Which Old Testament Laws Are Now Obsolete?

Theology
41

I could be wrong but I feel like there may be some confusion or run on between the word covenant and the word law.

Obsolete means irrelvant.

The new law better addresses what the old law was meant to. It berter emcompasses.

With the old law, lets say, you were ordered not to raise pigs on the land. So farmers satisfied the law by not letting pigs touch the ground- they kept them on platforms, on stilts.

The problem is that little bit of manuevering that humans like to do to get out of instruction. We tend to find a way to do what we want, regardless of what God wants.

History shows us time amd time again even after Christ- if we want a man’s wife or land, we find a way to get rid of the man. David sent Bathsheba’s husband to a hopeless battle knowing the man would die. Puritans declared that their neighbors and elderly were witches to get them out of the way.

Murder through deception, using the rule of law and premise of justice to commit the crime. Using God to do evil.

But if you truly belong to God, the new law is bound to your soul. Most would say by blood. Kept alive through Holy Fire. A true child of God loves God, loves himself, and loves his neighbor. The Holy Spirit is a Spirit that encompasses all the qualities of love, peace, justice, wisdom. And if these things live in you, then you live by them.

In this new covenant, you no longer desire to skirt the obligation to love. But instead you act as one body treating each part as essential. No matter how much your left hand disagrees with your right.

Now to live by love is not the same as having a finely worded instruction manuel laid out in print for all to read. And one man’s understanding of love may far surpass another’s.

Meaning the greatest of you will be the servant of all. Not a king who serves himself.

But if we come into this covenant and do not grow into any understanding of what love is… We are nothing. Not even the excrement leaving the body.

42

Should I believe you or the Bible? Would you please show us in the Bible where it says that the only laws that have been made obsolete are the sacrificial laws?

“The law” means the entire OT law, which is external. Since we have been given the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth, there is no need for external laws. For example, where in the written law does it say that we should not send spam e-mails? (It doesn’t.) Yet all Christians know that doing so is wrong.

43

You should believe the Bible. Absolutely.

Hey Benny, I don’t share your animosity and I’m happy to discuss anything you’d like to discuss in line with the thread topic. I have no problem posting verses for each and every one of my claims, but I’ve done that repeatedly and you seem to just ignore all the proof-texts that I post.

Remember when I posted (Heb. 7:16; 9:10)(Eph. 2:15)(Col. 2:14,20)?

All of those verses/passages discuss the Law of Ordinances, the sacrificial Laws, and Heb. 9:10 specifically states that these Laws were “imposed upon them until the time of reformation.”

The time of reformation was Jesus’ ministry and the Cross of Calvary.

If you disagree with all that, no problem. Let’s discuss it.

If you’re not here to discuss the Bible, why are you here, brother?

44

In Christianity, the coming of Jesus fulfilled the ceremonial and sacrificial aspects of Old Testament law. For example, Hebrews 8:13 mentions that the old covenant is obsolete as Jesus established a new covenant through His sacrifice.

1 Like
45

I am here to discuss the Bible and issues related to theology. Simply because you post (out-of-context) verses and your interpretation doesn’t make that the truth. It’s just your interpretation and I have the right to disagree.

Jesus’ sacrifice ended the Old Covenant, which was dependent on written (external) laws to govern people’s lives. The New Covenant has replaced the written laws and people’s lives are now governed by the (internal) Holy Spirit. Therefore, all the Old Covenant laws have been rendered moot.

Remember, if you depend on the OT law then you are required to keep ALL of it, including animal sacrifices.

46

One needs to define “law,” differentiating laws from ordinances, decrees, statutes, and testimonies, I believe. I think there are only ten laws in the Old Testament.

47

There are 613 laws in the Torah.

Biblical law refers to the rules and commandments given in the Old Testament . It encompasses both moral precepts and legal regulations . These laws were given to the Israelites and are found in the first five books of the Bible, known as the Torah . They are considered divine and perfect . (Biblica.com)

48

None of Gods laws statues etc are obsolete.
Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away before even a punctuation mark is removed from the law.
And
ALL scripture is God breathed and useful for teaching rebuking and training in rightousness.

We don’t cherry pick tnose bits webeljeve are relevant.

49

So everything God said is a law? How many commandments would you say there are?

50

Do you really expect me to answer this question again?

51

So why does Paul say that we are dead to the law? If God’s laws still apply to Christians then Jesus’ sacrifice was worthless.

Romans 7:4, So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead , in order that we might bear fruit for God.

52

It isn’t about the law. If you rob a bank, you’ll go to prison. It’s good advice, then, not to steal, as Jesus taught us.

53

Where did I say that?
I said that Gods laws are not obsolete.
For those seeking to earn their salvation they apply in every detail.
For those for whom Jesus’s atonement is sufficient, they don’t apply.
But they are still there.

54

The temple has been destroyed, therefore animal sacrifices are no longer in effect. So, the basis of Old Covenant, which applied to the Jews, is no longer in effect.

