The true doctrine of baptism

Theology
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How great was my surprise when I learned that almost all theologians believe that Romans 6 is about water baptism, I have always understood it as baptism with the Holy Spirit, and there are many reasons for this.

The main reason for this teaching is not even the place, but the word combination:

" Romans 6:3 KJV

[3] Do you not know that all of us who were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? "

That is, theologians simply saw that here Paul writes instead of “baptized into the body of Christ,” simply “baptized into Christ,” and they built the idea that Paul meant water baptism, that is, in their eyes it looks like this:

  1. To be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit

  2. To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ

  3. To be baptized into Christ.

That is, theologians believe that this is a shortening of the same water baptism. This is not all, it continues to build the doctrine that water baptism saves from the power of sin (Rom. 6:12), but not from hell as such.

Now, on the basis of Scripture, I will try to convince you that water baptism is a sacrament that does not save us either from hell or from the power of sin.

Carefully read from chapter 4 of the Epistle to the Romans to chapter 7, judge these places:

Romans 4:24-25 KJV

[24] but also for us, to whom it will be credited (in righteousness), if we believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead; [25] Who was delivered for our sins and was raised for our justification.

Read, the Scriptures clearly say that Christ was not resurrected to free us from some power of sin through water baptism, as in chapter 6 His resurrection is the center of the teaching:

"Romans 6:4 KJV

[4] Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death, that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

Yes, it is not about our resurrection with Him as such, but about our way of life coinciding with His resurrection, but about that a little later.

Some say: “and in the sight of God all these things come at once,” but so it is in the sight of God and in fact so, if you believe the Scriptures.

Romans 7:4 KJV

[4] Therefore, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might live for another, for him who was raised from the dead, that we might bear fruit for God

Here is the key problem. Theologians, having read “baptized into Christ” (Rom. 6:3), simply agreed that Paul was talking about baptism in the name of Christ, but simply abbreviated. But when we read in the context of the entire Epistle, this idea simply disappears. Since we are saved by the body of Christ from the law, that is, from the power of sin, that is, from death, because the law is for mortals (1 Timothy 1:8-9).

And what about 1 Peter 3:21?

1 Peter 3:21 KJV

[21] Baptism, like this, now saves us (not by getting rid of the dirt of the body, but by the answer of a good conscience before God) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

That is, we have everything like this: "the type of baptism, “not the acceptance of the soul, but the promise to God of a good conscience” ha-ha-ha, what a humorist Peter we have! “Not the acceptance of the soul, but the promise to God of a good conscience”. No, it is not about what kind of water baptism he is not talking about. Read carefully the type, and what Peter wants to prove to us through it:

20] who were once disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water.

I will explain on my fingers:

“God made a flood - as a judgment, but a few people were saved - that is, the family of Noah, WE ARE THE TYPE OF THE FAMILY OF NOAH, THAT IS WE WILL BE SAVED FROM JUDGMENT. How? Christ died for our sins, and rose again, that we might be saved from judgment by his resurrection, having been baptized into his body, and shall be saved by it (Romans 7:4)”

And Peter says that “not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,” that is, our sinful flesh is not going anywhere, we will not become holy, “but the promise of a good conscience toward God” for a holy life, in gratitude for the redemption from death, the power of sin, the Judgment, and the law

So, is baptism not obligatory? No, no, no, and again no! Baptism is obligatory just as much as the breaking of bread is obligatory, but both the breaking of bread and baptism are sacraments, and we have no reason to think that they cover anything more than some imagine. Yes, there was something in Corinth that people suffered physically because of the wrong reception of the bread and the cup of wine (1 Corinthians 11:30), but that is another matter. First of all, baptism is a commandment of Christ, and a physical indicator of spiritual salvation and marriage to Christ, as a symbol of the fact that a person has shown people that he now belongs to Jesus.

Finally, a key reference that tells the truth about the essence of baptism in Christ:

"Colossians 2:11-13 KJV

[11] In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision that is not which is done by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; [12] having been buried with him in baptism, in which also ye were raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses.

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Orthodox Christianity…
What is baptism?
Simply put, baptism is our death, burial and resurrection in union with Jesus Christ. It is a rite of passage, given by Christ to the Church as an entrance into the Kingdom of God and eternal life.
The apostle Paul describes the promise of God in this mystery as most Orthodox call it, most succinctly when he writes, “Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so, we also should walk in newness of life” (Rom 6:4). To baptize (Gr. Baptizo) literally means “to immerse, to put into” Historically, Orthodox Church has baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. (Matt 28:19).
In the OT, baptism is pictured by the passage of God’s people with Moses through the Red Sea (1 Co 10:1,2). John the Baptist, the last prophet of the OT, baptised in water for repentance (Mk 1:4, Acts 19:4). Jesus received John’s baptism, thereby transforming the water and baptism itself. In the NT, baptism is the means by which we enter the Kingdom of God (Jn 3:5) are joined to Christ (Rom 6:3) and are granted the remission of our sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38).
What results from Baptism..

