In a nutshell.
As Christians, submitted to God’s divine order, we must consider all that we do in light of how God has established us to function. Unfortunately, some have determined they have a far better design for the church than God originally intended.
Christian feminists have encouraged weaker men, and masculine women are replacing male leadership.
J.
Amen. To all the men out there. Yes. I’m speaking directly to you. You are the head of your household. You are the responsible party. You and you alone are the final decision maker, authority, and Law. I know, I know, some of my more Liberal friends will take issue with this.
Some men I know do not want this role. They would rather the woman handle all things. Or? They have been conditioned to believe that a Marriage is where the two become one, and all things must be agreed upon by a family meeting, and even the children must have a say.
I understand that some see this as old-fashioned, outdated, or even oppressive and chauvinistic. However, this does not change the fact that it is true.
“But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” 1 Corinthians 11:3
Am I suggesting that a woman must submit to abuse or suffer the whims of her husband? Of course not. What I am saying is that it is the man’s responsibility to be the hunter, gatherer, protector, provider, comforter, decision-maker, and leader. Men, your wife is a gift from God.
“Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. She watches over the ways of her household, and does not eat the bread of idleness. Her children rise up and call her blessed; Her husband also, and he praises her:” Proverbs 31
I am Blessed enough to say that I found a Wife that matches this description.
From Eve, women have always been, are, and always will be a gift from God. She was created for man, to be “a help meet for him,” meaning “one who helps.” The Bible teaches that a wife’s duty is to help her husband. God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone,” and so He gave Adam the gift of a woman. Men, you are to see her as such.
“Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:” Ephesians 5:25-29
Christ laid down His life for the Church. We should have that love for our wives. Be willing to do anything. Honor her. Love her. Protect her. Cherish her. Never be abusive. Jesus was never abusive to His Church. That is the point.
However, YOU, men, are responsible. You are the Captain of the ship that will take you both through the years on this voyage called life. Adding children along the way. Where are you taking them? The buck stops with you.
Peter
Yes, I know the scriptural texts you have presented. I attended churches for years that interpreted these texts the way you interpret them. It’s not a new concept to me. It’s not that I’m having a strong initial reaction to them since I’ve been familiar with them for years and was fully on board with your interpretation of them for years as well. It’s more that, as I’ve gotten older and left those churches, I’ve realized that, as much as you or I or anyone else attempts to come to Scripture without our biases and preconceptions, the truth is that it just isn’t possible to be a blank slate, simple absorbing what the Bible says. That’s not to say that there is no ultimate truth, but you and I and everyone else are both deeply formed by our experiences, culture, the country we’re from/live in, the churches we’ve attended, our family of origin, etc.
I think this is precisely why @shalom’s original post on what biblical masculinity/femininity is has sparked so much debate through the centuries—and has shifted with the centuries. As I’ve said, I don’t think women in positions of spiritual leadership is a core doctrine or one that should divide churches. I think Jesus and his Gospel is a lot bigger than this. Honestly, I think this issue can be one that becomes so contentious among Christians that it turns into a stumbling block in the sense that it detracts from proclaiming the Good News without anything extra.
?
You are right that none of us comes to Scripture as a blank slate, we are all shaped by background, culture, and experience, and that influence is real.
But the key issue is what follows from that, because Scripture does not present human bias as a reason its meaning becomes uncertain, rather it presents itself as the very standard that exposes and corrects those biases, as seen in Hebrews 4:12[1].
So the goal is not to become a neutral reader, which is impossible, but to become a corrected reader, one whose assumptions are brought under the authority of the text rather than used to reshape it, which is why Scripture calls us to trust the Lord rather than our own understanding, Proverbs 3:5[2].
In other words, our influences are real, but they are not final, because the Word stands over us to confront, refine, and realign how we think, not the other way around.
We live in an age of confusion, where truth is seen as fluid, morality is dictated by cultural whims, and personal experience often trumps objective reality. From social justice movements redefining ethics to self-help gurus promising enlightenment, people are constantly searching for meaning in sources that cannot ultimately satisfy.
