There you go assuming too much again. I don’t struggle with Romans 14, I simply disagree with your private interpretation of it.
And yeah, when reading God’s Word, you are… required to remain on the topic at hand written in the Scripture instead of straying away from it like you did, and then adding your own doctrines into it that are not there.
And once again, you wrongly try to plant FALSENESS into my mouth claiming things I never said. That brands you as an UNTRUSTWORTHY individual, not a brother in Christ Jesus. It shows a lack of honesty in The Word of God because it shows you will make up or say anything and try to present it as the truth. Lord Jesus is watching… you, in case you don’t know.
I NEVER SAID ALL OF JERUSALEM IS DESTROYED WITH CHRIST’S 2ND COMING ON THE LAST 7TH VIAL OF REVELATION 16.
So how many more times are you going to FALSELY CLAIM that I did say such a thing, when that is an idea that CAME UP IN YOUR OWN MIND?
Do Not Pass Judgment on One Another
Rom 14:1 Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion.
Rom 14:2 One person believes that he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables.
Rom 14:3 The person who eats any kind of food must not ridicule the person who does not eat them, and the person who does not eat certain foods must not criticize the person who eats them, for God has accepted him.
Rom 14:4 Who are you to criticize someone else’s servant? He stands or falls before his own Lord—and stand he will, because the Lord makes him stand.
Rom 14:5 One person decides in favor of one day over another, while another person decides that all days are the same. Let each one be fully convinced in his own mind:
Rom 14:6 The one who observes a special day, observes it to honor the Lord. The one who eats, eats to honor the Lord, since he gives thanks to God. And the one who does not eat, refrains from eating to honor the Lord; yet he, too, gives thanks to God.
Rom 14:7 For none of us lives for himself, and no one dies for himself.
Rom 14:8 If we live, we live to honor the Lord; and if we die, we die to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.
Rom 14:9 For this reason the Messiah died and returned to life, so that he might become the Lord of both the dead and the living.
Rom 14:10 Why, then, do you criticize your brother? Or why do you despise your brother? For all of us will stand before the judgment seat of God.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, “As certainly as I live, declares the Lord, every knee will bow to me, and every tongue will praise God.”
Rom 14:12 Consequently, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
Do Not Cause Another to Stumble
Rom 14:13 Therefore, let’s no longer criticize each other. Instead, make up your mind not to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother.
Rom 14:14 I know—and have been persuaded by the Lord Jesus—that nothing is unclean in and of itself, but it is unclean to a person who thinks it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 For if your brother is being hurt by what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not destroy the person for whom the Messiah died by what you eat.
Rom 14:16 Do not allow what seems good to you to be spoken of as evil.
Rom 14:17 For God’s kingdom does not consist of food and drink, but of righteousness, peace, and joy produced by the Holy Spirit.
Rom 14:18 For the person who serves the Messiah in this way is pleasing to God and approved by people.
Rom 14:19 Therefore, let’s keep on pursuing those things that bring peace and that lead to building up one another.
Rom 14:20 Do not destroy God’s action for the sake of food. Everything is clean, but it is wrong to make another person stumble because of what you eat.
Rom 14:21 The right thing to do is to avoid eating meat, drinking wine, or doing anything else that makes your brother stumble, upset, or weak.
Rom 14:22 As for the faith you do have, have it as your own conviction before God. How blessed is the person who has no reason to condemn himself because of what he approves!
Rom 14:23 But the person who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not act in faith; and anything that is not done in faith is sin.
For the sake of the readers.
J.
You are just all over the place, showing a major lack of accurate Bible study. Interesting enough, I run into that kind of mindset often with those deceived into the false pre-trib rapture theory. They don’t really study God’s Word accurately for themselves, which is how they are so easily duped by false preachers they heed instead.
There is only 2 comings by Lord Jesus Christ prophesied in The Old Testament (See Zechariah 9:9-10).
Christ’s 1st coming was meek as a lamb to die on the cross for the remission of sins of those who believe. His 2nd coming will be when He ‘literally’… will take rule over the whole earth over all peoples and over all nations, including the wicked.
His Kingdom from the time of the cross up to His future 2nd coming is about His Kingdom established on earth VIA THE HOLY SPIRIT. It does not represent His future ‘literal’ physical Kingdom that will be established here on earth over all nation when He returns. The true Church today is His Church by The Holy Spirit. And it is FAITH on Jesus Christ, his death and resurrection, that is directly linked to giving of The Holy Spirit to those who believe (Galatians 3:13-14).
There will be only ONE APPEARING by Lord Jesus at His future 2nd coming, because that is all that is written about. Your false belief that He raptures the Church prior to His 2nd coming return is a DOCTRINE OF MEN, and is not written in God’s Word.
On the “day of the Lord”, which is the last day of this present world, that is when Jesus will appear coming in the clouds and the unbelieving Jews will see Him, and then those of true Israel that rejected Him will then mourn for Him. On that “day of the Lord”, when Paul’s “last trump”, the 7th trumpet sounds, and God’s cup of wrath with the 7th Vial is poured out upon the earth, all that COINCIDES with Jesus’ appearing in the clouds with ONLY His saints that He brings with Him FROM HEAVEN (1 Thess.4:13-16). Then the saints still alive on earth are “caught up” to Him in the “air”, with His resurrected saints, and they all GO WITH JESUS TO THE MOUNT OF OLIVES EAST OF JERUSALEM, ON EARTH (See 1 Thess.4:17 and Zech.14).
