I work in ministry and my boss consistently says the phrase about others that work with us that they “claim Christianity”. I completely understand we never know for sure about the true state of another’s salvation. Yet, I do not find the value of saying this or what good it brings. I asked her about it and her response was she says it about herself as well. I have not personally heard her say this about herself. Even if she does I personally do believe it is something to casually throw out. What are others thoughts?
First, welcome @TRUTH-seeking. Glad you are here. In ministry, leaders often feel a deep responsibility to guard the integrity of the organization and the faith of the community. However, there is a fine line between discernment, or evaluating actions, and cynicism, or doubting hearts.
When someone says others merely “claim Christianity,” they are stepping into a territory the Bible repeatedly warns against: judging the hidden motives of the heart.
1 Samuel 16:7 reminds us,
“But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have rejected him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.”
When a leader uses that phrase, they are acting as if they can see what only God sees. In James 4:12, it says,
“There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who can save and destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?”
If you are looking for a way to process or gently address this with your boss, a few scriptural principles can help guide a constructive, graceful conversation. You can shift the focus to “Fruit.”
“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." Matthew 7:16-20
Jesus didn’t tell us to interrogate people’s verbal claims; He told us to look at their lives over time. Instead of guessing whether someone is “just claiming” faith, the biblical standard is to look at the evidence of the Holy Spirit.
A response to the boss could gently redirect the conversation to observable actions. For example: “Instead of focusing on what they claim, let’s look at the fruit they are producing in their role. How can we support them in growing that fruit?”
Your boss, or any Spiritual Leader, should lead with charity and hope.
“Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.” 1 Corinthians 13:7
Love is supposed to be the defining characteristic of Christian ministry. Paul writes that love " always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." Assuming the worst about a coworker’s faith is the exact opposite of “always trusting.”
Remind your boss of the baseline posture of love. “As a ministry team, shouldn’t our default setting be to believe the best about our brothers and sisters until they show us otherwise?”
If a coworker is genuinely struggling, the leader’s job is to invest in them, not label them. You might suggest: “If there’s a specific area where you feel their walk doesn’t align with our mission, is there a way we can come alongside them to disciple and support them?”
There is a place for noticing when someone’s life doesn’t match their profession of faith, such as in Titus 1:16.
“They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.”
But when a phrase like “claims Christianity” becomes a regular habit, it usually points to a cultural problem of suspicion rather than a healthy process of accountability. It takes a lot of wisdom to navigate leadership dynamics like this, especially when the very place meant to cultivate grace starts feeling unsafe or overly critical.
Peter
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The phrase “they claim Christianity” sounds condescending to me.
Even on Christian talk bords it come out in discussion, but only really to the ones who know better. (Not saying myself necessarily, what do I know? I only what my experience has been) but some who have walked the Lords path longer than others such as new believers, one can discern the depth of their Christianity by the questions they ask. Some have walked the path longer than others. Sometimes I get set straight where I was wrong by someone who has walked the path even longer than me so knew enough to set me straight. This is where it becomes an art, lol. Sometimes people agree 90% the same things so those truths become evident, and the two disgree on a few points.
Now society has programmed people to ‘take offense’ even when there was no intent to insult. When someone says you are wrong, many people get offended and react with a poor choice of words where they should always be searching for wisdom and searching it out which means they allow themselves to recieve the fact that maybe they were wrong? Then we grow. But those prone to reacting poorly remain unteachable? So allowance for those situations to be able to agree to disagree and remain in fruitful discussion, instead of being sidetracked by bickering. Scripture tells us all, unite, unify. We are all one in spirit.
So I’m learning the art of agreeing to disagree. In my (beginning) leanings to this art I started noticing that certain people will over react about certain things, possibly with certain topics or phrasing of words, so those are good try and stay away from until the other is more mature.
On other boards I have certain Prideful types be unable to agree to disagree on anything and so they’ll demand an admission that they are right. I used to fall for that, lol. I’m getting better, praise the Lord.
We are to take someone at his word unless his actions seem to deny it;
1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
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Who knows the exact numbers of denominations claiming to be ‘Christian’?
