Baptism that saves us now

[Corlove13]

Reference 1 Peter 3

First I am not dogmatic about Water Baptism. I don’t know how it was done because I wasn’t there.

I have another interpretation of the Baptism that saves us now.

My first Interpretation is the answer to a clear conscience -is water baptism, our commitment to taking up our cross daily.

However my 2nd interpretation begins at the end of verse 18. Where Christ made alive in the Spirit preached to souls in prison in the day of Noah.

So that " in the Spirit" in the day of Noah is the counterpart or representational baptism that saves us now.

Jesus immersed in God

Now to tie these ideals together (trying them on)

What it seems contrastically, the passage could be saying, is that it’s not about an outward ritual removing dirt from the skin, however about an inward reality; that by the same power which raised Christ from the dead and quickens the mortal body, is the baptism that saves us now.

Hence, Quickened by the Spirit, or rather in the Spirit Christ spoke to the spirits in prison.

An so it is daily being in the Spirit, or acting with the Spirit that is what we are saturated or immersed by that saves us now. It is the power of the resurrected body of Christ in whom we are to be immersed. And this is not just our salvation but our life.

[timf]

Eph_4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

For Christians our “one baptism” is by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ upon faith in Jesus.

[Corlove13]

What is conflicting about the passage is first to define words or ideals with a definite meaning.

Without definites there are many interpretations.

For example here are three different ways in which- spoken to spirits in prison can mean. For my second interpretation I run with number 2. But I will study it to see if I object or accept it.

The Post-Crucifixion View (Harrowing of Hell)

• The Timing: Between Jesus’s death on the cross and his resurrection (often called the “Triduum”).

• The Background: Many traditional and historic Christian views, including the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and some Protestant traditions, interpret this as Christ descending into the realm of the dead

• The Purpose: Rather than offering a “second chance” for salvation, this is often understood as Jesus proclaiming his ultimate victory over death and sin, or offering the fruits of his redemption to the faithful Old Testament believers (sometimes called the “Abrahams Bosom”) to take them to heaven.

2. The Pre-Incarnation View (Through Noah)

• The Timing: During the time Noah was building the ark, thousands of years before the earthly life of Jesus.

• The Background: Prominent evangelical theologians (such as Augustine and Wayne Grudem) argue that Jesus did not physically travel to hell, but rather preached in his Spirit through Noah to the wicked people of that era who were spiritually imprisoned by their sin.

• The Purpose: To warn the ungodly generation of coming judgment. By the time Peter wrote his letter centuries later, those individuals’ souls were deemed “spirits in prison” awaiting final judgment.

3. The Demonic Proclamation View

• The Timing: After Jesus’s resurrection and ascension.

• The Background: This view suggests the “spirits” are not human souls, but rather the rebellious angels (or demons) mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4 and Jude 1:6, who are locked in an abyss (Tartarus) for their corruption before the flood.

• The Purpose: Christ’s descent into hell—or his ascension into heaven—served as a triumphant announcement proclaiming his absolute victory over the forces of evil.

[Corlove13]

@Corlove13

. The Pre-Incarnation View (Through Noah)

• The Timing: During the time Noah was building the ark, thousands of years before the earthly life of Jesus.
• The Background: Prominent evangelical theologians (such as Augustine and Wayne Grudem) argue that Jesus did not physically travel to hell, but rather preached in his Spirit through Noah to the wicked people of that era who were spiritually imprisoned by their sin.
• The Purpose: To warn the ungodly generation of coming judgment. By the time Peter wrote his letter centuries later, those individuals’ souls were deemed “spirits in prison” awaiting final judgment.

My Presubposition was the above.

Here are some reason for this position:

The view that Jesus “preached through Noah” in 1 Peter 3:19-20 suggests that the pre-existent Christ proclaimed the gospel to the wicked generation of Noah’s day using the Holy Spirit through Noah’s preaching. [

The strongest internal and contextual evidence for this interpretation includes:

• The Agency of the Spirit: 1 Peter 3:18 states Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.” Scholars argue this means He accomplished His earthly work and preached through the Holy Spirit.

• Noah as a Preacher: In 2 Peter 2:5, Peter explicitly calls Noah a “herald of righteousness” (a preacher of righteousness). This aligns with the idea that Christ’s Spirit was speaking through Noah to warn the people.

• The “Spirits in Prison” Identity: The passage states these spirits “formerly did not obey” during the time the ark was being prepared. Interpreters argue that these disobedient individuals—who were alive on Earth during Noah’s 120 years of preaching—were spiritually imprisoned in their sin while Peter was writing.

