Do the 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today?

Theology
142

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth” (John 1:1–3, 14).

This passage gives clear testimony that the eternal Word, who is co-eternal with God and of the same essence as God, took on human flesh and made His dwelling (“pitched his tent” or “tabernacled”) among us. As the apostle Paul says regarding Jesus, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9).

With that in mind, let’s look more closely at the question. It is certainly true that the penalty for our sins is an eternity in hell. The Bible says that all have sinned (Romans 3:23) and that the wages of our sin is death (Romans 6:23). The book of Revelation says that those whose names aren’t in the Lamb’s book of life are cast into the lake of fire where they will be tormented “forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10, 15).

But how can the death of Jesus atone for the sins of every person who has ever lived? This is where the discussion of Jesus being the God-man comes in. If Jesus were a mere man (with sin of His own), then His death wouldn’t even atone for His own sin, much less the sins of another. But Jesus is no mere man; He is God in human flesh. As a man, He can identify with those for whom He sacrificed Himself. As a perfectly sinless man, He can atone for the sins of mankind without first having to atone for His own sin. Finally, as God, He can fully satisfy the wrath of God that our sins incur.

Sin against an infinite God must be paid infinitely. That is why payment for our sin must be infinite. There are only two options for infinite payment. Either a finite creature (man) must pay for his sin for an infinite amount of time, or an infinite Being (Jesus) must pay for it once for all men for all time. There are no other options. A sin against an infinitely holy God requires an equally infinite satisfaction as payment, and even an eternity in hell will not dissipate God’s infinite, righteous wrath against sin. Only a divine Being could withstand the infinite wrath of a holy God against our sin. It requires an equally infinite Being as a substitute for mankind to satisfy God’s wrath. Jesus, as the God-man, is the only possible Savior.

Therefore, biblically speaking, sin is the violation, death and condemnation are the penalty, and Christ bears the penalty due to sin, satisfying divine justice without Himself becoming a sinner, which preserves both God’s righteousness and the moral perfection of the Messiah, exactly as the cross requires.

Rom_1:27 And the men also turned from natural relations with women and were set ablaze (burning out, consumed) with lust for one another–men committing shameful acts with men and suffering in their own bodies and personalities the inevitable consequences and penalty of their wrong-doing and going astray, which was [their] fitting retribution.

Rom_13:2 Therefore he who resists and sets himself up against the authorities resists what God has appointed and arranged [in divine order]. And those who resist will bring down judgment upon themselves [receiving the penalty due them].

1Co_1:30 But it is from Him that you have your life in Christ Jesus, Whom God made our Wisdom from God, [revealed to us a knowledge of the divine plan of salvation previously hidden, manifesting itself as] our Righteousness [thus making us upright and putting us in right standing with God], and our Consecration [making us pure and holy], and our Redemption [providing our ransom from eternal penalty for sin].

1Co_11:31 For if we searchingly examined ourselves [detecting our shortcomings and recognizing our own condition], we should not be judged and penalty decreed [by the divine judgment].

1Co_15:17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is mere delusion [futile, fruitless], and you are still in your sins [under the control and penalty of sin];

Gal_5:10 [For my part] I have confidence [toward you] in the Lord that you will take no contrary view of the matter but will come to think with me. But he who is unsettling you, whoever he is, will have to bear the penalty.

2Th_1:9 Such people will pay the penalty and suffer the punishment of everlasting ruin (destruction and perdition) and eternal exclusion and banishment from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Heb_2:2 For if the message given through angels [the Law spoken by them to Moses] was authentic and proved sure, and every violation and disobedience received an appropriate (just and adequate) penalty,

Heb_10:18 Now where there is absolute remission (forgiveness and cancellation of the penalty) of these [sins and lawbreaking], there is no longer any offering made to atone for sin.

What’s our penalty? @rstrats ?

J.

1 Like
143

Apparently, our penalty is to spend eternity in the lake of fire being tortured night and day. If so, then the Messiah didn’t substitute Himself by taking our place.

You rightly say that He never committed any sins.

Then you say He can atone for the sins of mankind without first having to atone for His own sin.

However, 2 Corinthians 5:21 says that the Messiah became sin, and what is the penalty for sin - being tortured in the lake of fire for eternity. So, either He’s doing that, or He isn’t.

144

How do you read 2 Cor. 5.21 @rstrats ?

2Co 5:21 [God] made ἐποίησεν, Him who τὸν knew γνόντα no μὴ sin ἁμαρτίαν [to be] sin ἁμαρτίαν vvv ὑπὲρ on our behalf, ἡμῶν so that ἵνα in ἐν Him αὐτῷ. we ἡμεῖς might become γενώμεθα [the] righteousness δικαιοσύνη of God. Θεοῦ

So let’s straighten this out: the Messiah didn’t “get zapped” into the lake of fire eternally, and here’s why.