AND most of them teaching things DIFFERENTLY than Christ?
It is God’s spirit that motivates a person to be alert to such differences.
These are matters of personal conscience, liberty, or interpretation on complex issues that have no bearing on salvation or the weekly function of the church. The three Pillars.
While Scripture warns against the sin of division and legalism, we must also recognize that there are times when separation becomes necessary. We are called to prioritize unity in essentials, allowing grace and liberty in non-essentials, such as eschatological timelines, worship styles, or political alignments. As Paul emphasizes in Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8, breaking fellowship over secondary issues damages our collective witness. True wisdom lies in discerning the difference between matters of conscience where we can agree to disagree, and those rare, critical instances where division becomes an unavoidable necessity. Things like these:
End Times Timelines (Eschatology): Exact timelines of the rapture, the millennium, or how the book of Revelation unfolds.
Preferences in Worship Style: High-church liturgy vs. modern contemporary worship; specific musical instruments; hymns vs. modern songs.
Christian Liberty & Lifestyle: Diet decisions, what version of the Bible you prefer to read, how you dress, or whether Christians should participate in certain cultural activities (see Romans 14).
Political Alignments: Differing views on governance, policy strategy, or secular political parties.
Why we must not divide here: The Apostle Paul devoted extensive portions of his letters (especially Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8) to telling believers not to break fellowship over matters like food laws or special days. When we split churches over musical tastes, political opinions, or minor timeline interpretations, we damage the visible witness of the body of Christ over things God left room for liberty on.
Then, some doctrines do not affect whether a person is saved, but they do affect how a local church functions on a practical, day-to-day basis. Believers on different sides of these issues still recognize each other as true brothers and sisters in Christ, but they usually worship in different local congregations or denominations for the sake of order and conscience. Things like these:
The Mode and Subjects of Baptism: Credobaptism (believer’s baptism by immersion) vs. Paedobaptism (infant baptism/covenant baptism).
Church Governance: How a church is run. Example, led by local elders, ruled by a democratic congregation, or governed by a hierarchy of bishops/prophets, or the Pastor.
The Miraculous Gifts: Continuationism (believing gifts like prophecy and tongues are active today) vs. Cessationism (believing those specific gifts ceased after the apostolic age).
It is incredibly difficult to practically run a single local church service if the leadership cannot agree on who should be baptized or how the service should be conducted. Dividing into different denominations over these points allows people to live out their convictions fully without constant, gridlocking arguments inside the local body.
Sadly, then, you have the Third Pillar. Necessary division. These are the non-negotiable, foundational truths of the Christian faith. If you change or remove any of these doctrines, the gospel falls apart, and it ceases to be biblical Christianity. If a group or teacher rejects these, division is necessary to protect the truth of the gospel.
The Nature of God (The Trinity): God exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
The Deity and Humanity of Christ: Jesus is fully God and fully man. He was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, and rose bodily from the dead.
The Authority of Scripture: The Bible is the inspired, authoritative Word of God.
Salvation by Grace Alone Through Faith Alone: We are saved from sin solely by Christ’s finished work on the cross, not by our own good works or rituals.
Why we divide here seems obvious. If a church denies the deity of Christ or teaches that you must earn your salvation through works, they are preaching what the Apostle Paul called “a different gospel” (Galatians 1:6-9). Unity cannot exist where the baseline identity of Jesus and salvation is compromised.
Peter
And I thought you were near the Truth- but you’ve fallen for Churchianity’s 3 Gods, so you don’t know Him at ALL.
Its not difficult to see that churches have gone astray. They dont preach the whole counsel of God in my opinion
Paul also said to avoid Christians who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine we learn from Jesus and the apostles
Then what are you doing here @anon42711693 if you cannot even agree with PeterC? This includes @TheQuestion.
Wandering stars…
J.
.Im seeking like-minded fellowship. But im not the topic of discussion. Your statement about picking any church that makes you feel good is the topic
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- Elijah thought he was alone
When Elijah believed he was the only faithful servant left, God corrected him:
“Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal…” (1 Kings 19:18)
Elijah’s perception was that faithful believers were gone, but God had preserved a remnant.