• Augustinian Consensus: Historically, this perspective was famously championed by Augustine of Hippo. He and other theologians argue that the pre-incarnate Christ spoke through the prophets (including Noah) throughout the Old Testament era, long before His physical incarnation.

Passage: parentheses added by me for reference to questions below

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by(2) the Spirit:

19 *By which also(1) he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Which sometime were disobedient, when(3) once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

1. Why “also”?
2. Is it “by” or “in” …in this passage->but quickened by the Spirit:
3. Doesn’t it tell us when?

[Corlove13]

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by(2) the Spirit:

Sense my main presubposition begins at verse 18 then it might be important to gather similar scriptures that may give meaning for- quickened by or in the Spirit.

My spouse said something that ring in my ears…but I have to go back and read the full passage to my spouse.

My Spouse declared that the word lives on

But here are some ways one might see the phrase made alive in the Spirit:

1. That Christ body was dead and His Spirit raised it, speaking of the Resurrection
2. Surrounded in the father’s presence His testimony speaks confirming who the prophet said He was.

At the same time I see the passage as the Spirit speaking through Noah, I can still see Jesus declaring victory, setting captives free..for there was a parable that spoke of a gulf between 2 types of folks, those in Abraham’s bosom and those that weren’t. And a passage where it said He also ascended to the lower parts of the earth.

But does having both these thoughts nulify that it was in the spirit, or by the Spirit <-<- that was the prefugured?

Another words rather He set the captives free from Abraham’s time or Spoke through Noah in His day it was Still by the quickening of the Spirit, or being made alive in the Spirit.

So that does not change. Both ways “by” or "in"still express an antitype, counter part, or prefigured event. Even the truth that Noah Trust or commitment to God keeps Him in God’s care. Even water Baptism as an action of what one believes, committing themselves to die, or leave death behind.

For if we truly have left death behind then what are we living by, and ultimately what would have been on the otherside of those waters? Alive in the Spirit

So what ever the act of belief is we all have some waters of life we must go through to get to the otherside. But once to the other side the Baptism that saves us are the waters of eternal life, commitment to the Spirit of God, the teachings of Christ having left the haglers, death behind. The Baptism that saves us is being made alive or quicken by the Spirit. Immersed in the presence of God that transforms our heart unto the heart of Christ.

[Bestill]

My view isn’t complicated and I don’t know that this is a complicated passage. Here’s my take.

"He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit." Peter is talking about the 3 days between His death and the resurrection of Jesus’ body.

"he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits; to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built." This isn’t talking about Noah’s time, but references which spirits Peter is referring to. It’s the spirits at work during Noah’s time, but are now imprisoned.

Jesus came to them to proclaim His victory. Salvation wasn’t the point. He was letting them know that the victory over sin and death had been accomplished.

Peter said that the spirits to whom Jesus preached were the ones who disobeyed during Noah’s time. So who are these spirits? The spirits of men who refused to get on the ark and be saved or the spirits of something else?

I think it refers to the angels held in chains who according to Jude 6 abandoned their positions of authority (watchers?) and left their first estate. Genesis 6:1-4 says they married human women to produce the Nephilim, a primary cause of the flood. Peter mentioned these spirits again in 2 Peter 2:4 as being held in gloomy dungeons. To them Jesus would have asserted His authority.

[Bestill]

" and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,"

The arc wasn’t built overnight and it wasn’t done in secret. Everyone seeing Noah building the arc would have known if they asked him what was coming. None the less, none of them got on the arc or believed the flood would happen. As such, all were lost and only 8 people got on the arc.
In 1 Peter 3:18-22, Peter is speaking of symbols. The flood symbolizes baptism and baptism symbolizes salvation. In reality the flood waters didn’t save Noah’s family. It was their faith to build the ark that saved them. And in reality baptism doesn’t save believers, it’s our faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that saves us. In both cases Peter used the water involved to symbolize the entire event.

[Corlove13]

My view isn’t complicated and I don’t know that this is a complicated passage.

Ok

[TheologyNerd]

The word St. Peter uses here is antitypos, “antitype”. Types and antitypes are important biblical concepts. Moses, for example, was a Type of Christ, Christ is the Antitype. The Exodus is a Type of the redemption which Christ secures by His death and resurrection, the true Exodus is our redemption from sin, death, and the devil. The Passover lamb is the Type, Christ as the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world is the Antitype.

Baptism is the antitype of the water of the flood. In the same way that God saves Noah and Noah’s family through water, so God uses water (Baptism) to save us–not as some mere ritual bath that cleanses the body of dirt, but by a new and transformed conscience before God through the resurrection of Jesus. So Baptism here is the Antitype, the waters of the flood are the Type.

