Earning Our Place in Heaven

Theology
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And everyone (all the Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Calvinists, Arminians, etc) said “wait, what”!?

There is no special crown in heaven for “Mostest Godliest Insulter”.

Jesus said that if you want to be great in God’s kingdom, “learn to be the servant of all.” We might also deduce, if you want to be the least in the kingdom of heaven, learn to disrespect your brothers and insult them.

Jesus died to offer you citizenship in heaven, but we each then earn our place, be it “the greatest in heaven” or “the least in heaven”.

We have a wealth of really positive threads going at the moment. That’s just wonderful. Let’s outdo each other in showing respect while strongly advocating what we believe the Spirit of God is teaching us.

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OK…but that has nothing to do with the OP title.

You earn the right to go to heaven by walking in obedience to God after you have come to Him on His terms and receive salvation, leading into eternal life.

If that offends anyone, remember that Jesus said the truth will offend people.

Blessings.

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Many here (including me) would ask you to explain what you mean by “earning the right to go to heaven.” Salvation is a free gift, so it’s the claim that we somehow earn it that would be problematic.

But that’s not what the thread is about. This thread is about earning our “place”. As in, Jesus said, if you want to be great in heaven, learn to be the servant of all.

And He also said:

Matthew 5:19 - “Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.”

As brothers, it’s more important to show love and respect to each other than to win an argument. We thereby earn a higher place in heaven, according to the scriptures.

That’s what the thread title means.

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Sure, I will start a new thread on the subject in the Theology section.

I said that because your title was a little deceptive, once I started reading I realized you were not actually speaking about earning heaven.

Blessings

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My chief concern, here, is the possible conflating of “heaven” with “kingdom of heaven”. When Christ speaks of the kingdom, He does not speak of a place; but an objective reality of God-as-King.

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And that actually is… the real point. For those who are ‘lukewarm’, Jesus said He will cast out of His mouth…

Rev 3:15-16
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of My mouth.
KJV

Did you guys know that the Soviet Communists in their 1958 long-range strategy to take over the United States includes infiltration into the Christian Churches to push disarmament and pacifist dogma? Ex-FBI agent Cleon Skousen listed that strategic point in his 1958 book The Naked Communist.

It’s the lukewarm fence-riders that keep pushing pacifist ideas like we are to always be nice as Christians, and just let Christ’s enemies run over us, turn the other cheek thing, when turning the other cheek was about when you preach The Gospel and get slapped for doing so, not when some whacko is trying to kill you.

Like Apostle Paul said, “IF it be possible, as much as lieth within you, live peaceably with all men.” (Romans 12:18). With some men, it’s simply not possible to do that. That applies between nations also. Sometimes Christ’s enemies require correction to make peace with them, for some a 2x4, for others an army. Jesus gave Christians the right to self-defense too, as He told His disciples in final per Luke 22 to go buy a sword for those who did not have one.

The Word of God simply is not popular. And like Jesus said in Mark 13, the whole world is going to hate His elect for giving Christ’s Testimony.

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My beloved brother Ulysses (@Pater15)

With ALL sincerity, I love your intended message of this post, especially this:

I will try my very best to comply.

Now, as you request, this is what The Spirit of God is teaching me, especially as it relates to the title: “Earning Our Place in Heaven”.

Your premise seems to come from Jesus’s words in Matthew 20:25-28. A very similar wording is found in Mark 10, and in Luke 22. Something interesting that I see is that Jesus never mentions “heaven”, or “The Kingdom of God”, or any future abode in any of the accounts. Jesus is grasping this “teaching moment” in response to Mama Zebedee’s helicopter parenting. Now, to be fair, Mama Zebedee does mention “The Kingdom” in which she expected Jesus to rule, and maybe that is where we get the idea.

She says:

“Grant that these two sons of mine may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on the left, in Your kingdom.” (Matthew 20:21)

But then, Jesus called His disciples to Himself (privately). Jesus teaches them how they are to behave NOW! He instructs them how to live In His Kingdom, NOW! He said:

“You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave-- just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

See, no heaven.

So, your point is well taken, and I understand your admonition to peace, deference, and mutual love, and I wholeheaertedly support it. But I don’t think our “place” in “The Kingdom of heaven” is necessarily predicated on our willingness to serve others, at least that’s not what this passage is teaching (IMHO).

Our willingness to serve (Gk:diakonos) others IS “great” (Gk:megas) now, because it emulates our Servant-Lord; lowering our status to servant (Gk:doulos) today is our mirrored expression of the kind of “servant-leadership” (pacesetters) (Gk:protos) that is modeled by God.

No contention, just observation.

IN Jesus
KP

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Thanks @KPuff it’s a road dog day! Still driving - good observations I will give my viewpoint.

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Something occurred to me this morning, thinking back. I think it was my first ever thread topic here in Crosswalk Forums - “Why God Created This Universe”. It was about a year ago, and yielded a real nice discussion. Lots of weeds to get into, but then the thread got abruptly derailed along the way, without a satisfactory conclusion.

