The father son and holy spirit is the part of GOD and Jesus that helps me every singles day. With theses parts of the good lord Jesus Christ I can have a good day everyday. GOD has blessed to the fullest. Thank you to the father, son and the holy spirit
@Dlove782, I don’t quite understand your beliefs about God. Are you saying that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are parts of Jesus Christ? If so, why do you separate the Son and Jesus? Aren’t they the same Person? I believe that the Mystery that is the ONE God is also three Persons, the Father, Jesus, and the Spirit, as he reveals himself in the Gospel of John. Creation and salvation come FROM the Father THROUGH Jesus BY the Holy Spirit’s power. His mystery is what enables me to praise him all the more, because he is God, and I’m not with my limited thinking abilities.
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Yes Sir! They are the same. The catch and why I separated the two is because I was using son and Jesus in a different format of writing. Anyhow I do agree with your statement. I believe all these things and my knowledge of Jesus expands everyday!
Im not a fan of the classic diagram of thick lines of separation between Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
I agree they aren’t eachother.. but we are talking about one Triune being…..God.
Not three separate entities that are somehow ‘god’ in brackets.
God expressing Himself in three persons/substances.. is the way I like to see it.
Also that each of the three is fully God. There is subordination from Father to Son..but not inferiority.
The Son as the ‘very agent/expression’ of the Father, rather than a separate, inferior being.
I think the classic Trinity diagram needs dotted lines between the three to reflect how they exchange roles and are one God. For eg..in Revelation it is the Holy Spirit speaking to the churches, yet it is also Jesus speaking. Jesus is also given terms used for the Father.. ‘alpha and omega, the first and the last ‘.
@360Watt, where in the Bible is the phrase “alpha and omega, the first and the last” used for the Father? Jesus as fully human has a beginning, though he is always a divine Person of the one God. Do you believe that the Father has had a beginning? I don’t think so, but I’m curious about your thinking.
I get where you are coming from, but dotted lines will not fix a diagram that starts with the wrong blueprint. Scripture never depicts God as three distinct centers of consciousness bound by a shared essence. That is a philosophical construct, not a biblical revelation. The Bible reveals one God who manifests as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, not three divine individuals taking turns at the microphone.
When Jesus speaks in Revelation and the Spirit speaks to the churches, it is not role-swapping between separate beings. It is the one God making Himself known in different ways, yet never divided in nature, will, or identity. Isaiah 44:6 has YHWH saying He is the first and the last. Revelation 1:17 has Jesus saying the same thing. That is not “shared language between colleagues.” That is one God declaring His own eternal identity in the person of Christ.
Subordination in Scripture is about the incarnate Son’s role in redemption, not about eternal ranking within God’s being. As the man Christ Jesus, He submitted to the Father. As God, He is the Father revealed. No dotted line can capture that. The truest “diagram” is Colossians 2:9: all the fullness of the Godhead dwelling bodily in Christ. Anything else draws lines God never drew.
—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.
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In Revelation, Alpha and Omega is used also for the Father.
First and last isn’t a reference to a beginning, created point.. but the Creator eternal.
Neither Jesus nor the Father have a beginning.
Jesus was pre incarnate as the Word, and thru whom all was made.
Amen, @360watt!! You’re biblically right!
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exegesis
(14) Stuart Olyott writes "Seeing Jesus is actually called God, we are not surprised to find that the characteristics which belong to God are ascribed to Him. For instance, in Isaiah 44:6 we read of Jehovah saying, ‘I am the First and I am the Last.’ Yet in Revelation, Jesus says, ‘I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last’ (Revelation 22:13). Jehovah is eternal; Jesus is eternal. Clearly Jesus is Jehovah: he is God. (What the Bible Teaches about the Trinity)
Comment - It is interesting that in Rev 21:6 (see Tony Garland’s comment below) the Father calls Himself the “Alpha and the Omega” so clearly we should not be surprised that some OT uses of Jehovah clearly refer to the Father [Ps 2:7, Ps 110:1]. Similarly, although we normally think of Jesus as Savior in the NT, clearly in Jude 1:24-25 the Name “God our Savior” refers to the Father and not to the Son. These examples make it imperative to examine the context to arrive at the correct interpretation of a specific use of Jehovah. See related discussion below under “Caveats.” As Garland explains below, the use of the same Name for Father and Son should not be surprising in view of the fact that Jesus and His Father are One (Jn 10:30).
Tony Garland’s comment on Rev 21:6 and the phrase “I am the Alpha and the Omega” - I am is egō eimi : I, am. Great emphasis is placed upon the One speaking and His uniqueness. This unique title of God is applied both to the Father (here) and the Son (Rev. 22:13). The phrase is also applied to the Son in two parts (Rev. 1:11; 2:8). See commentary on Revelation 1:11. The same title, with the addition of “the First and the Last,” is taken by Jesus (Rev. 22:13). Jesus and the Father are One (John 10:30)! Jesus is “the Beginning of the creation of God” (Rev. 3:14-note).