[Bruce_Leiter]

The problem interpreting this text, @Corlove, is that it is a unique text in that it is the only one with this kind of content. I learned in seminary that there are five major interpretations, and no one knows for sure what it really means. That being said, I’ll take a stab at part of it:

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit,
1Pe 3:19 in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison,
1Pe 3:20 because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.
1Pe 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
1Pe 3:22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers having been subjected to him.

The baptism he refers to, I think, is the baptism of the Holy Spirit which all true believers experience and which produces the new birth, faith, and repentance. Therefore, the dying to sin and rising to new life pictured in baptism is that spiritual change that comes through the power that Jesus released when he died and rose from the dead.

However, I leave open the question of when Jesus went to the spirits’ prison. The context supports most of the theories.

[Corlove13]

1. So why would, made “alive in the Spirit” be prefigured? Because if not for Christ , no one afterward could come alive?

He is the first of the resurrected, right?

2. And what exactly does prefigured mean? Representation, a thing formed after some pattern, a thing resembling another, it counterpart , like figure

Counterpart- is a person or thing that holds the same position, function, or characteristics as another person or thing, but in a different place or organization. It can also refer to a duplicate copy of a legal document.

The Text:

In my view- Quickened by the Spirit is the like figure or counterpart

Quicken by the Spirit happens because of Christ resurrection

Quicken by the Spirit gives one a good conscience before God

Hence the Baptism that saves is life by the Spirit, made alive in the spirit, or life with the Spirit.

Scripture reference- 1 John 1:7

1 John 1:7 (KJV) states: “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

It lends itself to commitment to remaining in God’s presence.

Prefigured by Webster

Core Meaning: To serve as an early version, shadow, or prediction of what is to come.

So yes immersion saves us now..

I would call it

Living by the word

Jesus said the words He spoke were Spirit and life

Jesus said His meat was to do the father’s will

Jesus is the living bread from heaven. If a man eats from Him He will never die

…

Immersion refers to the act of completely submerging something in a liquid, or the state of being deeply involved, focused, or absorbed in an activity or subject.

The term spans multiple fields:

• Literal (Physical): Submerging an object in fluid (e.g., dipping fabric in dye or a baptism by total submersion).

• Education & Language: A teaching method where students learn academic subjects entirely through a second language.

• Technology: The sensation of being surrounded by a virtual environment, typically via Virtual Reality (VR) or augmented reality.

• Figurative: Dedicating your full time and attention to a task (e.g., a “language immersion program” or being “immersed in a new culture”)

Looking at the actual definition of immersion/baptism

It looks compound

For it can involve a person, the substance..plus the action itself

Hence- by the resurrection of Christ…could mean?

1. His life
2. God’s power
3. Both
4. Jesus’s life was God revealed
5. Victory
6. Life from the dead
7. Christ’s life
8. God
9. Up lifting
10. Making alive
11. His blood

Immersion- Christ’ life, the actions of God

1. 9Hebrews 4:16 (ESV): “Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.”
2. Hebrews 10:19–22: Explains why we can approach with confidence. It states that we have “confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus” and that our hearts are “sprinkled clean from an evil conscience.”
3. 1 John 1:7: Confirms the cleansing aspect of the sacrifice: “…and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.”

So I’ll just say I believe 1 Peter 3:21’s baptism is an ongoing purification, for the people he’s speaking of most likely have been water baptized. It’s about daily ongoing life, living under God’s rule. For if one is in the light they should also walk in the light.

So while Noah could be a prefigured example of what hope brings, I believe He could do those things He did because he came alive in or by the Spirit. Faith then is an interactive relationship with God

Number 9, under resurrection-taking it face value …resurrection is “uplifting” of the body of Christ. Making something that was dead come back alive.

And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. For in order for us to conquer sin in our members Jesus would have to be made alive.

Ever wonder how His blood works???

[Johann]

No, tell me how this is working.

J.

[Corlove13]

Lol Johann

Who said I know… ?

You see everything I question or write is not that I know. It’s inviting others into meditation upon the word. To participate on the Journey with me. To come to the answer together. The question is posed that those that God may have revealed things to can step out and feel free to answer. Things written on the forum usually are from lenses of the knowledge one has received. It’s not like going to work and one punching in at the time clock.

For me punching the clock doesn’t leave room for others to explore and get to know the person’s heart behind their words. For a person really doesn’t care how much we know until they know how much we care.

In saying that, I don’t know what the blood means to the father. I do know however, is without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.

I guess, it looks like - life for life?