Christ's Olivet Discourse: Signs of the End

[DavyP]

Then those doing such need to retract their condescending remarks to me in posts here.

An example…

@TCC

What is there is charity toward our brother. Charity in consideration of their viewing differences. That principle is there. The ones famous for getting eschatology “right” are pretty much cults. But since you are the one looking at the word, being overly certain of your own views cannot happen to you. How is that assuming you do not have charity towards brothers and sisters in their differing views on eschatology?

@Johann

Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another

@Johann

Do Not Cause Another to Stumble

@TCC

Understanding the deeper things of prophecy yet to come is not “the law.” Why are you confusing law with future to yet be fulfilled prophecy?

@TCC

But the bigger problem i see is groups having your attitude with differing views than yours. Views that would call you demonic for not accepting the pretrib rapture. Views that would call Christians weak and fleshy if they did not see end times as they do. That is pretty ripe today. And a different version of the same commercial vehicle you are driving in.

@TCC

But the problem i see is it is very fleshy and immature for Christians to run around all over the place pointing fingers at those who are wrong about eschatology.

Obviously, the plan with most of those remarks is an attack on my credibility because of me staying with the actual written Bible Scripture.

An example?

TCC doesn’t like the fact of me showing the Biblical evidence for a Post-trib return of our Lord Jesus. Lord Jesus was emphatic that He comes AFTER… the tribulation, AS WRITTEN in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 which directly parallels what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of Christ’s Church at His coming.

Is it thus MY fault that TCC chooses to believe men’s doctrines instead of what Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul taught directly in God’s written Word? Am I the bad guy for telling the Truth of those Bible Scriptures???

And why won’t TCC, et al, actually address those Bible Scriptures I quoted that clearly are for Christ’s Church?

[Dr_S]

@DavyP

There should be little doubt that we are now in the generation that will see Lord Jesus Christ’s coming.

Actually, wolves have been fleecing sheep for 150 years with that message. And i really think that His patience is running out with those who so cravenly disdain His power, goodness, and calling.

Somehow, “ALL power in heaven and in earth” just isn’t quite enough power to domesticate feral nations. I like this brief essay, The Call to Victory, by R. J. Rushdoony:

During the Middle Ages, much of Spain was under Moslem rule. The Christian Spaniards under Arabic government sometimes had serious difficulties but their faith was governed by the knowledge of their calling to dominion. Their order of service in church was known as the Mozarabic Rite, a service which a few years back was used only in one chapel in the Cathedral at Toledo. A remarkable aspect of that service was the use in every service of the proclamation by the pastor of two verses, Psalm 2:7,8:

The Lord hath said unto me: Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Desire of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance: and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

Our Lord has these words in mind in the Great Commission (Matt. 28:18-20), when He sends forth His disciples into all the world, to bring all men and nations under the dominion of and in a saving relationship to Himself.

We have been called in Christ to victory (1 John 5:4), and we dare not shirk that calling. The whole world must know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. His dominion must begin with us. We must be fully commanded by Him, in total obedience to Him, and in all things faithful to Him.

The world must be conquered for Christ. There is no power too great for Him, no evil He cannot conquer, nor any barrier too high for Him to scale.

We have not been called to enjoy ourselves but to serve Him. We live in a world moving from disaster to disaster, and we must not be indifferent to the pressing nature of our crisis. Our world has no hope apart from Christ. If we fail to fulfill Christ’s dominion mandate to us, He will judge us also.

[DavyP]

@Dr_S

Actually, wolves have been fleecing sheep for 150 years with that message. And i really think that His patience is running out with those who so cravenly disdain His power, goodness, and calling.

Somehow, “ALL power in heaven and in earth” just isn’t quite enough power to domesticate feral nations. I like this brief essay, The Call to Victory, by R. J. Rushdoony:
…

All well and good, but that’s still not the subject I’ve been talking about. The parable of a fig tree that Lord Jesus commanded that His followers learn also involves the prophecies given in Jeremiah 24 about the two baskets of figs, one basket of good figs for Judah, and the other basket of evil figs, put for the crept in unawares among Judah.

In that prophecy, God said He would bring Judah back to the holy land and never pluck them up again. He showed that evil basket of figs that went captive with the “house of Judah” to Babylon would also return with Judah. The evil basket is about the false Jews of the “synagogue of Satan” that hide among Judah, and were among the Pharisees and scribes that followed Jesus around trying to find somewhat against Him in order to kill Him.

Only since 1948 when the Jews of the “house of Judah” were made the nation of Israel again was that Jeremiah 24 prophecy fulfilled. Now if the Jews in the holy land are removed again, then that prophecy would still be in abeyance.

