4 “I will record Rahab and Babylon among those who acknowledge me— Philistia too, and Tyre, along with Cush — and will say, ‘This one was born in Zion.’ ”
5 Indeed, of Zion it will be said, “This one and that one were born in her, and the Most High himself will establish her.”
6 The LORD will write in the register of the peoples: “This one was born in Zion.”
7 As they make music they will sing, “All my fountains are in you.”
The first thing that strikes me is that the Jews of the day must have been puzzled (to say the least) at the implication of God’s love for all these pagan nations that were “born in Zion”. Even more love than for all the tents of Jacob, His chosen people.
Isa 28:16 “So this is what the Lord GOD says: “See, I lay a stone in Zion, a tested stone, a precious cornerstone, a sure foundation; the one who believes will never be shaken.”
So “Zion” is the Christ, and all who believe are born again, into Christ. Maybe Nicodemus should have known?
I know this question is a new thread, that spawned from the topic “Why do people Sin?”, but everyone else mulling about in this open forum may not have caught the subtle connection, so I’m providing it here.
In that other topic you asked:
I’m not sure that is “exactly” what Jesus was doing, although I get your point.
I am a simple man, and so I am simply trying to hear your question in the way you are intending us to hear it. Allow me to wrap some context around the scene to which you are refering.
John 3:1-12
There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him,
“Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God (you have come from above); for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
Jesus answered and said to him,
“Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again (Gk:ánōthen,from above), he cannot see the kingdom of God (which is above).”
Nicodemus said to Him,
“How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered,
"Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh (from below), is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit (from above) is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, 'You must be born again (Gk:ánōthen, from above).’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit (from above)."
Nicodemus answered and said to Him,
“How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him,
"Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
Nicodemus, by asking “How can these things be?”, was asking how it was possible that some, born in the flesh, people are also “born” from The Kingdom of God above (am I right here?). So you are suggesting (correct me if I’m wrong) that Jesus was implying (by his chastisement) that Nicodemus, being a teacher of Israel, should have been able to put together the implications of the words in an inspired song of the Sons of Korah with the fresh way of stating this old idea; i.e. a good teacher should readily comprehend that in order to “see the Kingdom of God”, one must be “born from it”. Furthermore, Jesus expects that Nicodemus must be able to see through this veil without the indwelling Holy Spirit of God illuminating him?
Psalm 87
His foundation is in the holy mountains.
The LORD loves the gates of Zion More than all the dwellings of Jacob.
Glorious things are spoken of you, O city of God! Selah
“I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon to those who know Me;
Behold, O Philistia and Tyre, with Ethiopia: ‘This one was born there.’ "
And of Zion it will be said, “This one and that one were born in her;
And the Most High Himself shall establish her.”
The LORD will record, When He registers the peoples: "This one was born there.” Selah
Both the singers and the players on instruments say,
“All my springs are in you.”
You say:
I see your point, and I sincerely appreciate the connection you are implying; drawing a dark solid line between the John 3 dialogue and Psalm 87, specifically the references to being both “born in” Zion, and The Kingdom of God. From my simpleton point of view, Nicodemus probably taught the meaning of this Psalm to his students, teaching it from within the milieu of rabbinic tradition. Something like:
“God will eventually call some people from other, gentile nations into the sheepfold of Israel, at some point, and they will become to God as one who was born from Jacob."
It feels to me that Jesus is drawing that solid line between what Nicodemus has taught, and what Jesus, and His disciples, have been testifying;
“We testify of what we clearly know and have plainly seen, and you don’t believe our testimony, how will you believe me when I tell you things that no one but me has ever known or seen?
In other words,
“Nick, you are having difficulty accepting the things that are right in front of your eyes, how will you believe things that have never been seen by any human but me. How? By being born from above. That’s how.
I’m still thinking about this. Thanks for the prompt.
KP
I don’t think you’re wrong lol so no pardons offered!
It does seem to me to be short interpretive span to say that members of all these pagan nations are born in her (in Zion). Not the whole nation, but “this one and that one.” The only way they could be born into their native country AND in Zion, would be if they were born once and then born again.
And then thrilling verse 6 - “I will write in the register of the peoples: ‘This one was born in Zion.” Sounds like the Lamb’s book of life to me.
Nicodemus, as a Pharisee and teacher of Israel, almost certainly knew Psalm 87, since it was part of the Psalter used in temple liturgy. The psalms were sung, memorized, and expounded in synagogue worship, and a Pharisee of Nicodemus’ standing would have been steeped in them. Psalm 87 is a striking text because it declares that foreigners will be reckoned as “born in Zion” and that God Himself will record their names as citizens of His holy city.