Brother @Bruce_Leiter
The exact phrasing “Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last” applied to the Father occurs in Revelation 1:8, where the speaker identifies Himself as “the Lord God” and “the Almighty,” which clearly points to the Father in that context.
Revelation 1:8 — “I am the Alpha and the Omega, says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Here, the context of verse 4 (“Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come”) shows the speaker is the eternal God, the Father, distinct from “Jesus Christ” mentioned immediately afterward.
Additionally, in the Old Testament background, the phrase “the First and the Last” is explicitly applied to YHWH (the God of Israel, whom Jesus calls “the Father”)
Isaiah 44:6 — “Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.”
Isaiah 48:12 — “Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last.”
In Revelation, the title appears for the Father in 1:8 and for the Son in 1:17, 2:8, and 22:13, showing shared divine identity. The Father’s application in 1:8 links to His eternal sovereignty, while the Son’s later use emphasizes His resurrection and Lordship.
J.
Exactly. The fact that Alpha and Omega and First and Last are applied to both the Father and the Son is not a case of “title sharing” like two CEOs passing around a nameplate. It is a declaration of one divine identity revealed in two distinct missions. Isaiah 44:6 makes it clear that “First and Last” belongs to YHWH alone… yet Revelation unapologetically applies it to Jesus (1:17; 2:8; 22:13). Either John is committing theological treason, or the early Church knew exactly what it meant: the Son is the eternal LORD.
This is why the “pre-incarnate Word” in John 1:1–3 isn’t some junior agent subcontracting creation from the Father. “Through Him all things were made” because in Him “all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily” (Colossians 2:9). One will. One essence. One eternal life without beginning.
So when Jesus says in Revelation 22:13, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” He is not borrowing His Father’s stationery… He is speaking as the visible image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), the One who walked in Eden, thundered from Sinai, and will sit on the one throne of God and the Lamb (Revelation 22:3).
This is not title confusion. This is title confirmation.
—Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.
Brother, @Johann, you make a very good point, but what does the phrase mean? I think that it means he (the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit) is eternal. Some have taken it to mean that it means that he had a beginning. Other Scriptures show him to be eternal from the past into the future. Thus, it can’t mean that God began at some point.
Perhaps, it means that God was there in the beginning of this present creation and will be present at its end before he creates the new universe. I think he means it that way.
brother @Bruce_Leiter this is where morphology and syntax will help you.
The opening verses of John’s Gospel give us one of the most theologically rich and vivid glimpses into the nature of Jesus Christ: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” (John 1:1–3).
With these statements, John deliberately lays out the foundational doctrine upon which his entire message would stand—the deity of Jesus Christ. The fact that Jesus was in the beginning with God proves several key points: Jesus Christ is God—He is divine; He existed in the beginning because Jesus is eternal; He was not created in the beginning but is co-Creator. He was with God, distinct in personhood from the Father and a member of the triune Godhead.
Jesus Christ Is God
“The Word” (Logos in Greek) is an undeniable reference to Jesus Christ, as the Word was made flesh (John 1:14). John would emphasize the deity of Christ throughout his Gospel (John 1:14; 5:17–18; 10:30, 36–38; 12:45; 14:7, 9–11). In the book of Revelation, John reintroduces Jesus as the “Word of God” (Revelation 19:13).
Jesus Christ Is Eternal
John describes Jesus as pre-existent. Jesus was in the beginning with God means He was already present in Genesis 1:1 when the universe began. He has always existed (John 8:58). The writer of Hebrews applies Psalm 102:25–27 to Jesus: “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth and made the heavens with your hands. They will perish, but you remain forever. They will wear out like old clothing. You will fold them up like a cloak and discard them like old clothing. But you are always the same; you will live forever” (Hebrews 1:10–12, NLT).
Jesus Himself revealed in prayer that He shares in God’s eternality: “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began” (John 17:5; see also John 17:24). Again, in the book of Revelation, Jesus declares, “I am the Alpha and the Omega—the beginning and the end. . . . I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come—the Almighty One” (Revelation 1:8, NLT).
Jesus Christ Is Creator
Jesus was in the beginning with God means that Jesus was not a created being but an active co-Creator with God. The term for “with” in the original Greek expresses a living, dynamic union in the closest, most intimate sense. John could not state it any more precisely: “God created everything through him, and nothing was created except through him” (John 1:3, NLT; see also John 1:10).
The apostle Paul confirms, “For through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see—such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16, NLT).
