Healing & a Fifteen Character Minimum

Theology
41

Bob, saying “the Lord is teaching us how to live a life without pain” sounds sweet—but it’s biblically delusional.

The Lord isn’t teaching us how to escape pain—He’s teaching us how to be faithful through it.

The whole testimony of Scripture is soaked in the blood, tears, and endurance of God’s people:

“Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.” (Acts 14:22)

“Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus.” (2 Timothy 2:3)

“For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for Him.” (Philippians 1:29)

Granted to suffer. A gift, not a glitch.

God isn’t offering a “life hack” to avoid suffering.

He’s offering Himself—the Comforter, not the Comfort Zone.

If living without pain was the curriculum, Jesus flunked His own class—because He was “a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief” (Isaiah 53:3).

And if the sinless Son of God walked through agony, betrayal, torture, and death…

What fantasy land are we living in if we think the lesson plan for us is “pain-free living”?

God’s goal isn’t to bubble-wrap us from suffering.

It’s to forge Christlikeness through suffering.

“We rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope.” (Romans 5:3–4)

No cross, no crown.

42

Romans8:28 says nothing about being disciplined, it is about accepting what God has planned for us, which can include horrible things like unemployment, bereavement, perscution.
From your answer you do not believe the romans 8 passage.

43

That is what the Lord is doing - teaching us to be citizens of heaven.

44

You don’t think the Lord disciplines us?

45

Bob, yes—the Lord is teaching us to be citizens of heaven.

But heavenly citizenship isn’t learned in a bubble. It’s forged in the fire.

Hebrews 12:6 says:

“The Lord disciplines the one He loves, and He chastens everyone He accepts as His son.”

You know what that word chasten means? Pain with purpose.

Jesus didn’t disciple men by removing pain—He walked with them through it.

Paul didn’t become a heavenly citizen by avoiding hardship—he embraced the thorn, the shipwreck, the beatings, because he knew the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing to the glory that will be revealed. (Romans 8:18)

So yes, the Lord is preparing us for heaven.

But He’s not doing it with spa days and miracle band-aids.

He’s doing it by conforming us to Christ—and Christ learned obedience through what He suffered. (Hebrews 5:8)

If we’re learning to be citizens of heaven, we better get used to kingdom math:

Suffering now, glory later.

Cross before crown.

Sanctification before celebration.

46

Well, yes, learning to be a citizen of heaven isn’t necessarily easy. We can make it a lot easier if we obey the Lord.

47

Bob, you’re not wrong that obedience matters—it absolutely does.
But suggesting that obeying God will make the road easier sounds like you’re pitching Christianity Lite™: “Now with 50% less tribulation!”

Let’s be clear: obedience doesn’t reduce the heat—it often increases it.

Jesus obeyed perfectly—and got a cross.
Paul obeyed—and got beaten, jailed, and stoned.
Stephen obeyed—and got a front-row seat to glory via a pile of rocks.

Obedience isn’t a shortcut to ease—it’s a path into the fiery furnace where faith is refined and flesh is crucified.

“Indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.” – 2 Timothy 3:12
“Take up your cross and follow Me.” – Luke 9:23
“Do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal… as though something strange were happening to you.” – 1 Peter 4:12

Pain isn’t proof you disobeyed. Sometimes it’s proof you’re on the right road.

Obedience doesn’t guarantee comfort—it guarantees conflict with the world and crucifixion of the flesh.
But it also guarantees Christ with us in the storm. That’s the treasure.

“Obedience isn’t a painkiller—it’s a passport into the battlefield.”

48

When we sin, trouble enters our lives. When we obey the Lord and don’t sin, that doesn’t happen. That is why obedience matters.

49

Sorry Bob, that is unbiblical superstition.
Lok at the events in the apostle Pauls life?
Are you saying he was suffering beati gs, stonning, ship wrecks etc just becahse he sinned.
Back to Jim Elliot, did he get murfered because he sinned?

Lastly what you’ve proposed does not explain romans 8:28.

50

Unbiblical superstition? I know what life is like when I am sinning, and I know what life is like when I am not inning.

51

Because He is God ! He is sovereign. Never question His ways, they are far above our ways.
Job 13:15
Authorized (King James) Version
15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him:
but I will maintain mine own ways before him.
Isaiah 55:8-9
Authorized (King James) Version
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways,
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

52

Bob, you’ve just preached a gospel that Job, Jesus, and every martyred saint would find unrecognizable.

You said: “When we obey and don’t sin, trouble doesn’t happen.”

Tell that to Daniel in the lion’s den.

Tell that to Jeremiah, thrown in a pit because he obeyed.

Tell that to Jesus—the sinless Lamb of God—who was despised, rejected, and crucified.

Obedience does guard us from the consequences of our own sin, yes.

But it doesn’t shield us from the brokenness of a fallen world, the attacks of the enemy, or the refining fires God ordains for our sanctification.

You’ve confused discipline for sin with suffering for faithfulness.

Big difference. One is corrective. The other is refining.

“Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.” – Job 13:15

“For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in His steps.” – 1 Peter 2:21

“Many are the afflictions of the righteous, but the Lord delivers him out of them all.” – Psalm 34:19

So yes, obedience matters.

But if you’re preaching that obedience equals a suffering-free life, you’re not preaching Christ crucified—you’re preaching comfort idolized.

Let’s not trade the cross for a cushion.

53

Please apply this teaching to the life of the apostle Paul.
Then tell us why he suffered so much.

54

I’m not preaching a gospel. I’ just testifying that when I sin, suffering always follows. When I repent, the Lord forgives my sin and I have peace.

55

Alright, Bob—on that note, you’ve just hit solid gold. No snark needed here, just a hearty amen and a little sharpening of the iron.

You said you’re not preaching a gospel—but brother, you just did. Whether you meant to or not, your testimony is a gospel echo: sin brings suffering, repentance brings mercy, and peace is the fruit of forgiveness. That’s Romans 6, 1 John 1:9, and Luke 15 all wrapped into one.

But let’s not stop there.

Because the real question isn’t if you feel peace after repentance—it’s what you’re doing with that testimony. Are you just holding it quietly in your heart, or are you stepping out with it like a lamp in a dark world? Because this world doesn’t just need personal peace, it needs public truth—and that truth has a name: Jesus Christ crucified, risen, and reigning.

So whether you think you’re preaching or not, just know:
Every time you speak about sin, repentance, and forgiveness—you’re not just testifying.

You’re declaring war on hell.
Keep going.