Now when Jesus tells Nicodemus in John 3 that he must be “born again” (Greek gennēthē anōthen, born from above), He is not inventing a brand-new concept. The Old Testament had already sown seeds of new birth language. Ezekiel 36:26-27 promised a new heart and new Spirit. Isaiah 66:7-9 pictured Zion giving birth to children. Psalm 87 uniquely speaks of God Himself declaring people from the nations as newly “born in Zion.”
Nicodemus would have known that natural Jewish birth gave covenantal status, but Psalm 87 shattered that assumption by declaring that even Egyptians, Babylonians, and Philistines could be reckoned as born into Zion by divine decree. Jesus presses this same truth directly into Nicodemus’ heart. Being physically born into Israel is not enough. One must be born of water and Spirit, that is, regenerated by God’s Spirit through the new covenant.
So the answer is yes, Nicodemus very likely knew Psalm 87. But he did not yet see its fulfillment. He knew the words, but Christ revealed their reality. Zion’s birth-record was never about ethnic descent but about God’s sovereign act of new birth through the cross and Spirit. That is why Jesus rebukes him in John 3:10: “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things?” He should have recognized that Psalm 87 and Ezekiel 36 already pointed to a Spirit-wrought rebirth that transcends physical lineage.
Yeah good call - and He goes on to point out what’s coming next. The Jews were expecting a conquering messiah who would exalt Israel over the other nations, not a suffering savior who would welcome “whosoever will believe”, from every nation, with God’s supreme love and life everlasting.
Nicodemus was stumped, unable to deny that Jesus came from God because of all His miracles, but who otherwise didn’t at all fit their expectations.
But, to his credit, it seems that Nicodemus had the heart to search for God’s truth rather than follow the example of the politically minded supremacist leadership.
It’s rich that Jesus saw right to his heart from the beginning, and didn’t waste any words getting to the point.
Nick - “We know you’re from God”
Jesus - “You must be born again”
Nicodemus is falling back on all their years of study, memorization, and endless recitations. “We know” he says. Jesus tells him that it’s right there, right in front of him, if they will only listen to the Spirit of God.
Don’t be surprised again when the Son of Man is lifted up, just like Moses lifting up the serpent, for all to see and have faith in God. Don’t be surprised when your messiah turns out to be the suffering servant of Isa 53 and Psalm 22.
Nick: We know you must come from God because how else could the things you do be explained?
Jesus: Well, you could not even “know” that unless you have been born from God. You acknowledge my origin, you know I am from God; therefore, God must have revealed this to you because you also are born from above, you just don’t know it yet."
Nicodemus showing up again to entomb the body of Jesus (Jn 19:39) speaks to this potentiality.
Your retelling is partly correct but it presses the words of Jesus further than the text allows. Let’s weigh it carefully against John 3.
Nicodemus begins by acknowledging that Jesus must be from God because of the signs (John 3:2). Jesus answers abruptly, “Unless one is born again/from above (gennēthē anōthen), he cannot see the kingdom of God” (John 3:3). Notice the shift. Jesus does not affirm Nicodemus’ statement as proof of new birth. Instead, He challenges him. Recognition of miracles does not equal regeneration. In John’s Gospel many people “believed” in Jesus because of His signs, but Jesus did not entrust Himself to them, because He knew their hearts (John 2:23-25). Nicodemus’ statement falls into that same category.
So it would not be precise to say, “You acknowledge my origin, therefore you must already be born from above.” Rather, Jesus confronts Nicodemus with the truth that unless he experiences new birth, his perception is incomplete. What Nicodemus saw was real, but it was not saving sight. Only Spirit-birth grants true sight of the kingdom.
Where your paraphrase does line up with Johannine theology is in the hint that Nicodemus’ journey was not finished in John 3. His later appearances show progression. In John 7:50-51 he appeals for fairness regarding Jesus, and in John 19:39 he boldly helps to bury Jesus’ body. These movements suggest that the Spirit may indeed have brought him into true new birth, but the Gospel of John does not explicitly confirm it. His honorable burial act is a strong indicator of faith, but the evangelist leaves it open-ended, inviting readers to ask whether Nicodemus finally received the life from above.
In short, your paraphrase captures the trajectory of Nicodemus’ story but misstates the force of Jesus’ words in John 3. Jesus is not affirming Nicodemus as already born from above, but pressing him into the necessity of it. The later burial scene may reveal that this rebirth did take place, but John leaves that as a narrative conclusion the reader is invited to draw.
Edit, something you may have missed.
Greek Text (John 3:7)
Μὴ θαυμάσῃς ὅτι εἶπόν σοι· δεῖ ὑμᾶς γεννηθῆναι ἄνωθεν.
“Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You (plural) must be born from above.’”
Parsing
Μὴ θαυμάσῃς (mē thaumasis) = “Do not marvel,” second person singular, aorist subjunctive, addressing Nicodemus directly. Jesus is telling him not to be astonished.
ὅτι εἶπόν σοι (hoti eipon soi) = “that I said to you,” first person singular aorist active, Jesus referring back to His earlier statement.