Jesus Christ Is God the Son
Jesus was in the beginning with God also supports the doctrine of the Trinity. Jesus is God, yet He was “with God.” Jesus is distinct in His personhood from God the Father; He is God the Son. They are One but not identical. They interact with one another. The world was created by God through Jesus: “There is one God, the Father, by whom all things were created, and for whom we live. And there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created, and through whom we live” (1 Corinthians 8:6, NLT). As members of the Trinity, the Father and Son act distinctly but in close collaboration with one another (Genesis 1:1–3; cf. John 1:1–3).
The apostle Paul further describes this collaborative action in 2 Corinthians 4:6: “For God, who said, ‘Let there be light in the darkness,’ has made this light shine in our hearts so we could know the glory of God that is seen in the face of Jesus Christ” (NLT). Jesus reveals “the visible image of the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15–17, NLT). “The Son radiates God’s own glory and expresses the very character of God, and he sustains everything by the mighty power of his command” (Hebrews 1:3, NLT).
The same (houtos). “This one,” the Logos of Jhn_1:1, repeated for clarity, characteristic of John’s style. He links together into one phrase two of the ideas already stated separately, “in the beginning he was with God,” “afterwards in time he came to be with man” (Marcus Dods). Thus John clearly states of the Logos Pre-existence before Incarnation, Personality, Deity.
J.
@Johann, you lay the truth out very well. I agree with you.
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You write that I ‘do not understand the belief of Trinitarians.’
Unless you are over the age of seventy, I became a Trinitarian before you were born.
Concerning the Doctrine of the Trinity:
The Fourth Lateran Council (1215 C.E) declared:
‘We firmly believe and simply confess that there is only one true God, eternal and immeasurable, almighty, unchangeable, incomprehensible and ineffable, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, three persons but one absolutely simple essence, substance or nature.’ (Constitutions: 1. Confession of faith).
The Council of Basel (1431-45 C.E.) decreed:
‘First, then, the holy Roman church, founded on the words of our Lord and Saviour, firmly believes, professes and preaches one true God, almighty, immutable and eternal, Father, Son and Holy Spirit; one in essence, three in persons……………… These three persons are one God not three gods, because there is one substance of the three, one essence, one nature, one Godhead, one immensity, one eternity……. Therefore it condemns, reproves, anathematizes and declares to be outside the body of Christ, which is the church, whoever holds opposing or contrary views. Hence it condemns Sabellius, who confused the persons and altogether removed their real distinction. It condemns the Arians, the Eunomians and the Macedonians who say that only the Father is true God and place the Son and the holy Spirit in the order of creatures. It also condemns any others who make degrees or inequalities in the Trinity.’ (Session 114).
Tertullian, the third-century church father writes:
‘Father and Son and Spirit are three, however, not in status but in rank, not in substance but in form, not in power but in appearance; they are, however, of one substance and of one status and of one power, because God is one, from whom these ranks and forms and appearances are designated in name as Father and Son and Holy Spirit.’ (Adversus Praxean; Chapter 2).
Trinitarians believe that within the Godhead (the ‘one Substance’) the Father is entirely within the Son and entirely within the Holy Spirit. The Son is entirely within the Father and entirely within the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is entirely within the Father and entirely within the Son. In other words, the three Persons form a single unity, indivisible and permanent. They are not three persons standing side by side, so to speak.
As you can see from the above, the Church teaches that God is ‘immutable’.
By ‘immutable’ is meant that in God there can be no change whatsoever.
The Dominican theologian, St Thomas Aquinas bases the absolute immutability of God on His absolute simplicity (a Spirit, having no parts); on His pure actuality (He has no potential for change); and on His infinite perfection.
According to Aquinas, mutability includes potentiality, composition and imperfection and as such is irreconcilable with God as ‘actus purus’ (the absolutely simple, absolutely perfect Essence). (cf. Summa Theologica: Part 1; Question 9; Article 1).
The 4th Lateran Council and the First Vatican Council taught that man consists of two essential parts – a material body and a spiritual soul (Denzinger 428, 1783).
Fourth Eucharistic Prayer (part of the Catholic liturgy) states (my emphasis):
‘And you so loved the world, Father most holy, that in the fullness of time you sent your Only Begotten Son to be our Savior. Made incarnate by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary, he shared our human nature in all things but sin.’
Humans have but one nature (I know of no Christian doctrine that teaches otherwise).
If Christ has two natures (one human and one divine) then he cannot possibly be like us in ‘all things but sin.’
If, on the other hand, he truly is like us in all things (but sin) then he cannot possibly be God.
Trinitarians simply cannot have it both ways.
There is broad agreement among New Testament scholars (and has been for decades) that Yeshua did not consider himself to be God.
Consider, by way of example, the following quotations (from Trinitarians):
‘Any case for a “high” Christology that depended on the authenticity of the alleged claims of Jesus about himself, especially in the Fourth Gospel, would indeed be precarious.’ (The Rev. C.F.D Moule: ‘The Origin of Christology’).
