At some point the Supreme Being said - I’m going to create the Universe and include a lake of fire in it. Then I am going to create man. Then I am going to set certain requirements for man and if man doesn’t meet these requirements, I’m going to cast man into the lake of fire to be tormented for eternity. The end.
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I’m going to jump in here first, hopefully to bring peace to this chaos. The above statement does not reflect The Gospel in any way. It feels argumentative; an error stated to provoke a response. The statement is not worthy of serious consideration, in my opinion. @rstrats, If this is how you truly feel, you are starting your journey toward understanding completely in the wrong spot, as The Gospel points out.
KP
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KPuff,
Exactly what is inaccurate about it?
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I cannot find a single thing in that statement that is true.
KP
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So, you don’t believe He created the Universe?
A provocateur is a person who deliberately acts to provoke, incite, or stir up strong emotions, arguments, or controversies
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Everything. and altough I’m pretty sure this is going to be a waste of time, I’m still going to give you the truth.
God created all that there is was or ever will be. He created man to have domination over all of it. Meanwhile or sometime before, there was a war in heaven and Lucifer rebelled and was cast out of Heaven and Hell was created for him, and the angels that followed him. Matthew 25:41
The fact that God create man, talking moneys, and put us over all His creation, did not sit well with now Satan. So he caused the deception that gave him the authority over the earth. Gensis 3. Now the devil is known as “god of this World” (2 Corinthians 4:4) “Prince of the power of the air” (Ephesians 2:2) “The Wicked One” (Matthew 13:19) Satan, is now in total control and fills Man’s Heart with Evil continually.
Sadly, now, although never intended, if man follows the devil and refuses Jesus, they end up going to the same place. However, it was never God’s intent to, nor does He ever, send people to hell. We bring that on ourselves by not accepting the way out.
The way to avoid the lake of fire is simple, and open to all through faith in and the acceptence of, Jesus as Lord.
Peter
As a youth raised in the Lutheran church, this is the summation of what I was taught. It sounded cruel that God would make someone feel torment for eternity simply for not choosing him.
Since then I have found reason to think that this was an inaccurate presentation of Christianity.
There is biblical reason to doubt the eternal conscious torment of the lost. Holding the threat of torment over the heads of people can be a motivator, but the Christian should be more interested in what is true.
If God created the universe to give those he created the free will to choose, one would expect that creatures with free will will chose to do what they want and not what God wants. One would also expect the God would anticipate this and provide a way for some to be recovered.
The recovery of some who would resist the self-destructive path of doing what you want was first resisted by placing a curse on the earth so that getting food would be difficult. This proved inadequate.
Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
As a result, God made humans subject to disease, limited life expectancy, and made the environment much more hostile. This proved to be sufficient to motivate some to care for each other and even for some to be interested in God.
This way of looking at the creation model shows a harvest model where using free will to seek God has value. That those who do not seek God are not tormented forever might be seen with considering that the unsaved are said to perish. If the gift of God is eternal life, why would it be given to the unsaved. Revelation describes the “second death”. The Greek word “aion” is usually translated “eternal” actually means “age”.
As one digs into the word, one finds there is that which can be trusted. Those denominations and pastors that present Christianity more according to the traditions of men may be held accountable for their distortions and the bad effects those assertions have had on others.
Oh, come on KPuff, that response is beneath you. What does it have to do with my question?
timf,
re: “As a youth raised in the Lutheran church, this is the summation of what I was taught.”
That is what I was also taught in my Baptist upbringing.
re: “Since then I have found reason to think that this was an inaccurate presentation of Christianity. There is biblical reason to doubt the eternal conscious torment of the lost.”
That might be the only thing which might be incorrect in the OP depending on whose theological interpretation of scripture is correct.
Not Kpuff, my name is Peter, but thanks 
Peter
PeterC,
Sorry, apparently a senior moment took place.
So, what about my question?
BTW, what was the thanks for?
It’s actually Hell unground on earth and at first it also held Abraham’s bosom, where Believers went to wait on the Lord when they died on earth. But after Jesus came He set all the captives free in Abraham’s Bosom (aka Paradise). And now when we die we go to be with Jesus because His blood covers us. And the captives being set free there was a good thing for Hell because many people had been dying in their sins and await Judgement day in Hell. Hell is a temporary holding place for the condemned.
I think it’s a given that hell does exist beneath our feet due to the volcanic activity that is seriously increased in the past 10 years. You see, it’s been over 2000 years since Jesus was here now so many many more people have died and been sent to hell to await Judgment. So it’s filling up and I would suppose that Hell keeps expanding below us to make room for even more arrivals. So as a consequence of that, it’s causing increased volcanic activity worldwide.
But there’s no lake of fire below us, that one must be located someplace else because Revelation says this earth gets destroyed and there is a new heaven and new earth, and a lake of fire somewhere that never gets extinguished and since it can never go out, it can’t be on earth because earth is destroyed.
Edward,
I’m not sure why you quoted my comment and then argue that the lake of fire can’t be on earth when my comment didn’t say that it was.
Some Facts Concerning an Eternal Hell:
(1) God made Hell because of who he is - holy, holy, holy (Isa 6:3; Rev 4:8) - and thus is too pure to look upon sin (Hab 1:13).
(2) God is love (1 John 4:7-8) and while he spoke more concerning Heaven than he did Hell, in his holiness and honesty Jesus spoke about Hell (i.e. Gehenna) a considerable amount of times too - since he is the Word, Jesus is actually the author of every usage of Hell in the Bible (Matt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; 18:9; 23:15, 33; Mark 9:43, 45, 47; Luke 12:5; parallels to the same; Matt 7:21-23; 8:12; 13:42; 24:29-31, 45-51; 25:30-32, 41-46; Rev 2:11, etc.).