  1. Jesus never sinned. Hebrews 4.15 makes it crystal: He was “without sin.” You can’t punish someone for their own sins if they never committed any.

  2. 2 Corinthians 5.21 clarified. Greek: ἁμαρτίαν ὑπέρ ἡμῶν ἐποίησεν (hamartian hyper hēmōn epoiēsen). That doesn’t mean He literally became a sinner or went to the lake of fire. It means He was treated as guilty for our sin, bore the penalty we deserved, and absorbed God’s wrath on our behalf. Substitution, not transformation.

  3. Full atonement at the cross. Romans 3.25–26 says God presented Him as a propitiation. The wrath of God fell fully, once, historically, and decisively on Christ, there’s no leftover eternal torment for Him to endure. The lake of fire is reserved for the unsaved, not the Redeemer.

  4. Eternal punishment is for unpaid sin. Christ paid in full. Hebrews 10.10 emphasizes “once for all.” If the Messiah had to experience the lake of fire, substitutionary atonement would be incomplete, and Scripture nowhere teaches that.

Bottom line: “Became sin” = He took our guilt, bore the penalty, and satisfied divine justice. It is not an instruction that Christ goes into the lake of fire forever. Eternal torment is the consequence of unatoned sin, not the fate of the Savior who bore it fully and perfectly.

Put another way: He carried the fire for us without being consumed eternally. That’s substitution. That’s justice. That’s exactly what the cross accomplished.

You agree?

J.

145

I’m still wondering if you are legit seeking answers or trolling. Where do you get this from? Simply put, at this point.

“And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them.” Genesis 3:21

When God required the death of an animal to cover mankind’s sin, the penalty for sin being death was established. Then you have Noah, who, after the Great Flood, offered “burnt offerings” Genesis 8:20. Abraham later offered a ram as a substitute for his son Isaac Genesis 22:13, a pivotal moment that solidified the concept of substitutionary sacrifice (one life dying in place of another).

Been this way since then. If we sin, we are guilty of death.

“For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Romans 6:23

Since this is sadly true.

“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” Romans 3:23

Jesus came to be the last ever sacrifice.

“He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2

It seems you may be confusing death with punishment, but that is not accurate. We all die—the good, the bad, and even the ugly. The choice lies in where we go afterward. Hell represents the consequences of rejecting the only source of salvation, while Heaven is the reward for accepting Jesus as our substitute. Hell is not an additional punishment; it is simply the absence of grace and mercy that comes from rejecting Jesus.

Peter

146

Good point Peter and really appreciate your “rock-like” contributions.

Shalom.

J.

147

@rstrats

Adhering to the principle of justice, any punishment must fit the crime, the better the fit, the more accurate the justice. Man’s crime was rejecting The Truth, which incurred the wrath of God. A Just punishment must satisfy God’s wrath. The horrible rejection by His own people, the injustice of a puppet trial, the brutal torture and mortification that ensued, the cruel humiliating death by crucifixion, and the unceremonious burial of the incarnate body of God himself fully and perfectly satisfied this wrath. We know it did, because He was resurrected, raised to life as the first-fruit of many to follow. God’s plan, God’s son, God’s remedy, God’s glory.

KP

148

I see what you did there. Thanks.

Peter

149

Here’s the problem @rstrats

Your reasoning hinges on a hidden assumption that does not actually come from the text of Scripture, namely that “the penalty for sin” is a single, fixed outcome defined as eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire, and that anyone who “bears sin” must therefore undergo that exact fate in the same way.
Once that assumption is questioned, the entire either–or structure you are using collapses.

When Paul says in 2 Corinthians 5:21 that Christ was “made to be sin,” he is not saying that Jesus became a sinner or that he personally incurred every eschatological judgment image associated with sin.
Paul is drawing on sacrificial and covenantal language, where “sin” can mean sin offering, a usage that is already well established in the Septuagint and would have been obvious to a Jewish-trained reader.
This is about representation and substitution, not identity or moral transformation.

You are also collapsing several biblical categories into one.
Scripture says the wages of sin is death, and Christ truly dies.
Scripture speaks of curse, and Christ bears the curse.
Scripture speaks of exile and abandonment, and Christ experiences abandonment on the cross.
What Scripture does not say is that every bearer of sin must undergo endless torment regardless of purpose, role, or outcome.

