Is Jesus God Himself or One Person Within God?

Theology
306

Don’t be concerned, I’ll NOT take your word for it. I will instead believe what my Heavenly Father said in His Word…

Jer 4:23-28
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void (Hebrew tohuw va bohuw); and the heavens, and they had no light.

24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.

25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.

26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by His fierce anger.

27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
KJV

Do I really have to repeat the following verse again??? I guess so…

Isa 45:18
18 For thus saith the LORD That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain (Hebrew tohuw), He formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
KJV

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You are deflecting Davy, but it is understandable.

Shalom.

J.

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Brethren in Christ, the above falsehoods like the above usually start when someone who is so full of self-pride isn’t heeded when they think whatever they claim is right, and everyone else is wrong. I know in time, he will eventually come to the Truth in God’s written Word that I have shown (and as many others have in the Church), but maybe not now.

So I will pray for you Johann.

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I’m getting used to these outbursts about me being “prideful,” Davy, so I’ll leave you in peace.

J.

310

Are you just being stubborn in releasing the false doctrine that you most likely got through, classic Unitarian / Jehovah’s Witness (Arian) arguments , or are you ignorant and unwilling to learn?

“Firstborn” (Prototokos) Does Not Mean “First Created” (Protoktistos). You build your core argument on Colossians 1:15, asserting that “firstborn of all creation” makes Jesus part of creation. I think we went over this before; however, the Greek word used in Colossians 1:15 is prototokos (πρωτότοκος), which means preeminent, supreme over, or legal heir.

The Word for “First Created”: If Paul wanted to say Jesus was the first creature made, he would have used protoktistos (πρωτόκτιστος), a completely different Greek word meaning “first created.” Paul deliberately did not use that word.

In the Bible, “firstborn” is a title of rank and authority, not chronological birth or creation order. David: In Psalm 89:27, God says of David, “I will appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.” David was the youngest (8th) son of Jesse, yet he was given the rank of “firstborn.”

Ephraim: In Jeremiah 31:9, God calls Ephraim His “firstborn,” even though Manasseh was born first (Genesis 41:51–52). The Context of Colossians 1:18 defines what Paul means: “that in everything he might be preeminent.” Jesus is the “firstborn over creation” because He is the Supreme Heir and Ruler over it, not because He is part of it.

You claim Trinitarians ignore verse 15 to write verse 16. However, looking at Colossians 1:16–17 logically shows that Jesus cannot be a created being.

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent.”

For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together. And he is the head of the body, the church. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in everything he might be preeminent."

Paul divides everything into two categories: the Creator and the created (“all things”). If Jesus created all things (Greek: ta panta - the totality of everything) and exists before all things, He cannot be part of the “all things” that were created.

To make Jesus a created being, one has to manually insert the word “other” into the text—which is precisely why the Jehovah’s Witness New World Translation inserted the word “other” four times in Colossians 1:16–17 (“all [other] things”), despite “other” (allos or heteros) not appearing anywhere in the original Greek text.

You try quoting Isaiah 44:24, thinking it disproves the Trinity:

“I am Jehovah, doing all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself, Spreading out the earth – who is with Me?”

This verse creates a fatal logical dilemma for your position. If Jehovah created the universe alone (“by Myself” / “who was with Me?”), but Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3 explicitly state that Jesus created all things, there are only two possibilities:

Scripture contradicts itself (Isaiah says God was alone; Colossians says Jesus did it). Jesus is included in the identity of Jehovah (the one true God who created all things). Trinitarian theology harmonizes these texts seamlessly: God (the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) created the universe alone without the help of any external created creature. If Jesus were a created intermediate agent separate from God’s identity, Isaiah 44:24 would be false.

Then you end by attacking Trinitarians generally, claiming they “refuse to be corrected by Scripture.”

Invoking 2 Timothy 3:16 goes both ways: correcting someone using Scripture requires handling the original language and broader context accurately, not forcing 19th-century Arian assumptions onto 1st-century Greek vocabulary (prototokos vs. protoktistos). Sorry, but you are simply wrong.

Be bless.

Peter

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I have this rectangular, shiny, reflective thing called a mirror; you may want to look into it.

Peter

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I really appreciate your pastoral heart and disposition, Pastor @PeterC, both in your ministry online and offline. And a big shout-out to you for protecting my back. It genuinely means a lot.

Johann.

