To reason this way, one must know for sure. For example, have you thought about what is around the Sun? Have you considered why our planet is positioned just right for us humans—not too hot and not too cold? Or, for instance, why have the larvae of wasps never seen their mother? Here’s why: the wasp finds a praying mantis and stings it in such a way that it doesn’t die but becomes paralyzed. Then, she lays her larvae on it and dies, while the larvae hatch and consume it, repeating everything just like their mother. And the little hummingbird that crosses the ocean, and flies—these are also necessary, as they are nature’s sanitizers, consuming carrion and cleaning the environment. And we, humans, when someone sees something terrifying or inexplicable, what do they say? They say, “My friend, oh my God! Look closely and clearly, and you will see how perfectly everything is arranged, without flaw, because all of this was created by God, and this is His Glory. For this, we must be thankful, my friend. If we say that this is a monstrosity and that it is wrong, it tarnishes our reputation. There are moments when human actions cause changes in nature: take, for example, the atomic bomb or factories that pollute the planet, deforestation, shale oil extraction, and much more. And then we sit and say that this is a monstrosity, that this is evil. For a native on an island who has never seen lighters or smartphones, you would be a god to them. One simply needs to know the basics, and then some things will not seem miraculous to you.
Have you seen a child born with severe defects? Disease? Death? Destruction? Are you willing to make God the creator of all this?
Yes, I do. And that doesn’t make God evil.
God created the lion and the lamb and the grass. God created the virus, the fungus, and the bacteria.
God created a world that recycles itself. Predator and prey. It is a natural phenominom.
Death removes life to make room for new life. Otherwise nothing could exist. A world would have to have infinite space and resources to sustain itself without death. Or else new life, babies, could not be born.
Destruction makes room for a new creation. Boundaries were created to maintain life. God created the pontential consequences to maintain the boundaries. We are the ones who choose to cross those boundaries and face the consequences for those actions.
God said be fruitful. He didn’t say overwhelm the world. We don’t teach our children to be responsible for their hormones. Some of us don’t even talk about sex. So what do they do? Act like rabbits. And lie to your face about being innocent. Because it is easier to be selfish than act like an adult. Especially for a teenager, who isn’t an adult and who one day suddenly gets a very human urge to procreate their brains out.
What do we do? Use guilt, shame, stern finger wagging and a scolding? What do they do? Develope sex addictions and better lying skills. And then go crazy when you aren’t looking. Meanwhile becoming adults who have no issue being unfaithful. The world gets filled with unwanted babies. This is the by product of a Puritan nation. Google if other non Puritan nations struggle with alcoholism and sex addiction like we do. Or population issues.
What’s the next best step? Condoms. Birth control. Getting clipped. But no, we refuse to take responsibility and blame it on a scripture.
So what does God do? Shake the earth, throw some people off. Quicken the developement of viruses, increase predators, cause a rise in human infertility and birth defects. All to ensure human life is shortened and populations decrease enough so the world is not destroyed by our selfish over consumption and lack of responsibility.
Because if we don’t take responsibility God has to.
Also, you are looking at all of these things from a human perspective, from what pain and suffering humans endure. God created the capacity to experience pain to teach us what to walk away from. If we choose to pursue the pain, that is on us.
Meanwhile, God still remains. God does not back away. God is with us.
From God’s perspective, we don’t cease to exist. There is no death in eternity. This is momentary in the midst of forever. Will you remember that your watch was stolen from you after a million years have passed? Will it matter that someone was murdered if we go on to exist where death doesn’t?
That kind of existence is other dimensional. God sees all of time in a flicker. And is the same God knowing all things in that second. We can’t begin to imagine what that is like where we stand.
Meanwhile back here on Earth there are those who are called to stand here for God, those who are very human who are standing right here with you through the pain and sorrow and struggles and addictions, and suffering, all the while enduring and overcoming their own so they can become examples amongst you, an inspirtion, and leaders to help you find the way through, who learn to listen to God and follow His lead, and develop a heart, an empathy that cares for all life, who reach a point where guided by the Holy Spirit they come to see past the lies and delusions of this age, the misconceptions and misplaced blame and the scapegoating. Who try to counter the ignorance and selfishness as they attempt to guide this world to love itself better so these judgements and sufferings don’t have to transpire. We give God no choice but to act if we fail.
Maybe read the book of Job for a little perspective.
And if the world is crowded where you live… move. Consider Wyoming, Nebraska, Alaska, Alberta…
Be fruitful and multiply-- I’m gonna throw some of you off----- is NOT how the scripture was given.
Be not ignorant of one thing… God is not willing that any should perish… For God so loved the world…
i did read Job. You just reiterated my point. All my points actually… Thank you.
