An argument showing and explaing the existence of Order and Love on creation and having being attribute never created but of God himself

Theology
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The Uncreated Eternity of Love and Order

Order and love are not emergent properties of a material universe, nor are they contingent byproducts of time; they are the eternal, uncreated realities of the First Cause. Because the ultimate source of reality is complete and unchanging, its nature has possessed absolute structural order and Trinity relational love from eternity past.

Jeremiah 33:25

“Thus says the LORD: If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed order of heaven and earth…”

  • John 17:24 (Literal Greek Translation)

    “Father, I desire that they also, whom you have given me, may be with me where I am, to see my glory that you have given me because you loved me before the foundation of the world.”

  • 1 John 4:8

    “Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.”

  • Proverbs 8:22–23, 30 (Literal Hebrew Translation)

    “The LORD possessed me at the beginning of his work, the first of his acts of old. Ages ago I was set up, at the first, before the beginning of the earth… Then I was beside him, like a master workman…”

II. The Inescapable Framework of Reality

Reality is entirely sustained by this eternal architecture. Order and love form the foundational gridlines that hold existence together; nothing can be thought, measured, or experienced outside of them. Even when an individual attempts to deny meaning or objective design, they must rely on the stable, orderly laws of logic that flow from this unchanging source.

Jeremiah 33:25

“Thus says the LORD: If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed order of heaven and earth…”

  • Colossians 1:16–17 (Literal Greek Translation)

    “For by him all things were created… and he is before all things, and in him all things hold together (sunistēmi).”

  • Hebrews 1:3

    “He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.”

  • Psalm 119:89–90

    “Forever, O LORD, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens. Your faithfulness endures to all generations; you have established the earth, and it stands fast.”

III. The Contingency of Free Will on Divine Love

Free will is not a self-generated, independent power floating free from its source. Because God is love, and because love requires a volitional, unforced response rather than mechanical compulsion, the very capacity for free will is a direct gift and expression of divine love. Agency is entirely contingent upon that love and ongoing connection; without the sustaining breath of the First Cause and the relational space opened up by divine love, free will cannot exist.

Colossians 1:16–17 (Literal Greek Translation)

"For by him all things were created… and he is before all things, and in him all things hold together

  • Acts 17:28 (Literal Greek Translation)

    “For ‘In him we live and move and have our being’…”

  • Job 33:4

    “The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life.”

  • Colossians 1:17 (Literal Greek Translation)

    “…and in him all things hold together.”

IIII. The Inescapable Ontology of Love and Agency

Human beings do not possess the ontological capacity to opt out of the reality of love or order. Even when human agency attempts rebellion, it does so using the very rationality, moral concepts, and breath of life sustained by the Creator. Rebellion does not nullify love; it measures itself against it. Every choice occurs entirely within the inescapable boundaries of that reality, because you cannot step outside of the framework that sustains your very capacity to choose.

Proverbs 19:21

“Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will stand.”

  • Ecclesiastes 3:11 (Literal Hebrew Translation)

    “He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart…”

  • Proverbs 19:21

    “Many are the plans in the mind of a man, but it is the purpose of the LORD that will stand.”

Conclusion

Therefore, because absolute order and relational love are uncreated, eternal realities (John 17:24, 1 John 4:8), because all existence and coherence are continuously bound by this divine framework (Colossians 1:17), and because creaturely free will is itself a contingent expression of divine love and relational connection rather than an independent absolute (Acts 17:28), love and order form the immutable bedrock of reality—outside of which nothing can originate, subsist, or choose.

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Well, this is interesting. See, you CAN do it; however, this post from you is vastly different in tone, structure, and substance from your previous one. Here is what I mean: while your earlier post attempted to use empirical physics, orbital mechanics, and probability theory to prove a Creator, this post is a piece of classical Christian metaphysics and systematic theology.

First Post (Physics / Fine-Tuning) Second Post (Metaphysics / Scripture) MethodPseudo-scientific claims about gravity, thermodynamics, and probability . Biblical theology, philosophy of being (ontology), and classical metaphysics.Foundation: Misapplied physical laws (F = ma, Second Law of Thermodynamics).Scripture passages (John, Colossians, Proverbs, Acts) and logical deduction.Soundness: Weak / Flawed: Confused human math models for physical "software code."Strong / Classical: Represents standard historic Trinitarian theology accurately.

It is as if two different people wrote them. Dealing with this one. Love and order aren’t things that evolved or popped into existence with the Big Bang; they are intrinsic to God’s eternal character. Because God is a Trinity (a relational unity), love existed before the physical universe was created (citing John 17:24).

This aligns directly with standard orthodox Christian theology (e.g., Augustine, C.S. Lewis). The Trinitarian view holds that God didn’t create the universe because He was lonely, but that creation flowed out of an already-existing, eternal relationship of love between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Here you say all of creation is continually sustained by God’s ongoing power. Without this divine “glue,” reality would collapse. This reflects the doctrine of Divine Conservation (or creatio continuata). Citing Colossians 1:17 ("in him all things hold together"), you argue that God isn’t a watchmaker who wound up the clock and walked away (Deism), but an active sustainer keeping existence coherent moment by moment.