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Hey, when you are right, you are right. When Davey is wrong and so closed-minded, he resorts to name-calling; it just shows he lost the debate or was proven wrong in the conversation. Thank you for the kind words, though @Johann

Shalom!

Peter

1 Like
314

Scripture says Jesus is part of creation.

English Standard Version – Colossians 1:15

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all CREATION.”

Throughout the Christian Greek Scriptures aka New Testament, Jesus is repeatedly referred to as begotten.

New King James Version – John 1:18

“No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.”

Definition of begotten

": brought into existence by or as if by a parent"

(Source: Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary)

Debunked!

NeutralZone

________________

". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

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Joh 1:18 Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen Hashem [Ex 33:20]. It is Elohim the Ben Yachid [who shares the nature of Hashem, the Chochman Ben Elohim at his side, see very importantly Mishle 8:30; 30:4)], it is he, the one being in the kheyk (bosom) of HaAv, this one is Hashem’s definitive midrash (exegesis).

In one sentence

John 1:18 is the climax of a Moses-Wisdom revelation theme- the God whom no human being can see has made Himself definitively known through the uniquely divine Son/Logos, who possesses unparalleled intimacy with the Father and therefore is uniquely qualified to “exegete” Him.

Joh 1:18 No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father]. [Pro_8:30]

Joh 1:18 R12No one has ever seen God; R13the only God,N1 who is at the Father’s side,N2 R14he has made him known.

Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us, and we saw his glory, glory as of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Joh 1:14 So the Logos became flesh and tarried among us; we have seen his glory — glory such as an only son enjoys from his father — seen it to be full of grace and reality.

¶ The Word became flesh and lived [Lit. pitched his tent] among us. We gazed on his glory, the kind of glory that belongs to the Father’s unique Son, [The Gk. lacks Son] who is full of grace and truth.

NASB, NKJV “glory as of the only begotten from the Father”
NRSV “the glory as of a father’s only son”
TEV “The glory which he received as the Father’s only Son”
NJB “the glory that is his as the only Son of the Father”
This term “only” (monogençs) means “unique,” “one of a kind” (cf. Joh_3:16; Joh_3:18; 1Jn_4:9, see F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, pp. 24-25). The Vulgate translated it “only begotten” and, unfortunately, the older English translations followed this (cf. Luk_7:12; Luk_8:42; Luk_9:38; Heb_11:17). The focus is on singularity and uniqueness, not sexual generation.

Of the only begotten of the Father (μονογενοῦς παρὰ πατρὸς)
Rev., “from the Father.” The glory was like, corresponds in nature to, the glory of an only Son sent from a Father. It was the glory of one who partook of His divine Father’s essence; on whom the Father’s love was visibly lavished, and who represented the Father as His ambassador. The word μονογενής, only begotten (De Wette and Westcott, “only born”) is used in the New Testament of a human relationship (Luk_7:12; Luk_8:42; Luk_9:38). In the Septuagint it answers to darling, Hebrew, only one, in Psalms 21:20, A.V. Psa_22:20; and to desolate in Psalms 24:16, A.V. Psa_25:16. With the exception of the passages cited above, and Heb_11:17, it occurs in the New Testament only in the writings of John, and is used only of Christ.

With this word should be compared Paul’s πρωτότοκος, first born (Rom_8:29; Col_1:15, Col_1:18), which occurs but once in John (Rev_1:5), and in Heb_1:6; Heb_11:28; Heb_12:23. John’s word marks the relation to the Father as unique, stating the fact in itself. Paul’s word places the eternal Son in relation to the universe.

Paul’s word emphasizes His existence before created things; John’s His distinctness from created things. Μονογενής distinguishes between Christ as the only Son, and the many children (τέκνα) of God; and further, in that the only Son did not become (γενέσθαι) such by receiving power, by adoption, or by moral generation, but was (ἦν) such in the beginning with God.

The fact set forth does not belong to the sphere of His incarnation, but of His eternal being. The statement is anthropomorphic, and therefore cannot fully express the metaphysical relation.

Of the Father is properly rendered by Rev., “from the Father,” thus giving the force of παρά (see on from God, Jhn_1:6). The preposition does not express the idea of generation, which would be given by ἐκ or by the simple genitive, but of mission - sent from the Father, as John from God (see Jhn_6:46; Jhn_7:29; Jhn_16:27; Jhn_17:8). The correlative of this is Jhn_1:18, “who is in the bosom (εἰς τὸν κόλπον) of the Father;” literally, “into the bosom,” the preposition εἰς signifying who has gone into and is there; thus viewing the Son as having returned to the Father (but see on Jhn_1:18).