- The righteous often lament spiritual decline
David observed widespread corruption:
“Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men.” (Psalm 12:1)
This is perhaps the closest biblical example to someone lamenting the apparent lack of faithful people.
- Micah’s complaint about the lack of godly people
“The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men…” (Micah 7:2)
Micah was expressing grief over widespread spiritual decay among God’s people.
- Paul’s warning about a shortage of sound teaching
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears.” (2 Timothy 4:3)
Paul foretold a time when sound doctrine would become increasingly rare because people would prefer teachers who tell them what they want to hear.
- Amos foretold a famine of God’s Word
“Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD.” (Amos 8:11-12)
This describes a scarcity of faithful proclamation of God’s truth.
- Jesus taught that true disciples would be relatively few
“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.” (Matthew 7:14)
This principle can extend to faithful churches and faithful teachers.
- Yet believers should not forsake gathering together
Even when churches are imperfect:
“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is…” (Hebrews 10:25)
The New Testament assumes Christians will gather with other believers rather than remain isolated.
- Christ walks among His churches
Despite the many problems in the churches of Asia Minor, Christ still addressed them as His churches (Revelation 2–3). None were perfect, yet He called for repentance and faithfulness rather than abandonment.
A balanced biblical perspective…
Scripture recognizes that there are times when faithful churches and teachers may seem scarce (Psalm 12:1; Micah 7:2; 2 Timothy 4:3). However, it also warns against assuming that no faithful believers remain (1 Kings 19:18). God’s people are encouraged to seek sound doctrine, test everything by Scripture (Acts 17:11), and continue in fellowship with believers (Hebrews 10:24–25).
A helpful principle is found in Christ’s promise:
“I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18)
No matter how discouraging the spiritual landscape may appear, Christ always preserves a faithful remnant and continues to build His church.
What is your excuse @anon42711693?
J.
I liked what you said about the prophets but I dissagree on your interpretation of not forsaking the assembly. Paul said to avoid those who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the new testament doctrine. But you are basically contradicting Paul. Also, I’ve been kicked out of online assembly many times so who is actually forsaking the assembly? Is it me or those who cast me out? Its them because their ears didnt like what i had to say. They refused to hear the truth in my opinion. They forsake the assembly
What truth is that you bring @anon42711693?
"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple." (KJV)
The Context
Paul is concluding his letter to the Roman believers. After greeting many faithful saints (Romans 16:1–16), he suddenly warns the church about a certain class of people who threaten the unity and purity of the congregation.
The key phrase is:
“contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned”
The problem is not division in the abstract. The issue is people who introduce teachings, practices, or influences that oppose apostolic doctrine.
Paul does not say:
“Avoid everyone who disagrees with church leadership.”
Nor does he say:
“Avoid anyone who raises concerns.”
Rather, he identifies those who are causing divisions by departing from apostolic teaching.
Who were these people?
While Paul does not name them specifically in Romans, his letters repeatedly warn against similar groups:
False teachers
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ…” (1 Timothy 6:3–5)
Judaizers
Those who sought to place believers back under aspects of the Mosaic Law as a requirement for justification or spiritual standing.
See:
Galatians 1:6–9
Galatians 5:1–12
Philippians 3:2
Deceivers and wolves
Paul warned the Ephesian elders:
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." (Acts 20:29–30)
Act 20:28 R12Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all R13the flock, in which R14the Holy Spirit has made you R15overseers, R16to care for R17the church of God,N1 which he R18obtained R19with his own blood.N2
Act 20:29 I R18know that after my departure R20fierce wolves will come in among you, R21not sparing the flock;
Act 20:30 and R22from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore R23be alert, remembering that R24for three years I did not cease night or day R25to admonish every one R26with tears.
Notice that these men sought followers for themselves.
Those promoting speculative doctrines
“Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions…” (1 Timothy 1:4)
What does “cause divisions” mean?
