We are in NO MAN’S land when we cling to experience outside of scripture. God’s Word has been given to us to know whether something is of God and from God or not. God does not make people do things like some of these supporters claim He does…it is fake
I do truly believe that if God chooses, of course, you can be “slain in the Spirit” or “Speak in tongues.” As an actual language. Not some Gooney googoo stuff. But I feel that if these are real, and for all as some claim, all would receive and experience these things. No?
Peter
[quote=“PeterC, post:148, topic:8200”]
I do truly believe that if God chooses, of course, you can be “slain in the Spirit” or “Speak in tongues.”
[/quote] Speaking in tongues is Biblical…but slain in the spirit is not
I am still in the Land of the Lord, not majoring on experiences, but accepting most if they do not go against Biblical truth including the Lordship of the Lord Jesus. You would be majoring on these experiences and denying God can use or send them, while I am majoring on the encounter with God that each event in all about.
l
They are available, but not likely unless they are taught or the person knows of another who has encountered God this way and is suggestible to such an experience. This probably is all unconscious, but that is where God often moves
I am talking about in our present day. Of course, originally. God just brought these experiences due to His own divine will. There was no need for human influence.
That is how I see it to be truthful. In psychology and marketing, this is called “Social Proof.” It’s the idea that when people are uncertain about how to behave, they look to those around them to determine the “correct” or “appropriate” action. Example: If you see a crowd of people looking up at the sky, you will likely feel an almost physical pull to look up too.
Then you also have the “Mimetic Desire.” If the “something” people are doing involves wanting or buying into a specific objective, it might be “Mimetic Desire.” This theory suggests that we don’t actually know what we want, so we imitate the desires of others. We want the same gifts, speaking in tongues, being slain in the Spirit, because we see others doing it and wanting them.
Peter
I try to keep an open mind, but admit I’m skeptical and its probably because I’ve never had that experience. However, a Paster I admire did have this experience once and he was more skeptical than me. He was ministering to a group of Pentecostal women who believed that the baptism of the Spirit was accompanied by speaking in tongues. He didn’t speak in tongues, but he was a gifted teacher of the Word. During his teaching he was slain in the spirit (as they call it) and he described it as ‘the biggest skeptic in the room went down like a ton of bricks”. It was a one time experience for him.
The Bible does mention a few times where people fell at the feet of Jesus as though dead. Daniel was one. John was another. (Eze 1:28, Daniel 8:17-18, 10:7-9, Matt 17:6, Rev 1:17) are a few examples. Whether that is the same thing or not, I don’t know. The devil is a counterfeiter. He can’t create anything and he does counterfeit the gifts of the Spirit. That’s why we must test every spirit. My thinking is that it’s sometimes a counterfeit because of how uneasy it makes me feel at times and because of what else is going on. But sometimes it is the Holy Spirit and its up to me to discern what’s behind it.
I try to be careful when someone shares their spiritual experience with me, especially if its something I’ve never experienced. As long as it doesn’t contradict the Word, I keep an open mind without making a judgement as to whether its right or wrong. It isn’t necessary that I judge what they experienced. The Word; both old and new testament, is filled with spiritual experiences given by God to His people for a purpose. I’ve had spiritual experiences that I share with just a few because I know how quickly and easily others can judge it.
True, Sometimes we copy or mimic others all but t other times we have the direct revelation from God and respond to Him with all our hearts, minds and bodies without reference to other people. Direct revelation from God we can’t really influence. It is God and the person His Spirit is moving on. There is a danger of duplicating the person’s reactions to God, but we preach against that. Each person needs to respond to God in his own way without considering how so and so did. When Paul gave us this list of 9 spirituals it was just a sample of all He might give to the church to bring in His Kingdom on earth. The truth that is essential is that He is Lord and He changes hearts for His own glory and that he works within the Body of Christ to demonstrate his Gospel.
The gift of being able to cast out demons is not listed by Paul. Maybe this because it might be included in healings or miracles, but something happens within certain believers to inspire faith to take authority over a demon in someone, and this kind of anointing does not happen to others. Not just any Christian should get involved in deliverance. It takes a special gift, although we know that theoretically we all have the authority to cast out devils in the Name of Jesus, we do not all feel this drive and anointing to do so. God works with the human personalities that He has to get all that He wants done in His church and on the field of mission outside the church.
As someone who is on the one hand, a pretty logic-fact-orientated person; and on the other a deeply emotional and creative person. I don’t know that the whole left brain/right brain dichotomy really actually means anything. I think we’re all a mix of the two.
When I attend Mass (Lutheran) it’s not left-brain or right-brain. It’s the Christ-centeredness of it. I am entering into the Holy of Holies, and I am in awe.
I totally understand what you are saying. I attended a “Blues Brothers” style church. If you know, you know. The Pastor came up and slapped me on the head. I was expecting to feel, well, something. I have seen all these people fall, jump around, etc. I was excited. I waited.. I got? Nothing. I felt nothing. The Pastor looked me in the eye and said: “The devil wants you too.”
I do believe in the Gifts.
“There are different kinds of gifts. But it is the same Holy Spirit who gives them. There are different kinds of work to be done for Him. But the work is for the same Lord. There are different ways of doing His work. But it is the same God who uses all these ways in all people.
The Holy Spirit works in each person in one way or another for the good of all. One person is given the gift of teaching words of wisdom. Another person is given the gift of teaching what he has learned and knows. These gifts are by the same Holy Spirit. One person receives the gift of faith. Another person receives the gifts of healing. These gifts are given by the same Holy Spirit. One person is given the gift of doing powerful works. Another person is given the gift of speaking God’s Word. Another person is given the gift of telling the difference between the Holy Spirit and false spirits. Another person is given the gift of speaking in special sounds. Another person is given the gift of being able to tell what these special sounds mean. But it is the same Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, who does all these things. He gives to each person as He wants to give.” 1 Corinthians 12:4-11
I do not believe only one person, or every person, receives all the gifts. I do not believe a child of God is a Jedi. Being able to accomplish anything with their special powers. So yes, I am just as skeptical of anyone who says, “I have the gift of healing, prophecy, or tongues, with the interpretation of the same tongues,” as I am skeptical of anyone who said the speak to the dead or see the future. Like you, though, I try not to judge the validity of the child of God making the claim.
Peter
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”The demon said, “I know Jesus. I know about Paul. But who are you?” Acts 19:15
That is not something I would take lightly. Look around. I mentioned this before, uh, somewhere, but have you ever watched a video of one of these street preachers being confronted? These people are either insane or possessed. They have, in some cases, totally mutilated their own bodies, deny anything holy, and either scream. Nothing. Just scream, or they literly start barking. Sad really.
Peter
Absolutely! I am talking about some people being more sensitive to the emotional side of life than the logical/rational side. Some may get little from a sermon, but get an amazing amount from the icons (art) or music. All of it is in view of honoring and worshipping God in Spirit and truth.
I too am reticent to say that “a person has a certain gift”. I would prefer to say that “a person is often used in a certain gift”. The gifts are given to the church, not to individuals. Certain people have more experience in showing a gift but that gift that they show or manage is not theirs. It belongs to the church, and God can use another person some time. We can be used in a gift, but we do not cling to one like it is a ability that we own.
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Some people who think they have a deliverance ministry possibly need delivering themselves sometimes.
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