Most importantly, your argument ignores the resurrection as a theological necessity rather than an optional appendix.
If Christ were bearing sin in the sense you are proposing, then the resurrection becomes unintelligible.
God raising Jesus from the dead is not God interrupting punishment halfway through; it is God publicly declaring that the sin-bearing work is finished, accepted, and complete.
An eternally punished Christ is incompatible with a vindicated, exalted Christ.

The “either he’s doing that, or he isn’t” framing is a false dilemma.
It assumes only one model of judgment and one way of bearing sin, while Scripture presents multiple interlocking categories: sacrifice, priesthood, covenant, victory, obedience, and resurrection.
Christ does not reenact the fate of the finally impenitent; he fulfills the role of the faithful representative who bears sin so that judgment is exhausted rather than perpetuated.

So the problem is not that you are taking sin seriously.
The problem is that you are flattening biblical language into a rigid system that the text itself does not support, and in doing so you sever the cross from the resurrection.

Once those are torn apart, neither judgment nor salvation makes coherent sense anymore.

J.

150

Johann,
re: “How do you read 2 Cor. 5.21 @rstrats ?”

I read it literally, even though I don’t understand it.

Look, I’m not suggesting that what the Messiah did wasn’t enough to appease the Father with regard to our sins*.
*At least the sins of those who meet certain requirements.

What I’m saying - poorly it seems - is that it doesn’t seem correct to say that He, the Messiah, “…bore the penalty we deserved…” if that penalty is to be cast into the lake fire for eternity. Just leave that kind of statement out of your comments and we’ll be ok.

re: “You agree?”

I don’t disagree, with the exception of what I’ve said.

151

@rstrats
I would suggest studying Isaiah 53 and Leviticus, and be aware that this will require careful, in-depth study of the Scriptures, not just devotional reading. It will also help to read what the early church fathers wrote and to examine all the different offerings described in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Here is Isaiah 53 from the OJB.

Isa 53:1 Who hath believed our report? And to whom is the Zero’a Hashem [Yeshayah 52:10] revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a Shoresh (Root, Shoresh Yishai, Moshiach, Yeshayah 11:10, Sanhedrin93b) out of a dry ground; he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire [Chaggai 2:7] him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and chadal ishim (rejected by men); a man of sorrows, and acquainted with suffering; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our sufferings, and nasah (carried [Vayikra 16:22; Yeshayah 53:12)] our sorrows; yet we did esteem him stricken, [i.e., like a leper is stricken] smitten of G-d, and afflicted [see verse 8 below].
Isa 53:5 But he was pierced [Yeshayah 51:9; Zecharyah 12:10 Sukkah 52a, Tehillim 22:17 Targum Hashivim] for our transgressions, he was bruised mei’avonoteinu (for our iniquities); the musar (chastisement) (that brought us shalom [Yeshayah 54:10] was upon him [Moshiach]; and at the cost of his (Moshiach’s) chaburah (stripes, lacerations) we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own derech (way; see Prov 16:25); and Hashem hath laid on him [Moshiach] the avon (iniquity, the guilt that separates from G-d) of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; he is brought as a seh (lamb; see Shemot 12:3) to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment; and who of his generation declared? For he was cut off [ Dan_9:26 ; Lev_17:10 ] out of Eretz Chayyim [this refers to the mot of Moshiach Ben Dovid, see Isa_53:12 ] mipesha ami (for the transgression of my people [Yisroel]) -nega (plague cf Psa_91:10 ) lamo ([fell] on him [i.e., Moshiach; in light of Psa_11:7 and Job_22:2 we are warranted in saying the suffix is a singular, “him,” not “them”. Cf Gen_9:26-27 ; Deu_33:2 ; Isa_44:15 ; also compare 1Ch_21:17 ]).
Isa 53:9 And he made his kever (grave) with the resha’im, and with the oisher (rich man; see Mt 27:57-60) bemotayv (in his deaths, intensive plural should be translated singular, death); because he had done no chamas (violence), neither was any mirmah (deceit) in his mouth. T.N. We stray as sheep; we return in Moshiach as children (zera); the Techiyas HaMoshiach (Resurrection of Moshiach) predicted in v. 10 [Dead Sea Scrolls Isaiah Scroll says Moshiach “will see the light [of life];” see also the Targum HaShivim]
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased Hashem to bruise him; He hath put him to suffering; when Thou shalt make his nefesh an asham offering for sin, he (Moshiach) shall see zera [see Psalm 16 and Yn 1:12 OJBC], He shall prolong his yamim (days) and the chefetz Hashem (pleasure, will of Hashem) shall prosper in his [Moshiach’s] hand.
Isa 53:11 He [Hashem] shall see of the travail of his [Moshiach’s] nefesh, and shall be satisfied; by knowledge of him [Moshiach] shall Tzadik Avdi [“My Righteous Servant,” Moshiach, Zecharyah 3:8, Yirmeyah 23:5; Zecharyah 6:11-12, Ezra 3:8 Yehoshua, Yeshua shmo] justify many (Ro 5:1); for he [Moshiach] shall bear their avon (iniquities).
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his nefesh unto mavet (death); and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he nasah (Lv 16:22, carried) (like the Yom Kippur scapegoat) the sin of many, and made intercession [did the work of a mafgi’a, intercessor] for the transgressors [see Lk 23:34 OJBC].