(3) God is the Judge and sends the unsaved to Hell (Matt 25:41; 2 Pet 2:4, 9).
(4) In another sense, people send themselves to Hell, as they willing sin against God (Rom 2:5; 3:23; 1 Cor 6:9).
(5) Hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matt 25:41), but Satan’s seed (Gen 3:15) will spend eternity there as well (Rev 20:14).
(6) Hell is a place where one can never stop sinning (Rom 8:7-8; Rev 21:8; 22:14-15). Since the sinners in Hell keep sinning there is perpetual punishment.
(7) Hell is a waterless place with no exit (Luke 16:24-26).
(8) Hell is a bottomless pit (Rev 20:1).
(9) Hell is a lake of fire into which the wicked will be cast alive forever (Rev 19:20; 20:15).
(10) Hell is a place of eternal torments (Luke 16:23).
(11) Hell is a place of everlasting punishment (Matt 25:46).
(12) Hell is a place of everlasting destruction from the presence of God (2 Thess 1:6-10).
(13) Hell is a place of being cut into pieces (Matt 24:51).
(14) Hell is a place where the worm dies not and the fire is not quenched (Mark 9:48).
(15) Hell is a place of outer darkness, of weeping, and gnashing of teeth (Matt 25:30).
(16) It’s not enough for God to take us out of Hell; he must remove Hell out of us; and thus he sent his only begotten Son to die for the sins of his people (Rom 5:8; Jude 1:23; John 1:29).
While many of the descriptions of Hell in Scripture may be meant to be interpreted figuratively, the reality these divine images point too are meant to be understood by us to be more - not less - than the word pictures can themselves depict to our finite minds. Hell is for real!
However, the doctrine of Hell is under attack by those not willing to submit to the authority of God’s Word and fear the existence of an eternal Hell. Their false doctrine is called “Annihilationism.” Ultimately, if these tormentors of Scripture remain unrepentant, they will be among the eternally tormented.
J.
When one begins to study Annihilationism, they will soon discover that there are different nuances to the doctrine. These may be discussed within five basic categories of which I will only give a brief snapshot view of below:
(1) Immediate Annihilationism View: It represents those that believe that upon death a person goes completely out of existence; there is no afterlife for anyone.
This heretical view has numerous problems. Among them: (1) it does away with the clear endless judgment of God which is spoken of in Scripture (Acts 17:31; 2 Cor 5:10; Rev 20:11-15); (2) if saints go out of existence this does away with the need of the new heavens and new earth (Isa 65:17; Rev 21:1); and (3) what purpose do the saint’s crowns serve, if they simply go out of existence? (1 Cor 9:24-25; 1 Thess 2:19; 2 Tim 4:8; 1 Pet 5:4; Rev 2:10), etc.
(2) Immediate Universalist View: It aserts everyone will live a life of eternal bliss.
This view is heretical as well. Its errors include: (1) the removal of the clear endless judgment of God which is spoken of in Scripture (Acts 17:31; 2 Cor 5:10; Rev 20:11-15); (2) it assumes that God rewards the wicked who hate him (Psa 10:3, 4, 13); and (3) it makes Jesus a liar (Matt 7:21-23; 10:28; John 3:7), etc.
(3) Postponed Universalism View: It maintains that at the resurrection everyone will be given eternal life.
This heretical view does away with: (1) the clear endless judgment of God which is spoken about in Scripture (Acts 17:31; 2 Cor 5:10; Rev 20:11-15); (2) the truth that the wrath of God remains upon the wicked (John 3:36); and (3) the “great chasm [that] has been fixed” between the righteous and the wicked (Luke 16:26); since the wicked can’t cross over a life of bliss for them is impossible, etc.
(4) Postponed Annihilationism View: it teaches that unbelievers will be judged and then put out of existence. This view is embraced by the majority of Annihilationists.
This heretical view: (1) makes nonsense of the endless judgment of God, as what is just about a judgment without a full payment for sins committed (Prov 11:21; Isa 13:11); (2) the Bible clearly teaches about degrees of punishment, but Annihilationism dismisses these (Matt 10:15; 11:21-24; 16:27; Luke 12:47-48; John 15:22; Heb 10:29; Rev 20:11-15; 22:12, etc.); and (3) sinners continue to sin even in Hell (Rom 8:7-8; Rev 21:8; 22:14-15), so Hell must consist of perpetual punishment, etc.
(5) Possible Annihilationism View: This error asserts that people have a second chance to accept or reject Christ as Lord and Savior.
This heretical view: (1) fails to understand that it is “appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment” (Heb 9:27); (2) salvation is not a mere chance, but a divine ordained gift (Eph 1:3-11; 2:8-9); and (3) the Bible speaks of eternal life and death, not a probation (Rom 6:23), etc. See “Is Purgatory Biblical?” below.
As opposed to the five heretical views above, the correct view of the afterlife is called, “Certain Eternal Existence,” which maintains that the elect go to Heaven forever and ever and the reprobate go to Hell forever and ever. “And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” (Matt 25:46).
J.
Oh that’s how it came across to me but a careful reading of your words and you are right Brother! Sorry.
I’m not sure that I’m seeing your point? Or was you just picking up where I left off and adding information?
Interesting. Well, not knowing the doctrinal about the Divine Love and Wisdom, be it in the Gospel or its explanations, and even explanations of the letter of the OT, it is difficult to have a clear picture of God in which one is to believe? But why limit oneself as to a few stories?
Already answered.
Peter
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