And…

Or “of the unique one.” Although this word is often translated “only begotten,” such a translation is misleading, since in English it appears to express a metaphysical relationship. The word in Greek was used of an only child (a son [Luke 7:12; 9:38] or a daughter [Luke 8:42]).

It was also used of something unique (only one of its kind) such as the mythological Phoenix (1 Clem. 25:2). From here it passes easily to a description of Isaac (Heb 11:17 and Josephus, Ant., 1.13.1 [1.222]) who was not Abraham’s only son, but was one-of-a-kind because he was the child of the promise.

Thus the word means “one-of-a-kind” and is reserved for Jesus in the Johannine literature of the NT. While all Christians are children of God, Jesus is God’s Son in a unique, one-of-a-kind sense. The word is used in this way in all its uses in the Gospel of John (1:14; 1:18; 3:16, and 3:18).

So @DavyP …

This solitary verse, in the Greek, does not support your claim that Messiah was a “created being.” In fact, the earliest and best-supported textual reading of John 1:18 is μονογενὴς θεός, not “Son.”

So nothing has been “debunked,” brother. The burden of proof remains squarely on you to demonstrate from the Greek and the Hebrew Scriptures that Messiah was a created being. Until you do that, you have departed from the historic orthodox teaching of the Church regarding the person and nature of Christ.

Shalom.

J.

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This word occurs about 9 x
Meaning

one and only, unique

only-begotten, only-born, Lk. 7:12; 8:42; 9:38; Heb. 11:17; only-begotten in respect of peculiar generation, unique, one and only Jn. 1:14, 18; 3:16, 18; 1Jn. 4:9*
LSJ dictionary
μονο-γενής, ές,
Epic dialect and Ionic dialect μουνο-, (γένος) the only member of a kin or kind: hence, generally, only, single, παῖς [NT+8th c.BC+]; of Hecate, [Refs 8th c.BC+]
__2 unique, of τὸ ὄν, [Refs 5th c.BC+]
__3 μ. αἷμα one and the same blood, uncertain reading in [Refs 5th c.BC+]
__4 Grammars, having one form for all genders, [Refs 2nd c.AD+]
__5 name of the foot ¯ ¯ ¯ ?~X, [Refs 7th c.AD+]
__II adverb -νῶς, φέρεται μ. ἐν ἑνὶ τόπῳ grows only in one place, [Refs]
__II.2 in a unique manner, [Refs 6th c.AD+]

the only begotten = an only begotten [Son]. As applied to Christ it Occurs only here, Jhn_1:18; Jhn_3:16, Jhn_3:18; 1Jn_4:9. But it is used of an earthly relationship in Luk_7:12; Luk_8:42; Luk_9:38. Heb_11:17. Septuagint for “only One”, Psa_25:16. See note there.

Blessings @DavyP

J.

317

You have now resorted to attacking the Bible, claiming scripture contradicts itself, because you refuse to be corrected by scripture. You are willing to resort to that so that you can continue to cling to the false trinity doctrine that showed up for the first time in the 4th century AD – 300 years AFTER the Bible was written by inspiration of Jehovah, and only after two pagan Roman emperors assisted the Catholic bishops who were vying for power within the Catholic Church.

But let me ask you this: If scripture contradicts itself, as you claim, why would the inspired word of the Abrahamic God say the following?

New American Standard Bible – 2 Timothy 3:16

“All Scripture is inspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness;”

Your insistence that Colossians 1:16–from a Trinitarian Bible translation–is correct when it says Jesus created everything is in line with your refusal to accept Colossians 1:15 which clearly says Jesus (the Son) is among all CREATION.

Berean Literal Bible – Colossians 1:15

“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all CREATION,”

A created being is not capable of creating. But that’s only one of the problems you cannot overcome. Here’s another one: According to Christendom’s Trinity, the Father, Son, and God’s holy spirit are supposed to all be immortal. An immortal person cannot die. Scripture says Jesus Christ died. This is confirmed at Colossians 1:18.

New American Standard Bible – Colossians 1:18

“He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the DEAD, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.”

NeutralZone

________________

". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

318

No, it doesn’t. Nowhere does it say this. You have been misled. Your argument relies on applying modern English dictionary definitions and literalistic English readings to ancient Greek biblical terms, ignoring their original linguistic and cultural contexts.