Let me know if you want help brother.

J.

152

@rstrats

ὁ τὰ μὴ γινώσκων ἁμαρτίαν ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἁμαρτίαν ἐποίησεν, ἵνα ἡμεῖς γινώμεθα δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ.
(ho ta mē ginōskōn hamartian hyper hēmōn hamartian epoiēsen, hina hēmeis ginōmetha dikaiosynē theou en autō)

  1. Key Words and Morphology

ἁμαρτίαν (hamartian) – noun, accusative singular, “sin”

Not an adjective; does not say “sinful” or “became a sinner.”

Accusative shows it is the object being borne.

τὰ μὴ γινώσκων (ta mē ginōskōn) – participle, nominative, “who knew no”

Modifies the subject Jesus (ὁ).

Literally: “He who knew no sin,” emphasizing His sinlessness.

ἐποίησεν (epoiēsen) – verb, aorist active indicative, 3rd singular, “made / caused”

Causative: God placed Jesus in the role of the sin-bearing substitute.

Does not imply moral change; He was not made sinful, only made to bear sin’s consequences.

ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν (hyper hēmōn) – preposition, “for us”

Indicates substitutionary purpose: Jesus bears sin on our behalf, not for Himself.

ἵνα ἡμεῖς γινώμεθα δικαιοσύνη θεοῦ (hina hēmeis ginōmetha dikaiosynē theou) – purpose clause:

“That we might become the righteousness of God.”

The grammatical structure links Jesus’ sin-bearing role to our reconciliation, showing His function, not His moral state.

  1. Syntax and Function

Subject: ὁ τὰ μὴ γινώσκων → “He who knew no sin” → Jesus, explicitly sinless.

Object: ἁμαρτίαν → “sin” → what is borne, not what is become.

Verb: ἐποίησεν → “made / caused” → establishes role, not identity.

Purpose: ἵνα… γινώμεθα → “so that we might become righteous” → clarifies substitutionary intent.

Conclusion from Syntax:
Jesus is sinless in Himself, yet made a sin offering, taking upon Himself the covenantal penalty of sin (death, curse, suffering) for humanity. The grammar forbids reading it as “He became morally sinful.”

  1. Supporting Scriptural Context

Isaiah 53:6 – “The LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

Leviticus 4–5 – Sin offerings (ḥaṭṭāʾt) bear guilt without moral corruption.

Galatians 3:13 – Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, echoing the same substitutionary idea.

All of these show that sin-bearing is representative and judicial, not personal moral transformation

Supporting Scriptural Context for you to consider brother

Isaiah 53:6 – “The LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.”

Leviticus 4–5 – Sin offerings (ḥaṭṭāʾt) bear guilt without moral corruption.

Galatians 3:13 – Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, echoing the same substitutionary idea.

All of these show that sin-bearing is representative and judicial, not personal moral transformation.

This is very condensed.

J.

153

Johann,
re: “Let me know if you want help…”

Apparently, I do, because I don’t see where the Issiah prophecy passages say that the Messiah will be in the lake of fire for eternity.

154

Because Messiah is NOT in the Lake of Fire for eternity.

J.

155

So, when you said the Messiah" bore the penalty we deserved" that you didn’t mean that our penalty for sin is to be in the lake of fire for eternity?

156

Which Church are you affiliated with @rstrats ?

J.

157

None at the moment.

BTW, you have a question directed to you in post #134.