Its a discussion about how God does not share the same perspective as humans. (Who are you,) or so it goes, (to say this about me when you have never done (all the things God has done.)) We cannot question anything that happens, including birth defects, because we do not know the mind of God nor can we fathom all if God’s greatness. We can’t know it from our teeny tiny hyman perspectuve. Nor can we judge it.
Your point? Job is a book of questions, and your point is that we can’t question anything that happens? wowza.
The point of Job is the misdirection and mistake of assigning blame to God, when all God did was sit back and let Satan do his worst.
Your two-edged argument seems to insist that it’s all very simple on one side, and at once-- too difficult for our teeny tiny brains to comprehend on the other… to put it bluntly, your sword seems to lack a point altogether.
“Job” is an archetype of all men… blameless before God, like Adam, like Eve… and Satan comes accusing, deceiving, destroying. Don’t blame God-- He didn’t create evil… He gave men and angels alike the ability to do that on our own.
Yes. 100 percent.
He is the same God and He is worthy to be praised and thanked in all things. The reply I posted was in no way to find any inconsistency with the Most High. Only to point out that His Word is truth. He created all things.
As a mother and father having their first child, they want the best of all things for it. As the child grows they will eventually disobey their parents. We all do. As loving parents, they would correct and or punish the child out of love. Yet the parents had to know what evil was or what was bad for their child before the child was even born.
So is God with us but on a much more higher level of love. We are created in His image and are beings of free will to choose between good and evil. There is no evil in Him. Yet, He did create evil. His Word says He created it. Evil is the very definition of what sin is. Sin is evil and draws its power from the Law of God when it is disobeyed.
Forgive me, I didn’t mean to challenge your point without context. I must have been rushing out somewhere. I do very much agree with you regarding the sovereignty of God in all things. I just happen to believe that there is much more to the story that we need to consider.
I bring this up for discussion, not to diminish your point, but to illuminate it. The verse you quote in Isaiah says “I make peace and create evil” and my question invites a rabbit hole conversation that few would want to fall into about “who” the speaker making these boasts is. I ask-- does it sound like the Father, Jesus describes? That’s number one.
Secondly-- the word used here for evil (ra) means “bad” or more exactly “calamity” and it’s offered as the opposite of peace (shalom). The concept is that God brings about peace and also disturbs the peace, presumably always for a purpose assuming the speaker is the ‘our Father’ Jesus taught us, who loves us as that Father and always guides and protects.
But in Isaiah- it speaks more broadly of elohim (which is a plurality of gods) and later in that same 45th chapter we see the speaker as one who doesn’t always have good in mind. Clearly the speaker in Isaiah 45 is making references to being there ‘in the beginning’ as one who is spoken of in Genesis 1.
I made the earth;
I created the people who live on it.
It was me—my hands stretched out the sky.
I give orders to all the heavenly lights.
Clear pointing. So let’s go look at that section of scripture. It’s fascinating when you consider the Hebrew, which states “In the beginning” (of this story)–elohim created the heavens and the earth.
To understand the story-- you really have to consider this elohim concept that the translators ignored in favor of the very generic “God” used over and over, when elohim is the original and correct usage.
Before reading the Scriptures, one must pray to God for the Holy Spirit through the Lord Jesus Christ in order to understand the Scriptures! Furthermore, when we read, there are symbols next to the words (*, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc., and letters) — these indicate parallel verses or explanations. One should not take a verse literally; it is important to read the full context. Remember that translations vary: in Hebrew, for example, it is quite different, and there is also Aramaic — everything is different there as well. Therefore, anything written or spoken should be checked a hundred times.
For example, the word “key.” When you hear this word, what do you think? You need to hear the entire context to understand what is being referred to: a door key or a clean water key. You understand me, don’t you?
[quote=“MrE, post:67, topic:2902, full:true”]
Your point? Job is a book of questions, and your point is that we can’t question anything that happens? wowza.
oh we can question. Question away. Questions are wonderful. I do it all the time. But will you understand the answers?
The point of Job is the misdirection and mistake of assigning blame to God, when all God did was sit back and let Satan do his worst.
well first, doing nothing to stop evil is the same as doing evil. Like for instance, people who know a crime is taking place and do nothing to stop it are considered an assessory to the crime. Also, God did do something. God suggested Job to Satan knowing where it would lead. They even discussed what Satan could and could not do… So one can hardly say God did nothing.
But the book of Job was never about us asking our questions… The whole reason Job goes through this trial has nothing to do with Job. God is making a point about love to Satan. Satan believes that Job only worships God for the blessings. He is arguing that Job’s love is transactional. Real love must be unconditional. Will Job still love God when all the blrssings are stripped away? Love is not about what you can get out of it.