Yesterday, as I was driving, I was listening to Sean McDowell interviewing Dr Craig about his new Systematic Philosophical Theology work that I think is near completion. 5 volumes.

Anyway the “best world” question came up (again), and it again mirrored Dr Plantinga’s discussion in many ways. They start out with “God decreed to create a world, a good world. Being God, He would have an infinite palette of possible worlds that He could choose to create, and also (being God) He would choose the “best possible” world to instantiate.” Then comes the question, are we living in the “best possible” world?

So they discuss what makes this world better, or the best, without seeming to ask, for what purpose did God create in the first place? Because it seems to follow that God would create the best possible world to complete His purposes. That would change the whole metric.

For example, let’s set out to create the best possible birthday cake. What’s our first question? Who is it for? Right? Is it for 1 year old Jeffry, or for the Queen of England? Different criteria, different goals, different everything. The “best possible cakes” would be necessarily very different from each other.

About this world, I would say, yes, this is the best possible world, for God’s purpose(s).

And there are many purposes.

One of the big events that we know is coming is the marriage supper of the lamb. We can’t be sure if this is the precise event that Jesus was talking about when He talked about the faithful centurion in Matthew Chapter 8:

“When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11. I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven”

And in Luke 14

“When he noticed how the guests picked the places of honor at the table, he told them this parable: 8 “When someone invites you to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for a person more distinguished than you may have been invited. **9 **If so, the host who invited both of you will come and say to you, ‘Give this person your seat.’ Then, humiliated, you will have to take the least important place. **10 **But when you are invited, take the lowest place, so that when your host comes, he will say to you, ‘Friend, move up to a better place.’ Then you will be honored in the presence of all the other guests. **11 **For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

One of the reasons that God created this particular very difficult world was to serve as a relevant definitional context for the human persons that would eventually participate in taking their place at the feast with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

If we faithfully serve God through humble service to Him and each other, the Master of the feast might tap us on the shoulder and say “friend, move up to a better place”.

I have to run - hope this makes sense.

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My beloved brother Ulysses (@Pater15)

Thanx for this thought.

Based on this, and your other thoughts here, I personally postulate that our Heavenly God-Creator produced “the best possible” realm in which He could fellowship with His “Imago Dei” creatures. From my personal reading, it seems this has always been the plan, and has never ceased to be the prescribed outcome.

When we read the word “heaven”, in either the first or second testament, the original audience heard something similar to our word for sky. I suspect it never conjured up thoughts of another, separated place, somewhere else, far off above the clouds, but one that is above meaning “unreachable”, like the sky. We are creatures of “dust” (Ps 103:14), little gods made of earth and water (clay). We all are “mired in clay”, separating and isolating us from that which is “above”. BUT, The Gospel is, you and I have been “brought-up” out of that horrible pit, we have been extracted from that “mirey clay” and our feet have been set on immovable Rock, and that Rock is Christ. We have been “elevated”, “raised”, “called out”. (Ps 40:2).

Moses introduces us to the idea of “firmament of the heavens” or “all that is above us”. The Apostle Paul introduces us to his understanding of his vision which he says he was “caught-up into the “third sky (ouranós)”. The eternal plan of Creator God has always been to “tabernacle” with mankind (Rev. 21:3). The eternal plan of God has always been to raise us from “the mirey clay” to “newness of life”, and bring us into His present realm, where we fellowship with Him, and He with us. This He accomplished on the cross. Our cleansing/healing accomplished our raising and His indwelling. He IS with us, in us, and we ARE in Him, with Him, in His realm. The Kingdom of God IS The Eternal Kingdom of the sky, the kingdom that is “above us”, the kingdom that is eternally higher. We ARE in The Kingdom of Heaven, now, and The Kingdom of Heaven is in us (Luke 17:21).

We often speak of “going to heaven”, implying it is a far-off place, like never-never land or Oz. But The Bible speaks of “God coming to the earth” to dwell with men and bringing His realm of The Sky with Him. Carefully reading our Bible we learn Heaven is not a place removed from the earth, it is a omnipresent realm, on God’s “best” Creation, yet unseen by the world.

Consider, the Jewish Pharisees did not expect to GO to heaven, they expected The Kingdom of Heaven to come:

Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:20-21)

When a person is ushered into The Kingdom of Heaven, through the blood of Jesus, they do not change locations, they change spiritual positions.

The LORD has established His throne in heaven, And His kingdom rules over all. (Psalm 103:19)

And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. (Daniel 2:44)

In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!” (Matthew 3:1-2)

From that time Jesus began to preach and to say, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 4:17)

Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven. (Matthew 6:10)

As you say, our Holy God did create the best possible context over which our benevolent King would rule, and provide for His beloved children, forever.

Much to meditate on.
Thanx again
KP

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I really appreciate your expansions and observations @KPuff - preach it brother!!

1 Corinthians 6:1-3 When one of you has a grievance against another, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, then, matters pertaining to this life!“

So our time in service to our God after this life is not occupied with idleness.

Why would God need judges?

