our expensive, inefficient healthcare system, and gave women who work hourly low-wage jobs better wages, affordable prenatal care and paid time off to go to appointments, paid maternity leave, and affordable daycare and preschool (which together I think would decrease the number of abortions that are from financial desperation) - but instead of improving our healthcare they’ve cut the CDC’s contact with WHO and cut essential staff from the CDC and the FDA, increasing the likelihood of disease and food poisoning. The House passed a budget that can only be met if Medicaid is drastically cut, making healthcare more difficult and expensive for the poorest among us. And where do they want to put the money they’re cutting? They want tax breaks that will mostly benefit the wealthiest among us and will add yet more to the deficit. And all the staff cuts are just a drop in the ocean of government expenses - if you haven’t yet, listen to the podcast with David French that I posted the link to yesterday.
Regarding whether I’m “center”: No analogy is perfect, but imagine that I’m standing in the middle of a city block with a building behind me that I have a partial ownership in, and in which I live. On the corner of the building to my left I see some of the management group who are running a free clinic and food kitchen for the poor, trying to take care of people, but also trying to help in some ways that I don’t agree with… To my right I see a rich guy and a convicted criminal hired by another part of the management group directing their employees to go into another charity kitchen and clinic at that corner and throughout the building with their chainsaws, heedless of anyone their chainsaws hit and also taking out some of the building’s structural elements. Of course I’ll first call out the group doing the most harm to the most people and the building as a whole. That doesn’t mean I’m not “center”; I just see lots of harm being done to literally millions of people and long term damage to our government and relations with former allies in order to give millionaires and billionaires a lot more money and avoid accountability.
Again, no analogy is perfect and I can imagine some of your objections, so I don’t need to hear you pick it apart and won’t reply if you do.
Man, that’s an oldie! Yes, may God bless America, and have mercy and grace on us all, and direct us in His ways. May we be “the shining city upon a hill”, as Ronald Reagan quoted from Matthew: Ronald Reagan and "the shining city upon a hill" - Our Lost Founding
Yes. We need to show Christ’s love, especially when things are difficult, and take care that we not be deceived by false prophets.
Again, I’m encouraged and reassured by who God is - sovereign and omnipotent - and He adopted us as His children and heirs, and co-heirs with Christ! (Rm. 8:14-17). Today I looked up Bible verses about “the Lord reigns” and also found this web page to be reassuring: The Lord Reigns | G3 Ministries
Be encouraged! He is faithful and true!
Absolutely. Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst. And be careful of those who proclaim Peace when there is no peace. And Run to the hillls when you see the abomination that causes desolation. And remember that many people laughed at Noah when he was building a boat. Only a few got on the boat. Almost like the wedding party where the invited guests declined, God gave their seats to the animals in town.
False prophets tend to lead a false people into the arms of a false god. And to their doom.
So be sure to apply “false” where it is due. And never call something “fake” when it is absolutely proven true.
Many people ran away from Reverand Jim Jones at the last second. Only a few survived from the cascade of bullets. But no one who kept drinking the KoolAid survived the poison.
They said Jesus was a drunkard and John the Baptist had a demon. We assume we know better.
And yet, fools abound.
My top concern about the Trump presidency is that the Democrats will prevent him from fixing our problems.