Yet, for Christians, there is one unshakable foundation, the Word of God. In a world where feelings and opinions shift like sand, the Bible remains unchanging, authoritative, and sufficient. It is not merely a collection of religious teachings or moral principles; it is God’s very Word, revealing His will, His character, and His plan for humanity.
The battle over truth is nothing new. From the very beginning, Satan’s strategy was to question God’s Word. In Genesis 3:1, he asked Eve, “Did God actually say…?”-planting seeds of doubt about divine revelation. That same tactic is alive today as many seek to undermine, twist, or add to Scripture. But as believers, we must stand firm on what God has already spoken.
As the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith affirms:
“The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience.” (Chapter 1, Paragraph 1)
If the Bible is truly God’s Word, then it is the final authority, not just for theological discussions, but for every aspect of life. It is the lens through which we understand God, ourselves, and the world around us. It is the guide for salvation, the foundation for godly living, and the standard by which all teachings must be tested.
I’m trying to be very “sensitive” re your plight here sister.
Johann.
For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart - ESV ↩︎
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding - ESV ↩︎
I think there’s an important historical point that needs tightening here, because the idea that this has been a shifting, centuries-long debate in the way you’re describing is not really accurate.
For the vast majority of church history, across different regions, languages, and traditions, the consistent understanding was that the pastoral or elder office was reserved for qualified men, and that wasn’t treated as a secondary or fluid issue but as part of the church’s received apostolic order.
The widespread re-examination of this question is actually quite recent in historical terms, largely emerging in the modern period alongside broader cultural shifts, rather than reflecting an ongoing, evenly divided debate throughout the centuries.
So it’s not so much that the church has always been unsure and is still working it out, but that a long-standing consensus has been challenged in more recent times, which is a different kind of situation altogether.
That doesn’t mean the conversation shouldn’t happen, but it does mean we should be careful not to project our current moment back onto the entire history of the church as if it has always looked like this.
Correct @DaughterOfEve24?
J.
Yes, I think we can agree on your last two posts. I am certainly not arguing against the importance of scripture and the lens it provides us to correct and guide. I think we can probably close the door for now on this discussion. Thank you for the engaging debate (and I mean that genuinely—not being sarcastic!).
And thank you for engaging in this discussion in a calm and respectful way, I do appreciate that and value it.
J.
The issue I have with this, is from personal circumstance, any relationship I enter, the woman will have more experience in not only basic adult knowledge, but likely relationships and what does and doesn’t work.
so I would ultimately defer to them.
which is what I did with my now ex, but will probably do in the future. I was also under the impression that a working healthy relationship is where both parties come together mutually, there are things neither can do alone, or for theirself but in coming together can achieve.
I know very little though regarding this, just going off what feels “right” in my heart.
My wife is in the medical field. If there is something wrong with me (Sigh), she is going to be the first to notice, and the one with the best knowledge on how to find the source or help me. There is nothing wrong with a woman having more knowledge in a given topic or task.
However, God set up the system. God, Jesus the head of the church. Man, the head of the family. The woman is a helpmeet for him and the caretaker of children and of the house. I know this may sound archaic, but it is what it is. God’s plan for family.
This has been misused, abused, twisted, and perverted. It has been used to keep women down and to excuse abuse. Obviously, this is not what God intended, nor does the Word say this. It says we become one—one flesh, one unit, one family. However, it is the man who is to lead, teach, protect, and provide. Therefore, it’s so important for the man to read the Word, pray, and be filled, so he can do so as God desires.
Peter
I think one thing that helps me with this topic is keeping it simple.
When I look at Jesus, I see qualities like humility, strength, compassion, and integrity, and those don’t feel limited to one gender. They show up in different ways depending on the person.
So for me, it becomes less about fitting into a specific definition and more about growing in those core qualities in a way that’s genuine and real in everyday life.
I completely agree with your biblical emphasis, @Johann. Our large church approaches the subject biblically by quietly only electing male elders and choosing male pastors (we have 13). But during my five years as a member, the issue has never been talked about. I think that that is a good way to handle it.