δεῖ (dei) = “it is necessary, it must happen.” This is an impersonal verb used often in John for divine necessity (cf. John 3:14 “the Son of Man must be lifted up”). It expresses not suggestion but binding requirement.
ὑμᾶς (hymas) = “you” plural. Here Jesus broadens His address. He began with Nicodemus in the singular, but now He expands it to all people, showing that the new birth is universal in necessity, not just for Nicodemus.
γεννηθῆναι (gennēthēnai) = “to be born,” aorist passive infinitive of gennaō (to beget, to give birth). Passive voice shows the subject does not cause his own birth, but receives it. Spiritual birth is God’s act, not human effort.
ἄνωθεν (anōthen) = adverb meaning “from above” or “again.” John uses it elsewhere for “from above” (John 3:31, 19:11, James 1:17). The double sense is intentional. Nicodemus hears it as “again” (v. 4), but Jesus means “from above.” The new birth is a heavenly birth by God’s Spirit.
Force of the verse
Jesus confronts Nicodemus’ marveling by intensifying the truth. This is not optional, it is a divine necessity. Without heavenly birth from God’s Spirit, no one, whether Pharisee or pagan, can enter the kingdom. The plural “you” makes clear the universality. The passive “to be born” highlights grace—man does not cause this, God does. The word anōthen drives home that the origin of this birth is not earth but heaven, not flesh but Spirit.
Placed in the larger context of John 3, this is anchored in the cross. Just as the Son of Man must be lifted up (John 3:14-15), so the Spirit must give new birth (John 3:5-7). Regeneration and crucifixion are bound together, the Spirit applies the life Christ secured at Calvary.
Yes, I see what you are teaching. I appreciate it.
There is that chronological considerstion too, that since The Christ had not, in time and space, died and raised as the firstfruit of salvation as yet, the gospel, as we recite it, was not understood as we understand it. Nicodemus, like many saints of old surely looked forward to the consolation and restoration of Israel in The Christ. He seemed more open than his peers to entertaining the idea that “The Kingdom of Heaven was in their midst” (at hand). I was thinking that Jesus, knowing to the extent that he did, all that God had given to him (Jn 17:12, 18:9),that Nicodemus was among that “throng”.
Speculation, I know. I appreciate your understanding of this passage.
I want to add a quick edit to my response to you @KPuff.
Greek Text (John 3:7)
Μὴ θαυμάσῃς ὅτι εἶπόν σοι· δεῖ ὑμᾶς γεννηθῆναι ἄνωθεν.
“Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You (plural) must be born from above.’”
When we look at the Greek, the force of the text becomes unmistakable. Jesus shifts from the singular “you” to the plural “you,” showing this is a universal necessity, not just for Nicodemus.
Brother, when the Greek and Hebrew are allowed to speak, the meaning stands firm and speculation falls away.
Unto thee - ye must
Note the change from the singular to the plural pronoun. In his address to Nicodemus (thee) the Lord had spoken also to those whom Nicodemus represented, and whom he had included when he said “we know” (Jhn_3:2). His error was the error of his class.
Vincent.
Appreciate your responses. Read this verse from Wuest.
@Pater15, what do you mean by your question about Nicodemus?
The Psalm certainly looks forward to the early church’s outreach, especially through Paul, but the Old Testament, here and in Isaiah, definitely calls Israel to be so attractive spiritually that the nation will attract people from other nations like Rahab and Ruth. Basically, they fail at their job of attracting unbelieving people.
Jonah is a perfect example. He is a true prophet, but he doesn’t see the opportunity God has given him to preach in Nineveh; he only sees them as enemies. Then, he is extremely disappointed when they repent.
Amen @Pater15 , it was wonderful discussing this with you. I truly enjoy learning from you. I’ve been reading the Bible for 15 years, yet every time I revisit a verse—even one I’ve read countless times—I discover new and subtle meanings I hadn’t noticed before. It’s truly endless, brother.
I mean that It seems like Jesus is mildly chiding Nicodemus for his lack of understanding of what He was talking about.
Nicodemus answers saying “How can this be? Can we return to the mother’s womb and be born a second time?”
Jesus’ questioning implies that Nicodemus (as a teacher in Israel) SHOULD know what it means. Then, we might logically ask, how should Nicodemus know? Does the Old Testament, that Nicodemus had access to ever say anything about being born again?
I think it does, in many places. But possibly the clearest direct reference would be Psalm 87, with others referencing letting the Spirit of God bring revelation to those that “have ears to hear, and eyes to see.”
I think, @Pater15, that Nicodemus should have also thought about Ezekiel 36:20, a passage that describes the new birth in Old Testament terms for Israel that turns out to be a believing remnant of them.
Eze 36:24 I will take you from the nations and gather you from all the countries and bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean from all your uncleannesses, and from all your idols I will cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.