Prayer is a fundamental part of the Christian faith, but how do you personally experience it? Do you believe prayer truly makes a difference in your life and the lives of others?
I do not believe prayers get answered by God. I believe prayer does have value, however, in that it brings some comfort.
I believe in prayer whole heartedly. Itās not that I believe He will give what Iāve asked, but that Heās heard me. And He will answer my prayer according to His purpose and love. Sometimes Iāve had an immediate answer and sometimes He answers after a period of time. Iām not in the habit of asking for things unless His word promises them, but I do make my requests known to God and trust that His answer is right.
Can you give me an example of what kinds of things you pray for (e.g. healing, peace, etcā¦)?
@Truthseek
Sure. Can you give me examples of the kinds of things you talk to your earthly father about?
KP
P.S. Would you say talking to your earthly father āworksā?
Excellent question here @TruthSeek
When I had cancer I didnāt pray for healing. I prayed that if I died I would be with Him. He healed me. I was a new Christian at the time.
There are people I pray for to come to faith and I ask God to be at work in their life because He knows the best way to reach them. I pray for those who ask for prayer and according to what theyāve asked for, but I also add to that prayer that God would be at work in their situation according to His mercy and love of them. I often tell God the situation Iām in and the problem Iām having with it, and then I ask for Him to help me in that situation. Not necessarily to solve it how I want it solved, but to help me deal with it in a way that pleases Him. Mostly Iām asking for His involvement and help and I leave the how to help up to God. I donāt always know what the right answer is. He might have a different plan than my plan.
When I think back, there have been many times that God has answered my prayer and often in a way I would never have expected. Itās taught me that God does hear our prayers whether it seems like it or not, and that He answers them according to His will and good purpose.
My āearthly fatherā is dead.
Iām Sorry.
My point (maybe made in poor judgement) is that we speak to our Heavenly Father in much the same way, and in most of the same topics, as we would speak to our earthly father. The conversation is based in our intimate relationship, not in Godās performance.
We donāt consider if speaking to our earthly father āworksā or not. In the same way, I donāt consider if prayer āworksā or not. At least not in the same way we might consider if our pleading methods of acquiring a loan at the bank works or not, but that is not the same kind of relationship as we have with our Savior.
If our relationship with someone is measured by their performance in response to our skill at asking, we are no longer in a Love relationship, but in a transactional one. Jesus died to bring us to life for the purpose of a Love relationship with Himself.
Prayer is a conversation of Love, between a child and their Father.
KP
Great. Thank you for that. So can I ask you why you pray for things like that? Do you believe that it will somehow influence God?
And to your comment regarding claims that āGod has answeredā your prayers, would you agreed that you canāt know for sure that He has? You just believe He has.
I understand and agree with your purpose of praying, however, you must agree that the vast majority of Christians do not follow that approach. Instead, they will pray for healing or for world peace, etcā¦ We all see and hear it. I get it. It makes people feel like they are doing something, but in reality they are not influencing God. Their prayers do not have any impact on the outcome. Would you agree?
I do see what you mean @TruthSeek. I have witnessed what appears to be the situation you describe, although, I really have not been given the insight into other peoples relationship with God. I hear what comes out of thier mouths at times, but I do not really know what is coming out of their hearts. I must assume The Holy Spirit of God is doing with them what He said he would do with us all:
Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. (Romans 8:26)
But your point is well-taken, and I surely understand, especially from someone who goes by the handle āTruthSeekā. Surely anything that has a slight odor of insincerity would smell foul to you. I appreciate that.
KP
Iāll answer the second question first.
I know He has answered, but it would difficult for me to convince anyone of that. Hereās an example of answered prayer. My mother had just died and it was the day of funeral. I was in the bathtub as part of getting ready to go. It was a really bad time for the family. I was getting more and more anxious and I didnāt know why. So I cried out to God in a plea telling Him that I donāt think I can even go to my own motherās funeral.
Then I felt something on my right side, like a balloon letting out air. With the letting out, the anxiety was let out too and I was back to normal. Normal enough to go to my motherās funeral. Not all answered prayer is like that, but this one seems obvious.