Colossians 1:15 (“Firstborn of all creation”)

Your claim: “Firstborn” (prōtotokos) means Jesus was the first thing created.

The Biblical refutation: As we have already discussed and you ignore, in ancient Hebrew and Greek culture, “firstborn” (prōtotokos) was a title of rank, preeminence, and inheritance rights, not a statement of birth order or creation sequence.

Biblical precedent:

In Psalm 89:27, God says of David:

“I will appoint him my firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth.”

David was actually the youngest (8th) son of Jesse, yet God gave him the title of “firstborn” because of his supreme rank.

In Genesis 41:51–52, Manasseh was born first, but in Jeremiah 31:9, God declares Ephraim to be His “firstborn” because Ephraim was given the chief inheritance.

The surrounding context (Colossians 1:16–17)? If Paul meant Jesus was created, the very next verses would contradict him:

“For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities–all things were created through him and for him. 17 And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”

Paul explicitly states Jesus created ALL things. If Jesus created all created things, He cannot be part of creation Himself. Furthermore, if Paul wanted to say Jesus was the “first-created,” he would have used the Greek word prōtoktistos (“first-created”), but he deliberately chose prōtotokos (“preeminent heir”).

Again, you claim that, while using Merriam-Webster’s modern English dictionary, “begotten” means “brought into existence,” so Jesus must have had a beginning.

Continued.

319

The Biblical refutation: Defining ancient Koine Greek theology using a 21st-century English dictionary is a fundamental translation error. The underlying Greek word in John 1:18 is Monogenēs (μονογενής).

Modern Greek lexicography (e.g., BDAG) demonstrates that Monogenēs does not derive from gennaō (“to beget/bring into existence”), but from monos (“only”) and genos (“kind/type”). It means “unique,” “one-of-a-kind,” or “specially beloved.”

Biblical precedent (Hebrews 11:17): Isaac is called Abraham’s monogenēs (“only begotten/unique son”).

Was Isaac Abraham’s first-born or only child brought into existence? No. Of course not. Ishmael was born years before Isaac (Genesis 16). Isaac was called monogenēs because he was the unique, covenantal son, not because he was the only one born.

And again, John 1:1:

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

Pretty plain here. The verb used for “was” (ēn) denotes continuous existence in eternity past.

John 1:3:

“Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made.”

If nothing was made without Him, Jesus Himself could not be a made/created being.

John 1:14: The Word became flesh—meaning the eternal God took on human nature, not that He was created from nothing.

Then you have “I Am.” In the Gospel of John, Jesus uses the phrase “I AM” (Greek: Ego Eimi, ἐγώ εἰμι) in two distinct ways: with a predicate (e.g., “I am the bread of life”) and absolutely (e.g., “Before Abraham was, I AM”). Both usage types, especially the absolute statements, directly link Him to God’s self-revealed divine name in the Old Testament, demonstrating His uncreated, eternal nature.

To understand why Jesus’s words were so explosive to His 1st-century Jewish audience, we have to look at two key Old Testament foundations: Exodus 3:14 (The Divine Name). When Moses asks God for His name at the burning bush, God responds:

“I AM WHO I AM… Say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’”

In the Septuagint (the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament), God’s phrase “I AM” is translated as ἐγώ εἰμι (Ego Eimi).

Isaiah’s Usage (Ani Hu): In Isaiah 40–55, God repeatedly identifies His absolute, uncreated sovereignty using the Hebrew phrase Ani Hu (“I am He”), which the Greek Septuagint also translates as Ego Eimi:

“So that you may know and believe me and understand that I am He [Ego Eimi]. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.” Isaiah 43:10

“I am He [Ego Eimi]; I am the first, and I am the last.” Isaiah 48:12

When a speaker uses Ego Eimi absolutely in a theological setting, they are claiming the unique identity of the God of Israel. The one who exists eternally without beginning or end.

Jesus uses Ego Eimi without any predicate attribute, directly taking on the Old Testament divine identity. John 8:58,

“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was born, I was.” That would merely imply pre-existence (that He was created before Abraham). Instead, He juxtaposes a temporal verb used for Abraham (genesthai, “to come into existence”) with an absolute present-tense verb for Himself (eimi, “to exist continuously”).

The Jewish leaders immediately picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy (Leviticus 24:16). They clearly understood He was not just claiming to be older than Abraham, but claiming to be the eternal God of Exodus 3:14.