J.L. Mackie, in his refutation of Plantinga’s free will defense, made the argument that there is no logical barrier to God creating a world of free persons who never sin. Plantinga’s answer (and others) is that while there is no logical barrier to that, it may be true that, due to the “counterfactuals of creaturely freedom” it may be that none of those possible worlds are feasible. Possible, but not feasible. Ouch!

First question is, how would these free persons know the difference between good and evil? In other words, how would they know what action to take in any given situation? Well, God would have to impute the knowledge into their minds. They couldn’t learn as they go - they would make a lot of evil choices by that method. They would also have to have an incursive governor on their will, and direct, present knowledge of the consequences of evil actions. Like what it means to die, or suffer, or damage someone else.

In any of these cases, the relative intrinsic value possibilities of the persons would be necessarily diminished. A very difficult free choice of goodness is praiseworthy. Being determined to make that choice means it isn’t difficult at all.

I believe that the Bible teaches that the saints of God rank higher than angels. Our office and functions in heavenly realms exceed those of the angels. We are made after the fashion of shock troops - but with a shepherds heart, and the wisdom of the Spirit who resides with us.

This world that God created is the best possible world for forming tough, gritty, tested, resolute, wise, faithful and loving saints. And that’s what we are, in as much as we submit to His process of forming us into the image of Christ.

Above all, we must always believe every word from God, in every form. Knowing the truth is our bulwark against every enemy.

I could go on ha ha! I just love being a believer, and I just love our God who made us and cares for us and has such wonderful plans for us. Glory to His name - Jesus our Lord!

And I love my brothers and sisters in Christ - such a wonderful encouragement. Our family of believers!

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@Pater15

I’ve read this post several times, and I appreciate it more each time. I follow your line of reasoning, and I see where you are coming from.

The mountains of experiential evidence makes anyone’s dismissal of the fact that man is able to freely make choices is ridiculous.

I understand your reasoning in this quote:

But, what if man’s proclivity to make free choices is viewed, not as an asset, but as a disability. Would a man with only one leg be intrinsically devalued if given a prosthetic leg, just because it makes walking easier? If the difficult task of walking with only one leg were praiseworthy, would enabling that man with a prosthesis, making walking “not-difficult”, necessarily reduce the value of walking?

If men are allowed the possibility of choosing badly, would not inhibiting, restricting, diminishing that possibility actually elevate the value of the person? If our lizard-brain is given the possibility (even proclivity) of not loving God, who is obviously loveable, wouldn’t God be honorable to grant us the grace of not not-loving Him? Is it possible that God loves us so much that he provides a parapet to keep us from falling off the proverbial roof?

“When you build a new house, then you shall make a parapet for your roof, that you may not bring guilt of bloodshed on your household if anyone falls from it.” (Deuteronomy 22:8)

What do you think?

KP

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This is a great point. Kinda connects to the birth lottery thread.

**28 **God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it.

I think it’s a common thread in the scripture, and everybody sort of knows it instinctively, that we each have a strong desire to be great. Or at least to be better, by whatever metric we might believe is important. We want to be smart, or attractive, or clever, or strong and so on. Again, whatever we each believe is some measurement that we think is praiseworthy. We want that praise and honor and distinction for ourselves.

Of course the thing we want to be recognized for changes over time. Some of them we might realize later was really not good at all. You may have wanted to be the most feared dude on the 5th grade playground, so bullied your way around to achieve that.

God put that in us for a reason. We want to be great, and He wants us to have that opportunity.

I remember flying into the mountains in Alaska to go fishing. We flew over miles and miles of barren mountains where no man could survive a week. And at some point later realized that this was what they faced when the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth Rock. Near certain death. In fact, of the 104 people who landed, 52 were dead within one year. Despite the historical revisionists, their purpose in coming to Plymouth Rock was to spread the Gospel.

God’s command was to fill the earth, and subdue it. But He didn’t say it would be easy, or that He would do it for them, or that he would keep them safe every step of the way. He didn’t make a world where every human need would be easily provided for. He made a world that is as likely to kill a human as to let them live. And if they do live, it’s often in pain and distress.

God’s challenge is this - what are you made of? Maybe more accurately, what will you decide to do with what you are made of? Sure you serve me now, but what if your context changes, and you lose the use of a leg. Now, what kind of person are you?

If there were no challenges, and I mean life and death challenges, there would be no rewards. No virtue, no valor, no greatness.

But let’s be clear, the virtue isn’t that you have the challenge - the virtue is in how you overcome the challenge.

This is my answer to the problem of natural evil that seems to trip up the philosophers. They don’t know what to say, so some blame demons, or the necessity of tectonic plates, or something like that.

I believe that nature isn’t evil. It just is. And it’s part of a challenging world that kills people.

So the loss of the leg isn’t good. We don’t need to have our legs removed. We should try to preserve the legs of everyone. But the loss does not represent a failure of care on God’s part. The qgood that can be had is found in our Godly, courageous, response to the challenge entailed by the loss.

We are on the earth a very short time. Can you imagine showing up at the judgement, with no honors or rewards, because your life never had any challenges at all? And you never took any risks at all?

I believe it’s gonna happen! (Not to you, I mean in general):smiley: