Statements included in Harris’ platform document regarding abortion, repeal of the Hyde Amendment, and gender affirming surgeries aren’t consistent with Christian beliefs.
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You don’t speak for all of Christianity. And if you endorse Trump- who is anti abortion in name only- your whole point is moot. I think some folks would vote for Satan himself if he said he was against abortion.
And scripture gives a recipe for abortion if
A woman is suspected of adultery.
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Thank you. Where in the Bible is that scripture located?
Numbers 5:11-31.
A good look at life before science and what women had to undergo.
Free speech as guaranteed in the Constitution doesn’t guarantee one the right to speak anywhere, any time.
Right… if one wishes to test it just go to an airport and walk up to TSA and say, “bomb”.
Numbers 5:11-31 depicts a test for adultery and is not a recipe for terminating a pregnancy. The ritual was offered ultimately to protect the woman from her husband’s spirit of jealousy that might result in false accusations, abuse, or being cast aside. The effects of the “water of bitterness” were mild at best as the recipe was holy water and dust, not something that would normally produced severe swelling or illness. If the woman would get sick, this probably indicated a supernatural work by God to reveal her guilt.
This video explains it more thoroughly.
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Incorrect. This was
A. About the man, nothing about it protected a woman-who could lose her life for adultery. , but could not charge her husband with the act.
B. Did indeed result in abortion.
I have not heard any scholar say otherwise.
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To “protect the woman”??? The speaker in the video sounds like a 21st century Patriarchal Pollyanna.
The Wikipedia article seems quite comprehensive and well-done: Ordeal of the bitter water - Wikipedia.
It doesn’t sound like any fetus was likely to survive that.
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This is what happens when apologetics replaces scholarship.
Levitical law states that the punishment for adultery, either man or woman, was death (Leviticus 20), so a guilty man was certainly not off the hook.
How did you conclude that it did result in an abortion?
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The scripture says if guilty, the fetus will miscarry.
21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
Swoop in, drop an arrogant remark, then leave. How classy of you.
Some translations, like the NIV, choose to use miscarry but many don’t go that far and translate it more directly as “abdomen swell” and “thigh fall away” - meaning to fall, but let’s agree water with dirt mixed is not a recipe for abortion. If a miscarriage resulted, it would have been a result of God’s judgment for her guilt.
“Thigh” doesn’t mean leg in this instance, and is used for all reproductive organs in ancient Hebrew. Her reproductive organs would swell and sometimes burst. Horrible death for the mother, but women were property in ancient culture.
Instead of apologetics, look at this for what it was: aborting a bastard child. Even if the jealous husband had no proof of adultery. The woman had no say so in the matter. If God chose this way of punishing the woman killing the fetus is still abortion.
In ancient Israel. Breath is the sign of life. Later, we see quickening as an example of life. Killing the fetus because mom allegedly slept around was perfectly okay.
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Hello? So if the woman is guilty, God kills the baby? Nice.
Your understanding of the ceremony and the water itself seems a bit Pollyannish. Here is an authoritative description from the Shalvi/Hyman Encyclopedia of Jewish Women: Legal-Religious Status of the Suspected Adulteress (Sotah) | Jewish Women’s Archive. It is eye-popping.
A sample quote:
The entire process leading up to the trial is one of humiliation and degradation of the woman and attempts to frighten her into admitting her guilt: her garments are ripped by the priest to expose her breasts; her hair is unbound, in contrast to the norm of married women; if she is wearing white she is forced to change into black clothing and remove all ornaments and jewelry; her torn clothing is bound to her by Egyptian rope above her breasts (to emphasize her adherence to the abominations of Egypt); many women are gathered and any men who wish to observe the trial (except her own male and female slaves and servants) are allowed to witness her humiliation, apparently as a means to deter such acts among spectators; she is walked to distant sections of the Temple area in order to tire her out; her sacrifice is a barley meal offering, considered to be animal food, and it is unaccompanied by oil or incense; she is forced to hold the meal offering given to her by her husband in an Egyptian basket in an effort to exhaust her (and only later is the meal offering transferred to a Temple vessel); water from the Temple laver is placed in a new ceramic bowl to which was added dust found underneath a particular flagstone on the tabernacle floor as well as a bitter-tasting substance; the curses concerning the sotah must be written explicitly for her in the daytime and are written with a particular ink which will dissolve on a parchment suitable for writing a Torah scroll; the priest makes her swear an oath in a language which she understands and the woman answers, “Amen, amen” to the curse and to the oath that she did not commit adultery from her betrothal to her marriage and after her marriage.
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By the way I am not advocating for abortion past quickening. There are very good reasons to limit the procedure, and supporting living children with free healthcare, after care for the woman, financial support , getting teens on consistent birth control as soon as possible, and aggressive pursuit of deadbeat dads is the best way to lower abortion rates. but those reasons and calls for support are not spelled out in scripture. Living by a culture of thousands of years ago isn’t feasible.
Yes. We can deduce this because drinking water mixed with dirt from the temple would not result in an abortion taking place by itself. So yes, it would be a judgment from God for the guilty. This passage dealt with a woman suspected of adultery by her husband and her husbands spirit of jealousy. As mentioned before, Leviticus 20 speaks to the penalty of any man or woman caught in adultery.
And yes, if miscarriage resulted, it was unfair to the unborn child. It speaks to the absolute tragedy of the consequences of sin. We see it every day in our world. How many innocent lives have been lost in the wars around us?
God is holy and any rebellion against him carries the penalty of death. The whole of scripture speaks to this. But God, in his mercy, provided a way out in sending his Son to live the perfect life, fulfill scripture, and die as a substitutionary atonement for us.
It’s becoming apparent to me that we are on different tracks when it comes to interpreting scripture and we likely won’t agree on anything. So I’ve said my piece, and will now exit this conversation. Thank you.
Wow. Just wow. The baby is “guilty.” Uh-huh, OK. But the ceremony contemplates that even a guilty woman may, in fact, survive. Oops for your death penalty theology, no?
BTW, it wasn’t just “dust and water.” It was dirt from under a PARTICULAR stone in the Temple, an unknown “bitter substance,” and a dissolved ink-stained parchment. If it weren’t pretty lethal stuff, it never would’ve “worked” and would have pretty quickly become an embarrassment to the patriarchal society. (Gee, the last 147 guys who have accused their wives of adultery have been wrong - maybe we need a new formula?)
Trying to convince others you are correct in your beliefs by showing what others believe is like trying to say the kids that stood up at the kamala rally shouldn’t have done that cause not everyone believes as they do. If what you say is true about many different Christian stances on abortion then conversation about those positions is useless and serves no purpose. The only stance that matters is God’s stance. And the only place you will find that is in his word. We can find anything we want to know there. If we look hard enough and pray.