“I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am [ego eimi], you will indeed die in your sins.” John 8:24

Jesus states that recognizing His identity as the Ego Eimi (the YHWH of Isaiah 43:10) is essential for salvation.

John 18:5–6

“They answered him, ‘Jesus of Nazareth.’ Jesus said to them, ‘I am he.’ Judas, who betrayed him, was standing with them. When Jesus said to them, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.”

When Jesus said, “I am he” [ego eimi], they drew back and fell to the ground.

In the Garden of Gethsemane, when the soldiers came to arrest Him, Jesus answered with Ego Eimi. The raw divine authority behind the name causes an entire detachment of armed soldiers to fall backward, demonstrating that He is submitting to arrest voluntarily, not out of weakness.

Then, of course, you have Jesus’s Statements: "I am the bread of life"John 6:35 God alone gave the heavenly manna in the wilderness (Exodus 16). Jesus is the ultimate source of spiritual life. “I am the light of the world” John 8:12 Psalm 27:1 declares, “The Lord is my light and my salvation.” “I am the door of the sheep"John 10:7 The sole provider of safety and access into God’s fold. “I am the good shepherd” John 10:11 Ezekiel 34:11 states God Himself will shepherd His people (“I myself will search for my sheep”). I am the resurrection and the life” John 11:25 Deuteronomy 32:39 reveals only God has power over life and death (“I give life and I take it away”). “I am the way, the truth, and the life” John 14:6 Psalm 86:11 and Psalm 119 identify God’s truth and path as ultimate. “I am the true vine” John 15:1. Israel was God’s vine (Psalm 80:8); Jesus is the true root and source of spiritual fruitfulness.

Again, NOWHERE in the Word does it say Jesus is a created being. NOWHERE. If Jesus were a created being, He would be subject to time. Saying “I AM” in John 8:58 claims existence outside of temporal creation. A created being has a point of origin where they became; Jesus claims eternal being. He would be guilty of blasphemy: Taking the divine name Ego Eimi from Exodus 3:14 and Isaiah 43:10 while remaining a mere creature would be the ultimate form of idolatry and self-exaltation.

John 1:3 notes that “Without Him nothing was made that has been made.” The “I AM” statements reinforce that Jesus is on the Creator side of the Creator/creature divide.

It is pretty clear.

You have been debunked. Again.

Peter

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That is not even worthy of a response. I would never in any way make that claim. You should know better. But then again, you do not understand scripture so, there is that. But I have already debunked you every time. Live, learn, grow.

Be blessed.

Peter

321

Don’t waste anyone’s time denying that you attacked the Bible. That’s what you did when you said the following:

In other words, you are basically saying that the Abrahamic God who inspired the writing of the Judeo-Christian Bible is contradicting himself.

Your behavior is a perfect example of what happens when people put man-made traditions ahead of scripture.

New Living Translation – Matthew 15:9

"Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’”

The “contradictions” you claim exist are the result of reading from a Bible that was translated by Trinitarians. Their routine is to manipulate scripture by deliberately inserting commas and capital letters at the wrong places in order to deceive the gullible and those, such as yourself, who refuse to be corrected by context. The context makes it clear that Jesus Christ is a created being. You refuse to accept that because of your pagan tendencies.

Even the King James Version (a Trinitarian Bible translation) makes it clear that Jesus Christ is a CREATURE aka a created being. Meanwhile you continue to deny that that’s what the Bible says.

King James Bible – Colossians 1:15

“Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every CREATURE:”

NeutralZone

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". . . be swift about hearing, slow about speaking, slow about wrath. . . . " (James 1:19-20)

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@NeutralZone

…and some here are saying I am “prideful”…

Proverbs 16:18
“Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.”

Proverbs 8:13
“The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.”

Proverbs 11:2
“When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.”

Proverbs 13:10
“Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.”

Proverbs 16:5
“Every one that is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD: though hand join in hand, he shall not be unpunished.”

Proverbs 21:4
“An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.”

Proverbs 29:23
“A man’s pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.”

Proverbs 6:16–19
“These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

Isaiah 2:11–12
“The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low.”

James 4:6
“But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.”

1 Peter 5:5
“Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.”

Luke 18:14
“I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.”

1 Corinthians 4:6–7
“…that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. For who maketh thee to differ from another? and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?”

1 Corinthians 8:1
“Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.”

Philippians 2:3–5
“Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus.”

Galatians 6:3
“For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.”

Romans 12:3
“For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.”