And I do not pass judgment on others. That is Lord Jesus’ Power only given Him by The Father.
But I can… WARN… brethren of their error, IF… they are in error. And trying to use Romans 14 so the children of darkness can push ANY DOCTRINE OF MEN THEY WANT is deserving of MAJOR REBUKE. If Apostle Paul were alive and heard the junk you and TCC are trying to pass off about Romans 14, Paul would have a fit!
Oh, maybe some here need reminding of what else Paul said…
1 Tim 1:8-11
8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
KJV
OH NO!!! You and TCC, what Paul said there in 1 Timothy 1 just won’t do! Because one would have to JUDGE the ungodly and sinner for what Paul said there to apply. And I love Paul for saying that 11th verse, “According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.”
I hate to bring this up brethren in Christ here on this Forum, but it appears it is needed.
World Communism is still very active and alive today. In case brethren are not aware, one of Soviet Communism’s long-range strategies against the Christian West is to infiltrate the Churches and preach pacifist dogma and disarmament. Moscow even holds religious summits for Christian pastors from time to time. This is where they try to use the ‘judge not lest ye be judged’ quote by Lord Jesus to get Christians to just lay down to their anti-Christian communist policies.
In Luke 22, when Jesus was sending out His disciples on the road in final, to preach The Gospel, He told them that whoever had extra clothing or money, to go buy a sword if they didn’t have one. That means a SWORD FOR SELF DEFENSE. Because He commanded them to do that, means His saying to love thine enemy and turn the other cheek involves a different situation than self-defense from a murderer or soldier in war. The turn the other cheek idea resulted from having preached The Gospel, and the enemies of Christ slap you on the cheek for doing so, a major mark of disgrace in the era of Lord Jesus’ 1st coming. Offer them the other cheek also in that case. A slap is not the same idea as a thief or murderer coming at you with a weapon to try and kill you.
Paul in 1 Timothy 1 and 1 Corinthians 6 reiterates things in God’s law that are STILL IN EFFECT IN CHRISTIAN SOCIETY. It is stll against the law today to do murder, thefts, perjury, those things that Paul listed. And the sinner doing those things can put them in jail or prison. This is why Paul in the previous ROMANS 13 CHAPTER preached that we still have to be subject to the HIGHER POWERS, because God is Who has put them in power. God GAVE THEM THE POWER TO JUDGE, EVEN ‘DEATH PENALTY’ JUDGMENTS FOR MURDER.
What is there is charity toward our brother. Charity in consideration of their viewing differences. That principle is there. The ones famous for getting eschatology “right” are pretty much cults. But since you are the one looking at the word, being overly certain of your own views cannot happen to you. How is that assuming you do not have charity towards brothers and sisters in their differing views on eschatology?
Here is the comment I am referring to.
Brother I did not say you said. I said you cannot conceive how I see that. That is not putting words in your mouth. Please don’t use it conveniently in the temporal flesh by not staying with the argument.
AGAIN – ON THAT ISSUE:
You have stated that earthly Jerusalem is the great city. I asked you how is it that God judges the great city in the final vial judgement while inviting them into the Millennial kingdom setting up rulership from Jerusalem.
If I had your argument, trying to put myself honestly in your shoes, I would likely say: "The great city is Jerusalem. And it does get judged by God for being that wicked city. And God does destroy it. And then He sets up a new one He rules from during the thousand year reign. – That is what I would understand the answer to likely be. And if so, its not an entirely bad argument.
Rev 16
**19 **The great city [i]was split into three parts, and the cities of the [j]nations fell. Babylon the great was remembered in the sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of [k]His fierce wrath.
Rev 19
3 then shows the heavenly chorus praising God, noting that Babylon’s smoke will rise “forever and ever,” emphasizing the permanence of her judgment
So what I am asking is if you see Jerusalem as the great city synonymous with Babylon the Great “great city” then it is in judgement on display forever. And I am asking that because those would be the implications. So I am not sure why we are not talking about the same thing. So what is difference then what I am presenting according to your view then?
Understanding the deeper things of prophecy yet to come is not “the law.” Why are you confusing law with future to yet be fulfilled prophecy? Paul also wrote 1 Cor 13. He warned against having all knowledge and not having love.
I can’t speak for Johann (whom by the way on other threads are often in pretty stern disagreements brother), but do I see different views of eschatology as a problem in the church? Yes. I do. But the bigger problem i see is groups having your attitude with differing views than yours. Views that would call you demonic for not accepting the pretrib rapture. Views that would call Christians weak and fleshy if they did not see end times as they do. That is pretty ripe today. And a different version of the same commercial vehicle you are driving in. You just happen to be post trib rapture if i understand correctly.
But the problem i see is it is very fleshy and immature for Christians to run around all over the place pointing fingers at those who are wrong about eschatology. So I will use Jesus own words to demonstrate my point:
John 15:12-17
12 “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. **13 **Greater love has no one than this, that a person will lay down his life for his friends. **14 **You are My friends if you do what I command you. **15 **No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, because all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. **16 **You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. **17 **This I command you, that you love one another.
In other words, it would appear that those that hear the Father tend to love the brethren. You may say “warning” is love. As the church today has adopted “tough love” stances too. But what was the context in which Jesus said that about love? After He rebuked them for being incorrect? No. It was after the passover meal and foot washing. And that He will lay down His life.