A buddy of mine keeps saying science has basically settled it and faith is just for people who haven’t caught up yet. I don’t think that’s true, but I always freeze up when he says it. Romans 1:20 says God’s invisible qualities have been clearly seen in what He made, and honestly the more I learn about how detailed everything is, the more that lands for me. But I don’t want to just quote a verse at him. How do you all handle that conversation without it turning into an argument?
“Science” started out as measure the laws God put in his creation.This gave it legitimacy. Satan then put it in universities and specialized so that one academic would trust what another said. In this way Satan could hijack the truth of God and use that reputation to impart legitimacy to every harebrained pronouncement from a university.
Here is an interesting article touching on this subject.
How Science was Hijacked
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
The Greek word translated “science” is gnosis which means knowledge. Similar to “babblings”, this false”knowledge” might be seen as baseless assertions. Often made by people with an exaggerated opinion of themselves, these assertions can be harmful to those bullied into accepting them as truth.
If one considers institutions of higher learning, one can find a concentration of this sort of false “knowledge”. The Greek academy descended into sophistry as the logic of argument gave way to the theater of the posturing attorney. In recent times those who were exploring the creation of God and measuring the rules God had established for nature to function, what is called science gained credibility because it was a reflection of the truth of God through his creation.
Once institutions were established information about creation became considered the sacred purview of scholars, these were divided into areas of specialization such as physics, chemistry, and biology. As a result, scholars accepted as truth what others outside of their field of specialization declared. Even within their own fields speculation started to replace fact. God was removed from his creation and so-called natural laws were studied as if they had come into being on their own.
Evolution was a key advance in removing God from his creation. The idea that nothing existed and then blew up to become everything which then organized itself into us was welcomed as it allowed man to see himself at the pinnacle of the universe. Things like potical “science” and social “science” began to be added to the knowledge base as equal to the truth found in nature. In a way it allowed a replacement “truth” to be used.
Perhaps the Kinsey Report published in the late 1940s was a test to see how ridiculous what was passing for “science” could be foisted on a gullible public. While human conspiracy theories imply a level of competence not often seen, Satanic manipulation should be expected as he is said to set the course of the world (Eph 2:2). One might see him as advancing collectivism in general so that he might be able to leverage his influence to make his move to try to take over the world. One might also see his hand in the establishment of universities in an attempt to promote an alternative to truth that makes humans blind and vulnerable to his other manipulations.
The bible tells us that knowledge puffs up (1Cor 8:1), but wisdom is from God (James 1:5). Having a high IQ allows one to retain a lot of knowledge, but can actually hinder wisdom and the perception of truth. The commercial world and academia can provide an almost endless supply of “experts” making all sorts of assertions to manipulate people into submitting to their “expertise”.
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. - John 8:31-32
This is a tough one. I think someone’s heart has to be softened by the Holy Spirit for them to be persuaded on this. However, it could be helpful to remind your friend that there is so much we don’t yet know about science and the way the world works that we are actually exercising faith in the realm of science every day. Perhaps if you can allow him to be open to the necessity of faith, even apart from God, that is a step in the right direction.
At the core here is that your friend simply has an opinion.
Science doesn’t address the question of God’s existence or not. Science can only deal with material, observable, naturalistic things. Even the most hardline atheist that is a scientist would agree with this.
I’d want to know your friend’s reasoning, and then work from there.
Because at the moment it’s a total non-sequitur of an argument, there’s no logical sequence, but a mere leap to a conclusion.
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Thanks both, that helps. I like what DaughterOfEve24 said about hearts needing to be softened. For the 1 Tim 6:20 point, I read that as a warning about knowledge that contradicts God, not knowledge itself, and Psalm 19:1 says the heavens declare the glory of God, so honest science and faith don’t have to fight.
People put their faith in that which they see as true and trustworthy. For some it is what God has done and revealed in his word. For others it is what man has claimed.
There is a book called Evidence That Demands a A Verdict. However, it is of little interest to those who are satisfied with their present “religion” like the religion of secularism (the worship of man in general and self in particular).
That’s a fair point, timf. Everybody trusts something, so the real question is what is worth trusting. I’d say a friend usually listens more to a kind, honest conversation than to a pile of evidence. “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1) Maybe just asking him what would count as good evidence is a decent place to start.
@pwgjonathan
I don’t mean to make light of your situation, but this question always reminds me of a fanciful story.
Some very clever scientist had been working on The God principle, and had finally arrived at human divinity, in their own estimation. They conferred and decided someone should tell God he could retire, he was no longer needed. Science could now do everything God can do. The Physicist was chosen and off he went.
The physicist met with God and politely said “We sincerely appreciate everything you have done to this point, and that you got us off on the right footing, but we now feel very confident our science. It has advanced to the point that we can run the world on our own, without help from you. “Can you control the weather?” God asked. “Yes, we are quite capable in that department” said the scientist. “Can you provide enough light to make plants grow? Asked God. “Yes, we are very good at that too” said the scientist. “Can you create life? God asked. “Why yes, with advancements in cloning, creating life is our greatest accomplishment so far” said the scientist. God said “Can you create life from plain dirt? “Uh, Yes, I think we can” said the scientist. God said “Show me!” So the confident scientist reached down and scooped up a test-tube full of dirt, when God said “Whoa, what are you doing? Get your own dirt!”
I appreciate the responses here that recognize science is limited to studying natural phenomena, and has no skill or expertise studying supernatural phenomena. Science does not try. Good science is very honorable, and has provided much to alleviate pain, suffering, and disaster. We owe good scientist our greatest respect and appreciation. We do not look to them for supernatural answers to supernatural questions. They simply do not study that discipline. That’s not to say we have not had some scientist who are also spiritual persons, and faithful disciples of Jesus. Some of the very best are. Even so, strict scientific study will never probe the supernatural or transcendent. It is not designed to. Science has no capability to experiment on supernatural subjects using natural tools and equipment.
KP
Ha, that’s a good one, KP, thanks. And I like how you put it, science is a great tool but it was never built to test the supernatural, so using it to rule God out is like using a ruler to weigh something. It also helps me stay humble when I talk to my buddy, since I don’t have to win, I just have to be honest and kind. “The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.” (Psalm 19:1) Seems like good science and worship can sit at the same table.
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If people don’t want to believe in God, they don’t have to. It’s their problem, not ours. I know God exists because if I listen to him, he solves all my problems for me.