Weāre told to pray. Itās part of the Christian experience. Iām sure you know that. When I look at the prayers in the Bible, their asking is not a demand, but a request and seldom do they ask specifically for things - can you give me this or that. The prayers are more for relationship and spiritual growth. For understanding and knowledge. I donāt see how its possible for someone whoās a child of God to have a relationship with Him and never pray, or not believe that He hears your prayers. God wants to be asked. Prayer demonstrates our faith in Him. He answers faith.
Do I think Iām influencing God? Yes and no. If I pray for something like world peace, then no because the Bible already tells us that there wonāt be world peace. Quite the opposite. If I pray for my own peace then He will give it as long as Iām able to receive it. I canāt receive it if I donāt believe He gives it. I admit that when it comes to healing for others, my faith is small. I still ask for it, but Iām also asking for that person to know His presence in the illness. I have no delusions that Heās a magic genie granting my requests. I appreciate that He knows best. Thereās a helpful verse in OT.
The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart;
the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Isaiah 57:1
There are worse things than death and death is a doorway into Godās presence. I donāt question Him when someone Iāve prayed for dies. Some time ago, both the Pastor of our church and a 12 year old girl were very sick. Much prayer was offered for both of them. The Pastor, though he came close to death twice, he lived and the little girl died. That was Godās answer.
Thank you for your perspective. Compelling story that Iām sure will be with you as long as you live. I greatly appreciate you sharing it. A couple comments.
Certainly, the Bible tells us to pray, whatever the origin is. Your choice of praying to gain spiritual growth and a closer relationship with God is great, but does raise another question. Firstly, I have and continue to pray to God for similar reasons. I ask for guidance and to not let me slip away from him (which honestly has already occurred). When I reflect back on those prayers and even during those prayers, I realize that they are essentially 1-way conversations. He never speaks back to me no matter what. So my question is, how in the world does God expect us to grow closer to him if he refuses to engage in a meaningful discussion? I know the typical Christian response will be that he communicates in different ways, but why would he? Why would he chose to limit an opportunity to grow our love for Him in this way? If you talked to any of your loved ones and they did nothing to respond to you do you think it would affect your relationship? For sure it would. And for those who are just considering converting to Christianity, doesnāt a lack of tangible response risk driving them away rather then bringing them in? If He loves us as much as the Bible claims, He sure has an odd way of showing it. To me it cries human construct rather than that of a divine entity. What are your thoughts?
The answer to this is faith. Weāre saved by faith and what is faith except believing that what God says is true. I suppose it can be seen as an odd way of doing things, but thatās how God set it up. Believing is seeing and not the other way around. There really isnāt any other thing we can give God except to believe Him. If we do, He grants us salvation. In supposing that God did as you suggest, then where would be the faith? Iāve heard Him. Heās talked to me in a way that my ears can hear, so where in that situation does faith come in? He does make Himself known to the one who believes in Him; to the one with faith. Faith is the foundation of our relationship and even if He doesnāt make His presence known to me, because of His word, I know it to be true. He said it, I believe it. Thatās faith. I act on that faith in many ways and one way is through prayer.
I call myself a prodigal daughter after the story Jesus told. Weāre talking decades of not following Him or having much of anything to do with Him. I still believed (sort of), but my belief had little to do with my daily life. I got into all sorts of things I should never had been involved in. It was when things really got bad that I gave Him a second thought. One thing led to another and now Iāve returned. What I wouldnāt give to redo those wasted years.
Faith is a choice. We choose to believe. And everyone has faith in something. I was just thinking about that earlier today when I was crossing a bridge. I had faith that the bridge wouldnāt collapse under my feet. I put my faith in its construction and the skill of the people who built it - people Iāve never met. Truly there is a lot of evidence for the existence of God for anyone who cares to look. I wonāt get into that now, but Lee Strobel wrote a book about His own coming to faith. He was an investigative journalist and atheist. His looking led to belief. The books called āThe Case for Christā if youāre interested. I think it was made into a movie too.
Okay. So faith, the way you describe it, means you accept the fact that there is some level of uncertainty for a variety of valid reasons not the least of which is that you were not there at the time of Jesus so you are basing everything on hearsay. That is logical reasoning. You mention the analogy of walking over a bridge having faith that the builders built it sturdy enough. You really donāt know but you are hopeful and realize that there is a small chance that they could have miscalculated and the bridge could fail under your feet. Not likely but canāt rule out out 100%. I agree with that.