1 Timothy 3:6
“Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.”

1 Timothy 6:3–4
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words…”

2 Timothy 3:2
“For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy…”

Particularly relevant Greek distinctions

The New Testament uses several related words:

ὑπερήφανος (hyperēphanos) - proud, arrogant, one who exalts himself.
James 4:6: “God resisteth the proud” - ὁ θεὸς ὑπερηφάνοις ἀντιτάσσεται.

ὑπερηφανία (hyperēphania) - pride, arrogance, haughtiness.
Mark 7:22 lists it among the evil things proceeding from within a person.

φυσιόω (physioō) - literally “to puff up,” hence to become conceited or arrogant.
1 Corinthians 8:1: “Knowledge puffeth up.”

φυσίωσις (physiōsis) - conceit, puffing up, arrogance.
2 Corinthians 12:20 uses this noun.

μεγαλοφροσύνη (megalophrosynē) - high-mindedness, presumption.
Colossians 2:18 warns against being “vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.”

And one particularly powerful Pauline command is…

“For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.”
— Galatians 6:3

That verse is difficult to get around. Biblical humility is not merely saying, “I’m a sinner.” It is refusing to think more highly of oneself than Scripture warrants.

You are committing fallacies here, including straw-manning and subtle ad hominems. But more importantly, this is a reminder to me first, and to everyone else, that we can quote Scripture all day long and still be completely wrong if we are not rightly dividing and rightly handling the Word of YHWH.

These Scriptures are therefore a sobering reminder that quoting chapter and verse does not, by itself, make an argument sound. We must actually handle the text faithfully, honestly, and in context.

And one more thing, Pastor @PeterC is spot on in his exegesis of the Scriptures, so I would be very careful before attempting to dismiss or misrepresent what he is saying.

I’ve had enough. Christian social media is becoming a train wreck—and too many believers are being rewarded for behavior Scripture condemns. In this video, we look at what Romans 14, John 13, Ephesians 4, and James 1 say about how Christians should disagree, speak, and treat one another.

J.

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You really need better reading comprehension. Or perhaps it was my fault with the paragraph break. Read it again? I said, if what you are saying is true, then you would have to say, "This verse creates a fatal logical dilemma for your position. If Jehovah created the universe alone (“by Myself” / “who was with Me?”), but Colossians 1:16 and John 1:3 explicitly state that Jesus created all things, there are only two possibilities: Notice the: Perhaps I should put “Either”

Scripture contradicts itself (Isaiah says God was alone; Colossians says Jesus did it). (OR) Jesus is included in the identity of Jehovah (the one true God who created all things). Trinitarian theology harmonizes these texts seamlessly (Because there are no contradictions in God’s Word. There are misunderstandings, mistranslations, and differing points of view, but zero contradictions.

I don’t. Never did.

I already answered this one several times. You cannot comprehend it.

Seriously? “firstborn from the dead” refers to Jesus being the first person to be resurrected into a glorified, immortal body, conquering death forever, so that believers will follow in the same type of resurrection. It does not mean Jesus was created by God. But because I now understand you need better reading comprehension skills, let me put it this way.

It means Jesus opened the door by being the first to rise into eternal, glorified life.

Because He defeated death first, He holds supreme rank (“first place in everything”).

All who believe in Him will follow in that same resurrection.

It describes His victory over the grave, not His origin or creation.

Clear for ya?

Peter

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Can’t stick to Bible Scripture we see again and again. You sure got a lot of folks here fooled evidently.

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I NEVER said that Lord Jesus was CREATED, so I don’t know where you got that idea! You must be hearing voices or something!

Brethren in Christ Here at Crosswalk:
Is Johann’s kind of treatment what one can expect on this forum with his trying to put false ideas into my mouth when I never said them? God’s Word calls that bearing false witness.

Apparently, Johann’s Bible understanding doesn’t go deep enough to grasp that Lord Jesus Christ is GOD and only existed as a Spirit with The Father before He was born through Mary’s womb. The bad JW and SDA interpretation of Hebrews about the Only Begotten Son idea is only involving Jesus’ flesh birth through Mary, and NOT HIS ETERNAL STATUS AS GOD THE SON, which is a matter of His SPIRIT and not the flesh. JW especially believe instead that Jesus was created, and is literaly the Archangel Michael when He is not, as I NEVER said nor implied that Jesus Himself was created, but that He is Immanuel “God with us” per Matthew 1:23!