(By the way, I’ve been to Toledo, Spain. I didn’t visit the cathedral though, but instead the castle or fort where Spanairds held out during the 1937 civil war. The shops at Toledo had all these swords in barrels that you could buy real cheap. I had planned to buy one before I left, but never did.)

[TCC]

I have addressed some of these. But when i did you thought it was me adding to the word of God by using the word of God. But lets take your current offer brother.

By the way I don’t mind you showing evidence of anything. I purposely sought out 15 hours of the best debate against the pretrib view because i wanted to understand the arguments better. And if they made more sense, I’d change my view. Honestly. So when you provide your view, I mind no evidence. To me you just come across opinionated. Having it all figured out. And I don’t honestly get the sense you are either aware of contrasting nuances or can afford in your own view to acknowledge their “potential” value. Yet then say I am hardened in my own view. I’ve never been hardened in my own view. I just have not seen skilled enough real biblical study to offset pretrib rapture. So I’m still open. You are the one not open to being wrong if you might. So does it really matter what I come back with? lol. But for the sake of playing along…

here goes…lets do one…again…

Matt 24:29-31.

What I shared with you was at least 5 to 20 old testament verses that use this concept of from one end of heaven to another. And in every case, it is dealing with earth focused concepts like the corners of earth (using “the heavens” to make that point).

On this one I don’t think you ever replied to me as I recall. But it is very clear that if the old testament uses from one end of heaven to the other to express events on earth not to highlight “going into heaven” and you want verse 31 to pretend that none of those old testament verses do that, there is no way you are not wrong. You see what you see and it is because i love men’s preaching i cant take my eyes off of pretrib. Then how do i know this argument that seems to keep you silent to address it, while remaining so faithful to your point of view as though nothing was said?

I’ve answered it before and i have answered it again here. Would you like me to pull up a bunch of verses again you won’t address? Or maybe it would be better if you look them up this time. Show you have done the homework? Go ahead? Please. Explain them away.

…

If it escapes why, I see Matt 24:31 as the fulfillment of the parable of the wheat and tares. This is Israel at the end of the age being gathered into the barns, while the reapers in Rev 14 gather those to be burned. You know, just like in Matt 13? Blessings.

[TCC]

I guess this is your way of agreeing with my understanding then? That the 7th vial judges Israel the great city for ever and ever then, right?

[JennyLynne]

further reading for understanding some of the end times discussion

What Is Preterism in End Times Theology?

[DavyP]

@TCC

I guess this is your way of agreeing with my understanding then? That the 7th vial judges Israel the great city for ever and ever then, right?

Nope, I don’t agree with that.

[TCC]

So the reason I am asking is because it it not clear to me what you believe about that great city judged in the 7th vail. What is that then?

[TCC]

I agree with the second part. I don’t think practicing biblical kindness like the word talks about is evil.

But you are correct brother, there is a lot of super bad teaching today. To the extent i believe even the church that would see itself as proper is Laodicean even. Because it is that age I believe. Someone so sold on their views as inspired by God typically a dangerous person. You may not be dangerous, but to me its just vanity. And i wish we could have conversations instead of establishing our imperial royalty. Blessings.

[TCC]

@DavyP

People like you actually are the ‘bigger problem’, because your false attitude is apparently that every believer on Christ Jesus should have their ‘own’ view, when Apostle Paul said those in Christ should be saying the same thing! But you are actually pushing chaos with your viewpoint, because a multitude of different Bible interpretations is the actually meaning the word ‘Babylon’ (i.e. confusion). There are those us who stick with what God’s WRITTEN WORD says, and then those who do not. I will NEVER agree with brethren that seek to LEAVE God’s actual WRITTEN WORD to embrace doctrines of men instead.

No I just see every man a liar. And we are all fallen. And we use what we think we understand better to lord it over others and judge them. Sorry but that is the flesh brother. Authoritarian control “issue” ridden peeps would paint this mosaic. Its the spirit of the age brother. It is the same things the Catholic church does. Nothing new under the sun there brother. But you don’t have to fall pray to your flesh like that. You don’t brother. You can challenge your own self as maybe one not so holy. It might shock, but it can heal too.

I don’t believe their is no accuracy to doctrines. I believe evangelicalism in ways are closer and in some ways fundamentalists and some ways too even the reformed. But in general it is a sea of “we are right and you are wrong.” You have great heritage in that. For you bear your forefathers heart well. I’m just saying that it is good to strive to consider where we might, in our fallen nature, still be wrong. While holding to what we know to be true about the word. It is immature to hold contempt for those who may see differently and be wrong and just stroke ourselves in glee…by contrast. Its sad. Blessing.s And i do mean “blessings.” Because i think yeah we all kind of sad. Amen.