158

I believe this is where you get your bad theology from @rstrats

Word-Faith View of Atonement
Unlike the traditional view of atonement, the Word of Faith view is neither simple nor beautiful. Many Word of Faith teaches teach that Jesus had to die spiritually on the cross, that our redemption was not secured on the cross but in hell, and that Jesus had to be reborn in hell.[8]

Atonement Completed in Hell
According to Faith teachers, the atoning work of Christ had to be completed in hell. The suffering and broken body on the cross was insufficient to reconcile us to God. Frederick K.C. Price writes: “Do you think that the punishment for our sin was to die on the cross? If that were the case, the two thieves could have paid your price. No, the punishment was to go into hell itself and to serve time in hell separated from God . . . . Satan and all the demons of hell thought that they had Him bound and they threw a net over Jesus and they dragged Him down to the very pit of hell itself to serve our sentence.”[12]

Price is by no means alone. He represents the consensus among Word-Faith teachers. Kenneth Hagin writes “Down in the prison house of suffering-down in hell itself-Jesus satisfied the claims of Justice on the behalf of each one of us, because He died as our substitute.”[13]

According to Kenneth Copeland “When Jesus cried, ‘It is finished!’ He was not speaking of the plan of redemption. There were still three days and nights to go through before He went to the throne . . . Jesus’ death on the cross was only the beginning of the complete work of redemption.”[14]

The support this doctrine Biblically, Kenneth Hagin uses Acts 13:13. The passage reads “God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second Psalm:‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You’” (KJV; emphasis mine). Of this passage Hagin writes “God in Heaven said, ‘It is enough.’ Then he raised Him up. He brought His spirit and soul up out of hell-He raised His body up from the grave-and He said, ‘Thou are my son, THIS DAY have I begotten thee.’”[15] So according to Hagin, Acts 13:33 proves that Jesus was not God’s son until after God raised Him from hell.

Hagin also uses Acts 2:27 to bolster his claim about Jesus entering hell. This passage is a quote from Ps. 16:10 and reads “For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption” (KJV; emphasis mine). This allegedly, is evidence that Jesus’ soul must have been in hell at some point and that God promised to not leave Him there.

Faith teachers also use Matthew 12:40 and Ephesians 4:9-10 to support the fact that Jesus went to hell. Matthew 12:40 states “For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” According to Faith teachers interpretation of this passage, the phrase “three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” is a reference to hell. Ephesians 4:9-10 reads “What does ‘he ascended’ mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.” Faith teachers would point to this as clear evidence that Christ went to hell between His death and resurrection.

Word-Faith teachers not only teach that Jesus had to go to hell to atone for own sins, but also that He won our sins based on a technicality. In hell, Satan and every demon tortured Christ’s “emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit.”[16] Since Jesus had not sinned, He did not belong in hell. By Satan taking Jesus to hell illegally, God seized the moment based on this technicality. Copeland describes what took place in hell: “that Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before. He was literally being reborn before the devil’s eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles . . . . Jesus was born again-the first-born from the dead.”[17] It was at this point that Jesus whipped Satan in his own back yard and snatched Satan’s keys and emerged from hell.

In addition to these scriptural references, Faith teachers also claim to find historical support in the fact that statements about Jesus in the Apostle’s and Athanasian creeds use the phrase “descended into hell.”[18]

So our salvation was not won on the cross, but in hell. It was in hell that Christ was tortured for our transgression by Satan and his horde of demons. However, God the Father tricked Satan based on a legal technicality. As a result, God used this violation by Satan as a means to redeem mankind and raised Christ up from hell to be reborn the Son of God.

Atonement Included Healing
In Faith theology, healing is just as much of the purpose of atonement as forgiveness of sin.[19] Jesus had to die first spiritually before He died physically because the source of sickness, sin, and poverty is spiritual and not physical. So the atonement does not only include doing away with sin but also doing away with sickness. Jesus not only took sin upon Himself but sickness.[20]

J

159

Johann,
re: “I believe this is where you get your bad theology from…”

It’s clear to me that you don’t understand what I’m saying.

BTW, I have never seen or heard of The Word-Faith view of atonement.

160

I think it’s pretty clear that YOU do not understand what you are asking. You asked what Jesus did as our substitute. I responded with scripture, that He died, because it is required for us to die for our sins. You seem to be bent on saying burning in hell directly resulted in death. This is simply not true. Everyone sins, everyone dies. The price to get into heaven is Jesus. Acceptance. Hell is the result of an unrepentant soul.

Hope this helps you to understand.

Peter

161

PeterC,
re: “I think it’s pretty clear that YOU do not understand what you are asking.”

I understand perfectly what I’m asking.

re: “You asked what Jesus did as our substitute.”

Actually, I said that if our penalty is to spend eternity in the lake of fire, then the Messiah wasn’t a substitute for us by paying that penalty Himself.

And as I said previously, I’m not saying that what the Messiah did wasn’t enough to appease the Father with regard to our sins - at least the sins of those who meet certain requirements.

It’s just that it doesn’t seem correct to say that He, the Messiah, “…bore the penalty we deserved…” if that penalty is to be cast into the lake fire for eternity.