‘Jesus did not claim deity for himself’ (Archbishop Michael Ramsey: ‘Jesus and the Living Past’).
‘There is good evidence to suggest that (Jesus) never saw himself as a suitable object of worship’ and that it is impossible to base any claim for Christ’s divinity on his consciousness once we abandon the traditional portrait as reflected in a literal understanding of St. John’s Gospel’ (The Rev. David Brown: ‘The Divine Trinity’)
‘It is no longer possible to defend the divinity of Jesus by reference to the claims of Jesus’ (Canon Brian Hebblethwaite: ‘The Incarnation’).
Here is a quote by Cliff Reed, a Unitarian minister:
‘Unitarians believe that Jesus was a man, unequivocally human. It has long been our view that to talk of him as God is unfaithful to his own understanding of himself. The New Testament accounts describe a Jewish man, chosen, raised up, adopted and anointed by God. They claim that the divine purpose was that Jesus should reconcile first the Jews and then all humanity to each other and to God. This would prepare the way for the Messianic age of peace.’ (Sourced from a Unitarian website).
I agree with Cliff Reed.
I agree with all your people whom you quote, @Niblo, but when I go to the whole Gospel of John, I see the clear teaching that God is three Persons in one God.
I remember studying the subject in seminary and ran across a commentary on that gospel by a scholar who didn’t believe that God inspired the Bible. However, he came to the conclusion at the end that John believed in the Trinity.
Well, I believe that God inspired John to reveal through Jesus’ actions and words that he was one of three Persons of the one true God, even though that teaching of God’s Word is a mystery.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the LORD.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Good morning, Bruce.
I apologise for the delayed reply.
The company I work with (I am its HR and ISO Adviser) has recently acquired another; and I am up to my neck examining that company’s HR and ISO procedures. This has already involved contract changes, and changes to the new company’s bonus system. At the age of almost 80, I should be making full use of my PhD in Sofology, and not gadding about! 
. (I have to admit, I do enjoy my work).
In šāʾ Allāh, I shall return to our conversation sooner, rather that later.
In the meantime, take good care of yourself, and may the Beloved bless you, and all those you love.
Very best regards.
Paul
At the age of almost 66, @Niblo, I was no longer able to be a pastor at the physical level I needed. Thus, my late wife and I retired. Then, God changed my gifts from preaching and teaching to creativity by way of writing. Now, at almost 83, God has given me online and book-writing ministries, which keep me busy. Thus, I sympathize.
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What’s really awesome about Trinitarian theology is we don’t have to figure it out for ourselves, the work has already been done. Solid, historic, orthodox Trinitarianism is very well defined:
”We worship God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, neither confusing the Persons nor dividing the Essence.” - Athanasian Creed
Not three substances, but three Hypostases, or Persons.
One Substance or Essence or Being.
We begin by speaking of the Father, the one Almighty God, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen. Then of the only-begotten Son of the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ, who is of the same-essence of the Father, the Son is therefore God of God; what the Father is the Son is also. And we speak of the Holy Spirit, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son], who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified–for the Spirit likewise is of the same-essence of the Father, and of the Son.
The Son is God because He is of the Father’s Essence, He is Eternal and Uncreated and Almighty God because the Father is Eternal and Uncreated and Almighty God.
The Holy Spirit is God because He is the Father’s Essence, He is Eternal and Uncreated and Almighty God because the Father is Eternal and Uncreated and Almighty God.
So there is one God, three Persons. Of one Essence. The Son and the Spirit are of the Father’s Essence, the Son is begotten, the Spirit is proceeding–not in time but in eternity. There was never a time the Father wasn’t Father, He has always been Father of His Son; there is, therefore never a time when the Son was not, but is co-eternal with His Father; and there was never a time when the Spirit was not, for He is Spirit of the Father and Spirit of the Son (for the same Spirit of God who hovered over the primordial waters in Genesis is also called the the Spirit of Christ by the Apostle).
The Father is God.
The Son is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.
But not three Gods, but one God.
The Father is not the Son, nor the Holy Spirit. But Father. Distinct unto Himself as the One of Whom the Son is begotten and the Spirit proceeding.
The Son is not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit. But Son. Distinct unto Himself as the One who is begotten of the Father, and through Whom the Spirit is proceeding.
The Holy Spirit is not the Father, nor the Son. But Holy Spirit. Distinct unto Himself as the One who is proceeding of the Father through the Son.
One God. Holy Trinity.
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Saved this reply TNerd, as it really broke it down for me. THX
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: How Do You Understand the Godhead?
Are we attempting to define something we don’t understand and may never understand?
Augustine considered the Trinity one of the complex topics, and he defined it almost 1600 years ago.