The Greek word for “divisions” is διχοστασία (dichostasia), meaning dissension, discord, or standing apart in opposing factions.
Paul’s concern is not merely that a disagreement exists. The New Testament records many disagreements among believers:
Paul opposed Peter publicly (Galatians 2:11–14).
The Jerusalem Council debated vigorously (Acts 15).
Believers were commanded to test teachings (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
The division condemned in Romans 16 is division produced by teaching contrary to apostolic truth, not division caused by defending apostolic truth.
An important distinction
Throughout church history, Romans 16:17 has sometimes been used against reformers, whistleblowers, and those exposing error.
Yet Scripture often shows the opposite:
Martin Luther was accused of causing division.
The prophets were accused of troubling Israel.
Elijah was called “he that troubleth Israel” (1 Kings 18:17).
But the real question is:
Who departed from God’s truth?
Biblically, the divider is not necessarily the person exposing error. The divider is the one introducing or defending doctrine contrary to the teaching of Christ and His apostles.
Paul’s test
A useful summary is:
Is the teaching consistent with the doctrine handed down by Christ and the apostles?
Does it exalt Christ or draw disciples after men?
Does it produce godliness and obedience to the truth?
Is it being promoted through “good words and fair speeches” that deceive the unsuspecting?
If a person is causing division because they are introducing doctrine contrary to Scripture, Paul says to avoid them.
If a person is contending for apostolic truth against error, that falls under a different command:
“Earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.” (Jude 3)
The New Testament consistently prioritizes unity in the truth, not unity at the expense of the truth. Ephesians 4:3–15 holds both together: preserving the unity of the Spirit while growing in sound doctrine and refusing to be carried about by every wind of teaching.
Now you know the context, which “doctrines” do you want to inject to this forum?
J.
I said what i needed to say with only a small paragraph but you write a book. Let me try to address your questions. You use much speculation here. Paul said to avoid those who cause offense and divisions contrary to the new testament doctrine. Its not just judaizers but anyone who contradicts the Bible. And like I said, I was the one cast out not them so its they who forsook me, not the other way around.
As far as the things i said that they dissagred with goes, I said that divisions and incessant theological division and debate was wrong. I said we should just all agree with the new testament commandments and help others to do the same. I said denominations were wrong and should be avoided. We should agree on commandments instead because thats the only hope for unity. Is that a crime? Is that contrary to sound doctrine? I also said that Christians shouldn’t be rich but should give their money away to poor church’s and charities. After all God is our supplier so why do they horde money?
I said church’s have gone astray. I said politicians lead people astray by teaching them to complain, worry, argue, and boast in economic matters. This is evil and I can prove it with scripture. God is our supplier so any complaints, arguments, boasting, or worry dishonors and disobeys him. Those are the type of things I was hated for.
It was my opinion that people should let go of denominations and use our online assembly to teach the new testament commandments. Thats the reason to assemble in the first place. Thats the very heart of not forsaking the assembly. But they wasted their time following and arguing for Catholicism, EO, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Baptist, MJ, Lutheran, WOF, and just about any other denominations you can think of. I was evil to them because I rejected that mess and embraced unity by following the commandments only.
Its my opinion that the only thing that matters is the commandments. Sure we must agree on certaint things like Jesus being the Christ but things like catholicism are unnecessary and only causes divisions and takes our focus off of the commandments. Paul urged the church to speak the same thing and be united in heart and mind. But these denominations have created a messy and tangled web of contentions and divisions. Just give me the commandments please.
Ecclesiastes 12:**12 **Be warned, my son, of anything in addition to them.
Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.
**13 **Now all has been heard;
here is the conclusion of the matter:
Fear God and keep his commandments,
for this is the duty of all mankind.
**14 **For God will bring every deed into judgment,
including every hidden thing,
whether it is good or evil.
I feel compelled to.
I thought people learning about Christ and God where here…
Learning Jesus and his apostles commandments is how we learn about God. John said he who doesn’t love doesn’t know God who is love. The commandments teach us how to love. The whole law is hung on the commandments to love.
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