Then you state that free will isn’t an absolute, independent superpower humans possess outside of God. It is a gift rooted in God’s love (since true love requires choice, not compulsion). Even when someone uses their free will to rebel or deny God, they are using the very breath, logic, and existence that God actively provides to do so. Which I believe mirrors the classical argument regarding the parasitic nature of evil/rebellion (famously articulated by Thomas Aquinas). Rebellion cannot create a new universe; it can only misuse the tools provided by the sustained universe.

This one? Well done.

Be blessed, be a blessing,

Peter

3

Sir, stop trolling me, Stop commenting on any of my post, LEAVE ME ALONE, there is something clearly, evil, toxic and malicious about you. I want nothing to do with that

4

If you are going to continue to post here, you will be responded to by those you like and some you don’t this is how we grow. All I have done is correct you when you were wrong, and just praise you for what you got right. No need to take a personal offense to it.

Peace and blessings to you,

Peter

5

I’m asking you to respect my boundaries and you saying you won’t. Evil and malicious intentions showing themselves as they are. A whole demon in sheeps clothing. You wanna show I’m wrong. Leave me alone please. CAN YOU JUST BLOCK ME BECAUSE YOU A MODERATOR I CANT BLOCK YOU

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You asked me to give you my thoughts, using the Word, on this post. So here we go. Here is an analysis of the strengths of his thesis, a few theological points he could strengthen or clarify, and additional Biblical support to enrich his argument.

I think you did a really good job here. You avoid the philosophical trap of making love dependent on creation. By using John 17:24, you ground love in the eternal, intra-Trinitarian relationship before creation. If God were a single person, love would require a creature to exist, making love contingent. Trinitarian theology makes eternal, uncreated love logically necessary. Framing human agency not as total autonomous independence, but as a gift contingent upon divine grace and sustaining power, aligns well with biblical theology Acts 17:28.

Pointing out that even the act of moral or logical rebellion requires the loan of God’s order, logic, and life force is a classic presuppositional and ontological point.

I would merely suggest Roman numerals: Point III is followed by “IIII” instead of the standard Roman numeral IV. Fixing this formatting will give the essay a more polished look. I also noticed redundant Scripture quotes: Jeremiah 33:25 is quoted twice (Section I and Section II). Colossians 1:16–17 is quoted three separate times (Section II and twice under Section III). Proverbs 19:21 is quoted twice under Section IIII. Replacing these duplicate citations with fresh scripture verses will significantly expand the depth and breadth of the essay.

If you would like to expand your defense or replace the duplicated verses, these scriptures align directly with your four points:

For Section I: The Uncreated Eternity of Love & Order

Psalm 90:2

“Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.”

Establishes that God’s nature pre-exists material creation entirely. Ephesians 1:4

“Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love”

This shows that divine love and purpose were active before the material universe.

For Section II: The Inescapable Framework of Reality Psalm 19:1–2

“The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork. Day to day pours out speech, and night to night reveals knowledge.”

This demonstrates that physical creation inherently reflects the objective structural order of the Creator.

Romans 11:36

“For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.”

This one highlights the foundational gridline of existence. Everything originates in, is sustained by, and ends in Him.

For Section III: The Contingency of Free Will on Divine Love, Galatians 5:13

“For you were called to freedom, brothers. Only do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.”

It connects creaturely freedom directly to its intended divine purpose—relational love.

1 John 4:19

“We love because he first loved us.”

This succinctly captures contingency. Our capacity for love and volitional response is entirely derived from His initiation.

For Section IIII (IV): The Inescapable Ontology of Love and Agency, Psalm 139:7–8

“Where shall I go from your Spirit? Or where shall I flee from your presence? If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there!”

Why? Perfect fit for the argument that creatures cannot opt out of or escape the divine framework that sustains them.

Isaiah 45:9

“Woe to him who strives with him who made him, an earthen vessel among earthen vessels! Does the clay say to him who shapes it, ‘What are you making?’”

This illustrates that rebellion itself relies on the very clay/form provided by the Maker.

Like I said, this is a good post. Hope this helps.

Be blessed, be a blessing, and Jesus is LORD!

Peter

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@PeterC

Nicely done Pastor.

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Thank you for your input, this is why I asked for it. Nothing that i post about here on these christian forums is 100% beyond dispute. I post enough so that someone might be curious to reach out and add their perspective and personal growth. I’m never beyond arrogant to think I’m never wrong, that is why as far as i can remember I have never told anyone that they are wrong/‘you are wrong’. I doubt I have even said those to you as well. be cause to me saying those words would mean at that very moment i think i know way more that whom I’m speaking with at the time. I invite change. I want to unlearn, re-lean, learn. What I desire the most is Growth and evolution

1 Like
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Could you also comment on my other post were i tried to explain why God had to exists as eternal/infinite, All knowing, all powerful, complete, and perfect etc?

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I believe I did.

Be blessed,

Peter

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No you didnt. tThis is the title of my post: "I just built this argument explaining using scriptural support why God had to exist as he fully is prior to all existence, in that him being complete, perfect, all knowing and all powerful, capable and everything. Contributions are encouraged "