OT Gentile salvation

Theology
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I would like to have a discussion about OT Gentiles. It seems like the people immediately after leaving the garden understood something about sin and atonement because we see Able offering the fat, can’t have a fat offering without a sacrifice.
Then we read that people began to call on the name of the Lord, not sure what they is about.
When Abraham meets up with Melchizedek Abraham is not surprised to meet up with a priest. Not sure if this is something I was taught or purely my own thinking but it seems that the different tribes had their own priests.
Now at some point they started adding in worship of ‘new gods’. and eventually became established and known as Egyptians/Assyrians/Babylonians ect.
When Moses fled Egypt he went to Midian where Jethro was a priest, who apparently had some knowledge of the same God that Moses knew.
My understanding is God developed the Jewish nation to show the rest of the people how far they had strayed from proper worship and understanding of Him. Paul condemns everyone, no one is without excuse and also says that those who don’t know God are guided by their conscience.
Sorry, I know this is a loooon post.
Does guided by their conscience mean essentially if they followed that conscience they would be saved ( i know salvation is through Christ alone) but if all they know is what their heart is telling them…?

There is a verse in Peter that could suggest Jesus talked to all the souls who died previously and gave them opportunity to receive Him then.

If you made it this far thank you.

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I think, as this link seems to also, that Peter was saying Jesus went down to the demons and angels who came to Earth and married the women because they lusted after strange flesh, and Jesus was just down there telling them they are judged, why, and what their sentence is, something like that

But God knows the hearts of all and there were gentiles that knew of God, believed in him and lived as the conscience God gave them dictated, so without having Jesus to account for their sins God knows who would follow Jesus if they had the chance and therefore accepts those souls into Heaven when they die

I think, without any backing, that considering people who never heard of Jesus or God, (the stereotypical example of the native in Africa for instance) God knows the hearts of them all and if they never heard the Gospel he still knows who belongs to him.

I hope this helps to move the discussion along

1 Like
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I probably shouldn’t have added the verse from Peter, I don’t want that to become the focus.
My focus is salvation of the Gentiles before Abraham, before Moses, before Christ.
Again, I know all salvation is faith in Christ but how did the Gentiles know of Christ. I don’t believe every Gentile before Christ was born died in their sins but I can’t prove it.

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–but you can “prove it.” Jesus himself, spoke in terms of prophets and patriarchs who preceded him in terms of them having received their reward, of being righteous before God, and of being alive. Hebrews 11- lists many of them.

Enoch was ‘taken up’ just as Jesus was. Elijah was transported. Elisha performed miracles. Noah was considered righteous as was Job, and Samuel and even Samson and David-- despite having many flaws. All of these “before Christ” if you think in terms of Jesus being a one and only.

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I’m going to challenge your thinking a bit— lol… it’s how I’m wired. Doing so can ruffle feathers, so having said that- I hope you are true to your name and that you find it fun, to study.

Let’s start right there where you started… or even back a bit in our story. Abel and Cain bring “offerings” to the Lord, and it seems that the Lord likes Abel’s better. (Abel brought the best of his flock for the feast, Cain brought a veggie tray). @fantasticfaeryn – you might enjoy this discussion. -But you reference this as some sort of atonement. That’s an inference you are making, and it’s not at all a part of the story. The “atonement” for sin originates with the act of Adam and Eve, who disobeyed and for whom God provided a covering- for their sake, for their shame. The offerings that Abel and Cain brought say nothing of any need to atone… they were simply bringing something as a gift, hoping that the Lord would be pleased-- and all scripture really says is that the Lord liked what Abel brought better.

So Cain gets twisted up over being shown up by his brother. He becomes jealous and outraged and murderous… and for this, he is banished to the wilderness-- without going too far down the rabbit hole, Cain wanders off, finds a wife and has children… now think about this>>>

Let’s say that Cain feels really bad about having killed his brother. He’s been humbled and sent away from the Lord’s presence. How can he “atone” for his sin? Cain can’t help but think that what is pleasing to God was that offering that Abel had brought. So if Cain wants to “get right” with God-- what does he do? What does he teach those children he has-- in terms of how to please God?

And then in scripture, as you mention-- we see all of these tribes and nations and every single one of them have priests who offer sacrifices to God up to and including Moses and Aaron-- who made an image in the form of a bull, just like all the other nations— and they call this bull-- El. The all powerful one.