You state that if God did as I suggest (manifest himself in some way) then where would the faith be. My question to you is why does there even need to be faith in the first place? Your comment is a fairly typical Christian viewpoint, taking the Bible and itās content as the base of understanding without questioning it. You believe faith is a given necessity when in fact there are much more effective methods that do not require it. Ask yourself why does faith have to be āthe foundation of our relationshipā? After all, were talking about salvation here. Really important, Iād say. For a loving god to inject a level of faith into the equation risks good people going to hell. This doesnāt pass the common sense test to me.
You mention the abundance of evidence of God around us, making the jump from the evidence directly to the Christian god. I certainly do believe in a higher power based on that same evidence, but the difference between you and me is that I question the origin of it. You assume as fact that if there is evidence of a higher power that that means the Christian god it real. It is fine, even as Christians, to question things. In fact it is healthy and can strengthen belief. Why so many Christians are afraid to question is a bit odd.
Regarding the book by Lee Strobel, Iāve read it.
Is there a question? Youāve asked me what I deduced to be sincere questions and Iāve shared with you what I believe in all sincerity. Iām not sure what else to tell you and I have no wish to argue with you my belief in God or my faith. Iām also not interested in debates for debateās sake. If you have a question for me because youāre interested in what the answer is, then please ask. If not, letās leave the subject and I thank you for the opportunity your questions allowed me to share.
I have a question for you @TruthSeek ..What does it mean to have emunah/faith in the Jewish Jesus Christ?
And would you agree with this?
To have faith in Yeshua in the New Testament sense is not mental assent, not admiration, not cultural alignment, but a lived, covenantal entrusting of the whole self to the crucified and risen Messiah, expressed through the Greek verb pisteuÅ (to trust, to rely upon, to entrust oneself), which in John is most often followed by the preposition eis (into), signaling movement and transfer of allegiance rather than detached belief, meaning faith presses the sinner into Christ, not merely toward ideas about Him ~John 3 16, ~John 1 12, ~John 20 31.
Scripture defines faith in Yeshua as personal reliance upon His person and work, specifically His atoning death on the cross, where God dealt decisively with sin, wrath, and reconciliation, so that trusting Him is trusting that His blood was sufficient, His obedience was complete, and His resurrection vindicated His identity as Son, a faith grounded in the objective act of the cross rather than subjective religious experience ~Romans 3 22, ~Romans 3 25, ~1 Corinthians 15 3 4.
The apostolic gospel presents faith as receiving rather than achieving, because pistis (faith) is consistently contrasted with works of Torah or human effort, meaning the believer rests in what Christ has done rather than supplementing it, so faith renounces self righteousness and clings to Christ alone, the crucified one who bore sin in the flesh ~Galatians 2 16, ~Ephesians 2 8 9, ~Philippians 3 8 9.
Faith in Yeshua is also participatory and transformative, because union with Christ means the believer is counted as having died and risen with Him, which Paul expresses through the perfect passive form ĻĻ Ī½ĪµĻĻĪ±ĻĻĻĪ¼Ī±Ī¹ (I have been crucified together), indicating a completed action with ongoing effect, so faith binds the believer to the cross as the place where the old self was judged and a new life began ~Galatians 2 20, ~Romans 6 6, ~Colossians 2 12.
Knowing Christ by faith is relational and experiential, not mystical speculation, expressed by the verb ginÅskÅ and intensified as epiginÅskÅ (to know fully, to know personally), meaning faith grows through obedient trust, endurance, and shared suffering with Christ, especially participation in His death and resurrection life ~Philippians 3 8 10, ~John 17 3, ~1 John 5 20.
Biblical faith necessarily produces allegiance and obedience, not as the basis of justification but as its fruit, because trusting Christ as Lord means submitting to His authority, so faith that does not issue in repentance and transformed conduct is exposed as empty, since the same Lord who saves by grace calls disciples to take up the cross and follow Him ~James 2 17, ~Romans 1 5, ~Luke 9 23.