“Job” is an archetype of all men… blameless before God, like Adam, like Eve… and Satan comes accusing, deceiving, destroying. Don’t blame God…
I am not the one blaming God. Who am I to know the mind of God?
No -it isn’t. It’s not even remotely the same. It’s just a spin you put on the old addage - “All that is required for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing.”
But doing nothing (evil nor good) is not “the same” as doing nothing to stop evil.
Maybe some people familliar with law should weigh in.
As for the Bible tho:
- James 4:17:
“So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for them it is sin.”
Proverbs 24:11–12 says, Rescue those who are being led away to death; hold back those staggering toward slaughter
Ephesians 5:11
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
I’m familiar with the law… 
Doing nothing when a crime is being committed might be distasteful, unacceptable or even immoral. For instance a woman was lit on fire recently on a New York subway. Many people saw this and stood helplessly by as she burned to death. They were not considered culpable and certainly not on par with the illegal migrant who lit the woman aflame.
Interesting … Good to know… Filing that away…
Absolutely no offense taken!
Also, pardon my bluntness in my original comment. I’m a noob. This is the first Christian sight I have joined.
Now you talk about Elohim. Just as man was created a little lower than the angels, I can scarcely comprehend what another ‘god’ is. I do believe the Most High created them.
As in Psalm 82 prophesied by Asaph. The first verse states,
God(Elohim) standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods(elohim)
Verse 6,
I have said, Ye are gods(elohim); and all of you are children of the most High.
The entire chapter is fascinating and rarely preached to this day.
But then I am led to John 10:33-36,
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
If he called them gods(elohim), unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
The word sanctified caught me as if Jesus Himself was among them, though He was from the beginning of all things yet God set Jesus apart even before the world began (John 17:5.)
Thank you for the awesome knowledge, God has given you and share with us!
If you are interested, perhaps this can be the first little rabbit trail we track. There are no capital letters per se, in Hebrew. That’s the work of scribes and translators who. instead of writing elohim, they chose to replace it with generic god, or capitalized God, without much to differentiate beyond their feelings. Similarly they write Lord, or LORD when the word in the text is actually Yahweh, or Jehovah, or simply lord.
It’s worth considering-- and I’ll explain why in depth here
there are also no vowels. So some words could be interpreted differently. There are fun rabbonic interpretations because of this.
A fun story and discussion about the interpretation of a word in the old testament and the belief that those in the line of Joseph are protected from the evil eye.
You do realize that Berakhot, and Mishna, and Talmud are not scripture, right?
Teachings, and oral traditions, are simply opinions of various Rabbis and not scriptural text.
My point, mre, is about how easily an interpretation can be mistaken or altered.
You can claim Scripture is unerring, btw, but that does not change the fact that the Christian Bible was put together less than 2000 years ago by a group of select men who did not represent the totality of the Christian church at that time. All the while under the direction of a Roman emporer with ulterior motives and bias.
The religion was intentionally shaped to help conquer lands for Rome, with the church going as far as celebrating Christ’s birth at the opposite time of the year during a Pagan celebration, (his death ironically falling close to another one,) and then turning the gods and goddesses of these cultures into recorded Saints, Satan, demons and angels in our larger historical church heritage.
Nor does it change the fact that more than half of said book belongs to another culture’s religion, a stunt that is not too different from John Smith’s version of a sequel in America. That being said, I think insight in how that culture interprets the Word is necessary if not respectful.
As Jeremiah (8:8) says,
How can you say, “We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD,” when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely? (Wasn’t he murdered for speaking up?)
Or Mathew (13: 24-43),
Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
Mark chapter 4: 13 shows seed to refer to God’s Word.
Then Jesus said to them, “Don’t you understand this parable? How then will you understand any parable? 14 The farmer sows the word. 15 Some people are like seed along the path, where the word is sown. As soon as they hear it, Satan comes and takes away the word that was sown in them.
Jesus, after all spent quite a bit of his time tweaking what people believed in his own time. If the Word of God had not been altered, why would he need to?
It is funny how we have an account of young king Josiah being approached by the priests with an exclamation that a lost book of the Law had been found. A young king so eager to obey God that he lifted this lost book up only to, according to his enemy, die in judgement later.
And, funnier still, that we currently have two nearly identical books in the Old Testament. Exodus and Deuteronomy. Except for a few minor tweaks…
The scribes have lied, indeed.
False prophets appear disguised as faithful servents to the Lord all the time only to decieve people into their own destruction. Could you ever trust a man to keep God’s Word, when they have such trouble keeping their own? Yet we hinge faith on the idea that these special men so long ago did God a solid.
Instead of teaching people not to question, it would be better to teach people how to cut that book in two… How to tell the kingdom of God from the devil’s own.