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Fair point, Cain and Abel may have been bringing a thanks/fellowship offering as that also involved the fat. But this isn’t really the focus of my question.
The offering proves there was some knowledge, some information given that wasn’t recorded.
To address what I think you want me to think about, since Cain went away, and since he stayed away I will take that to suggest he didn’t repent, I doubt he taught his children much about God.
I don’t see your point about Aaron making a golden calf.

My focus is to find the clues within scripture that ‘prove’ Gentiles were saved before Christ in the flesh.

Jonah told Ninevah to repent, not to become Jews, they repented, one could assume this included salvation for some but it isn’t explicitly stated, just that God relented from destroying them at that time.

I’m going to challenge your thinking a bit— lol… it’s how I’m wired. Doing so can ruffle feathers, so having said that- I hope you are true to your name and that you find it fun, to study.
You are presuming you are challenging me and thus coming across as condescending.

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I’ll leave you be with your “study” and your thoughts. Why ask a question, if you don’t desire feedback? --oops. I just did.

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I did agree you made a good point about Abel’s sacrifice. You seem to be the one with ruffled feathers.

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The point is simple-- they all got their ideas about God requiring sacrifices to please him from the same source… from Abel’s example. None of it has anything to do with being or becoming Jews. It’s non-sequitor.

So Aaron said to them, “Break off the gold earrings that are on the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me.”So all the people broke off the gold earrings that were on their ears and brought them to Aaron. He accepted the gold from them, fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molten calf. Then they said, “These are your gods O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”

When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it, and Aaron made a proclamation and said, “Tomorrow will be a feast to the LORD.” So they got up early on the next day and offered up burnt offerings and brought peace offerings, and the people sat down to eat and drink, and they rose up to play

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I agree. I stated that above. :slight_smile:

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Studyfun

I’d like to respond to some of your ideas concerning “OT Gentiles” coming to faith in Jesus The Messiah. I won’t try to touch on all the points you made, but rather posit a few general foundational ideas to consider. These ideas have been thoroughly considered and published by men far more brilliant than I. I think some of the same thoughts you have had were considered by Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD) when he wrote his famous work, “The City of God”. In that work, Augustine makes a strong case for God always having His people, His created human representatives testifying of Him in the earth, to the other humans of creation; God has always had His “City of God”. We know, in all of history, even those who are God’s are unworthy of His gift of salvation. Everyone of them is redeemed by the blood sacrifice of Jesus. Some looked forward to the saving act of their savior, and, like you and I, some look back in history at the same event. No one was brought into “the City of God” based on their works, their sacrifices, their gifts, their devotion, their lifestyle, their pedigree, etc. No one enters the Kingdom of God simply because they repeated some phrase, or performed some rite. Jesus said “No one comes to the Father but by me” The Law and The Prophets all testify of His work, all demonstrate, through word and deed, the one gate through all who enter The City of God must pass, the One shepherd who is the giver of life, the one bread that came down from heaven, the one rock from whom comes life giving water, one sea in which all are baptized, one Judge who judges in righteousness, one High priest, one King to whom we all give homage, one who is both Alpha and Omega, etc. All come by grace, through faith (taking God at His word), regardless of which side of the Cross you lived on. I think you will find that from among OT Gentiles, OT Jews, NT Gentiles, NT Jews God has called out His remnant. We testify of a savior named Jesus who was a historical human person, they testified of a savior who was a future and effective promise, a promise that could not be thwarted. Prophets, poets, and kings wrote about God’s expected servant who would save mankind from their sin. All the Jewish laws pointed to Him, all the spiritual poetry pointed to Him, all the prophets “thus says The Lord” pointed to Him. (See what Stephen says in Acts 7:52) (See what Jesus says in Matt 5:11-12, how the prophets were persecuted for Jesus’s sake) Consider how Phillip, speaking with the Ethiopian Eunuch, demonstrated The promised Christ from the OT scriptures (Acts 8:34&35). Consider how, on the road to Emmaus, Jesus speaking to Cleopas and his companions “… beginning at Moses and all the Prophets,” He was able to “expound to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself. Luke 24:27.
Hope this is edifying.
What do you think?
Wick Easterman

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I think what you are saying is regardless of what period of time one is in salvation is through the redeeming work of Christ.
Completely agree.

Thank you for your time.