Thus, in summary, to have faith in Yeshua is to entrust yourself into the crucified Messiah, to rely wholly on His atoning death and victorious resurrection, to be united with Him in His cross, and to live out that trust in obedient dependence, because nowhere does Scripture present faith as mere belief, but always as covenantal reliance on the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself for us.
Used with prepositions..
Its use with PREPOSITIONS
eis means āinto.ā This unique construction emphasizes believers putting their trust/faith in Jesus (i.e., His person, His works, His teachings, His death and resurrection)
into His name (John 1:12; 2:23; 3:18; 1 John 5:13; see SPECIAL TOPIC: THE NAME OF THE LORD [NT])
into Him (John 2:11; 3:15,18; 4:39; 6:40; 7:5,31,39,48; 8:30; 9:36; 10:42; 11:45,48; 12:37,42; Matt. 18:6; Acts 10:43; Phil. 1:29; 1 Pet. 1:8)
into Me (John 6:35; 7:38; 11:25,26; 12:44,46; 14:1,12; 16:9; 17:20)
into the Son (John 3:36; 9:35; 1 John 5:10; see SPECIAL TOPIC: SON OF GOD)
into Jesus (John 12:11; Acts 19:4; Gal. 2:16)
into Light (John 12:36)
into God (John 14:1)
ev means āinā as in John 3:15; Mark 1:15; Acts 5:14
epi means āinā or āupon,ā as in Matt. 27:42; Acts 9:42; 11:17; 16:31; 22:19; Rom. 4:5,24; 9:33; 10:11; 1 Tim. 1:16; 1 Pet. 2:6
the DATIVE CASE with no PREPOSITION as in John 4:50; Gal. 3:6; Acts 18:8; 27:25; 1 John 3:23; 5:10
hoti, which means ābelieve that,ā gives content as to what to believe
Jesus is the Holy One of God (John 6:69)
Jesus is the I Am (John 8:24)
Jesus is in the Father and the Father is in Him (John 10:38)
Jesus is the Messiah (John 11:27; 20:31; see SPECIAL TOPIC: MESSIAH)
Jesus is the Son of God (John 11:27; 20:31)
Jesus was sent by the Father (John 11:42; 17:8,21)
Jesus is one with the Father (John 14:10-11)
Jesus came from the Father (John 16:27,30)
Jesus identified Himself in the covenant name of the Father, āI Amā (John 8:24; 13:19; see SPECIAL TOPIC: NAMES FOR DEITY, D, and SPECIAL TOPIC: āTHE NAMEā OF YHWH)
We will live with Him (Rom. 6:8)
Jesus died and rose again (1 Thess. 4:14)
Bob Utley
And what denomination are you affiliated with? I know the topic is Prayer.
J.
Sometimes I question it. But, I think thatās a normalā¦and very humanā¦thing to feel. And, I find that when I do question it, those are the times God has a sense of humor and makes his answer incredibly loud!
Rom 8:26 So too the [Holy] Spirit comes to our aid and bears us up in our weakness; for we do not know what prayer to offer nor how to offer it worthily as we ought, but the Spirit Himself goes to meet our supplication and pleads in our behalf with unspeakable yearnings and groanings too deep for utterance.
Rom 8:27 And He Who searches the hearts of men knows what is in the mind of the [Holy] Spirit [what His intent is], because the Spirit intercedes and pleads [before God] in behalf of the saints according to and in harmony with Godās will. [Psa_139:1-2]
AMP.
āthe Spirit also helpsā This is a present middle (deponent) indicative. The verb has a double compound, syn (cf. Rom_8:28) and anti. It s best translated ātake hold with.ā This term is found only here and in Luk_10:40. The whole Triune God is for believers. The Father sent the Son to die on mankindās behalf (cf. Joh_3:16), and He now also intercedes for us (cf. Rom_8:34; Heb_7:25; Heb_9:24; 1Jn_2:1). The Spirit brings fallen mankind to Christ and forms Christ in them (cf. Joh_16:8-15). However, the verb āhelps,ā which meant āto take hold of with someone,ā implied that believers also have a part in an appropriating the Spiritās help (intercession).
J.