55

Yes the temple is no more and will not be needed again, but the laws still exist as they teach us about God, about how costly being in a right relationship with God is, about the need for repentance prior to forgiveness etc etc

56

In Exodus chapters 21- 23 has come to be known among the Hebrews as the book of the covenant. The book of the covenant consists of those rules and ordinances immediately following the giving of the 10 Commandments in Exodus chapter 20. Recall that the 10 Commandments were essentially the first 10 of what would grow to 613 laws of the Torah, however, these first 10 laws also doubling as the 10 basic principles upon which the remaining 603 laws would be founded upon. There is no law given that does not conform to the principles and pattern of the 10 Commandments. As a result it is amazing that by the same church that has “long ago” determined that the Torah is an absolute document (The laws replaced by grace) And says that to follow the laws and principles of Torah amounts to the dreaded “legalism”, will then turn around and venerate (Actually, demand) That those first 10 Old Testament laws, the 10 Commandments, be scrupulously observed.

It’s virtually impossible to have one without the other. Distinguishing between God‘s laws, which of course, includes the 10 Commandments intended for us to follow, versus any man-made traditions which the disciples and Jesus spoke against. God‘s laws were not intended to be followed to gain salvation. They were intended for obedience and a blessing if we do.

Salvation is a gift, God provided us in Jesus Christ, showing His Love for His creation. So our obedience to His laws, are only our show of Love towards Him for what He has and continues to do for us, through our walk of faith which equates to-our actions of trusting God.

The laws pertaining to the sacrificial offering’s, of animals for sins are no longer needed as we know because of Jesus’s sacrifice. The laws pertaining to offerings and any laws related to the temple even to this day cannot be performed because there is no physical temple.

For those who would choose to study God‘s word by actually reading the OT in reference to all the laws of God. You too, through the discernment of the Holy Spirit of God would be able to Discern Properly, which of the 613 laws still apply to us today!!

A decision to follow God‘s laws and commands is an individual decision each one of us has a free will to participate or not. I don’t believe this forum is intended to force anyone to do Anything against their own will, even God doesn’t force anyone to obey.

It is that as we do obey willingly to follow his words truly, God stated there are blessings in our obedience.

57

Understanding Heb. 8:13, one of the key points is to understand what is “the first” that is being antiquated. In Hebrews the writer spends a huge chunk of the letter ( ~6:19- 10:23) writing about the role of Messiah as our High Priest (in the order of Melchizedek) and His eternal work for us before YHWH God in the heavens at the original Tabernacle. The writer even contrasts this with the role of the Aaronic priesthood in the copy here on earth. Their duty on an earthly tabernacle/temple is everlasting (Exo 40:15) as long as there is an earth and an earthly tabernacle/temple, but the work of Messiah is eternal, even when this heaven and earth pass away.

From Heb 7:11 through 10:23 we find the writer contrasting multiple aspects of the duties of the Aaronic priesthood with the eternal work of Messiah. In chapter 8 the writer starts tells us his “main point”, which is that “we have such a High Priest… The writer goes on to to tell us in v.7 “For if THAT FIRST had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.” Going on to quote Jer 31 we understand that the fault was with the Children of Israel, of which the priests were a part.

As the writer goes on in v.13 with ‘saying a renewel antiquates THE FIRST… THE FIRST in the greater context seems to reference the Aaronic priesthood which is being contrasted with Messiah’s priesthood. This continues into 9:1 “Now even the first (priesthood) had regulations of divine worship and the earthly sanctuary,…” and then v2-9 describe the duties of the “first” (priesthood). The writer goes on in v11-28 to show how much better (because of its eternal nature) is the priesthood of our Messiah Jesus.

Read Rom. 9:11-15
Notice it defines exactly which sins or transgressions that his blood tones for as it says, the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant referring to the law of the Torah. The new covenant deals with how atonement is achieved, and who is included among those that are permitted to use this level of atonement for sins. This new and unprecedented level is Christ’s blood because it is applied once and for all, with the caveat that the permitted group who may take advantage of this permanent method of atonement is only those who trust in what Christ did. All others are excluded

So let’s be very clear about what is happening here, so vividly stated and yet routinely misused. We commit sin, and Jesus our Messiah’s blood makes our atonement. What is sin? It is a transgression against the first covenant. What is the first covenant? The law of the Torah

See the New Testament story of Jesus is all about a new level of atonement not a new law. The law has not somehow been made absolute.

To the unconverted who read the Bible—who look into these things—these terms are so enticing that it lures them into saying that there is nothing that we have to do. Some will go that far! They will say that it has all been done for us. They read the terms, but they reach the wrong conclusion. It leads people to say, “ There is no law,” and, “ You don’t have to keep the Sabbath. It’s just ceremonial.” However, the truth is that it is so one-sided, so much to “our” benefit, that it leaves us without excuse for failure to keep the terms—and those terms include law keeping**.”**

58

Apparently there are a number of Christians who, although well-intentioned regarding the law, have not read Galatians 3. Will those of you who believe that Christians should keep God’s law please read that chapter before continuing this discussion. Thank you.