  1. A first and second dying
    Our first dying with Christ in baptism was our death with Him on the Cross. In the fourth century, St. Cyril of Jerusalem instructed his new converts. “You were led by the hand to the holy pool of divine baptism…and each of you was asked if he believed in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. And you made that saying confession, you descended into the water and came up again three times. In the very same moment, you died and were born”.
    The second death of baptism is continual, dying to sin daily as we walk in newness of life. St. Paul writes to the Colossians concerning baptism (Col 2:12), and concludes by saying, “Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.”
  2. The resurrection of righteousness
    This is our life in Christ, our new birth and enetrance into God’s kingdom, our newness of life (Rom 6:4, Jn 3:3). It is our being joined to Christ in His glorified humanity and indwelt by God himself (Jn 14:23). Our relationship with God is not something static, a legal fiction given to us by a Divine Judge. Rather, this is a dynamic and real life in Christ, holding the promise of everlasting life. Our resurrection to new life now forms a prelude to the resurrection of our body at Christ’s second coming.
  3. An intimate and continual communion with God
    We are raised to new life for a purpose: union and communion with God. In this sense, baptism is the beginning of eternal life. For this reason, Peter writes that baptism now saves us (1 Pt 3:21), for it is not mere the removal of dirt from our bodies but provides us with a good conscience toward God.
    Because of these promises, the priest prays for the newly baptized, thanking God, "who has given us, unworthy though we be, blessed purification through holy water, and divine sanctification through life-giving chrismation and who now also have been pleased to bring new life to Your sercant newly illuminated by water and the Spirit, and granted remission of sin, voluntary and involuntary.
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FYI - the New Testament actually lists 7 different baptisms. In Hebrews 6, the author lists “instructions about baptisms” (PLURAL) as one of the foundational doctrines.

1 - John’s baptism (in water, no longer effective) Matt 3, Acts 19
2 - regular Christian baptism (in water) Matt 28, Mk 16
3 - Baptism in/with/by the Holy Spirit (no water) Acts 2
4 - baptism of suffering (no water) Mk 10
5 - baptism in fire (no water) Matt 3, Lk 3
6 - baptism into the body of believers (no water) 1 Cor 12
7 - baptism for the dead (we really have no idea what this one entailed) 1 Cor 15

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I am a Baptist, and for some reason our doctrines say that we die with Jesus in water baptism, and I do not agree with this, and I believe that death with Jesus is the baptism of the Holy Spirit

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I see @Stef_Mark…
There is a sense in which our true death with Christ is experienced through the work of the Holy Spirit, who unites us to His death and resurrection. Baptism is the outward sign, but it is the Spirit that brings the inner transformation, making us one with Christ in His death and new life.

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The word “baptism” is a transliteration of the Greek word baptizo. The English word immersion is a good translation as baptizo is used of washing dishes and sinking ships.Jewish tradition made use of water immersion and can be seen with John the baptist and with the admonition of Peter to the Jewish believers (Acts 2:38).

This requirement was not placed on gentile believers at the council of Acts 15. Also Paul (the Apostle to the gentiles) describes only one baptism (immersion by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ).

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In the New Testament, baptism is both a physical immersion in water and, more importantly, a spiritual immersion by the Holy Spirit into the Body of Christ. For Gentile believers, Acts 15 shows that the Council did not impose all Jewish ritual requirements, but the one baptism into Christ by the Spirit remains essential for entry into the life of the Church, uniting all believers regardless of background.

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… unless one is baptizing couches. I doubt one would immerse a couch, right?

When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing (Gk: baptismos) of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.
**Mark 7:4 **
At times, the word just means washing of some sort.

(smile)
KP

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I think the best modern English analogy is the word “bathe”. If we use the strictest etymological sense of the word “bathe” it means to take a bath. That is to immerse or submerge one’s body in water for the purpose of cleaning oneself. But nobody is going to bat an eye that most of us bathe not by taking a bath, but by showering. “Did you bathe today?” “Yes I took a shower” And that’s so totally mundane and normal that nobody is even going to think about it.

This is, perhaps, a good lesson for us to learn that when we study words, etymology is important–but just as (or even more) important is how words are used by the people who speak them. If “baptism” can only ever strictly and woodenly mean “immerse”, then the passage in Mark is nonsense; but people used language like we do. Words can have broader ranges of meaning than their most narrow etymological sense would say. Just like our English word “bathe”.

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Yes! this!.

Good to keep in mind as we allow The Holy Spirit, through the Holy Scriptures to unify and conform us into the Image of Jesus.
KP

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The noted theologian J. Vernon McGee stated that baptism is all about immersion, or being immersed something vital. There are seven connotations of the biblically used Greek word baptizo. For the first 48 years of my life, I read John 3 to literally mean water baptism, even though the Holy Spirit was urging me to understand differently what the Savior Jesus was saying. Then in the year 2000, my eyes and heart were opened and I saw what the Holy Spirit was wanting me to see. The “water” in John 3:5 was meant by Jesus to mean the water of birth, since all human beings are born after being baptized, or immersed, in the placental water inside the mother. So, Jesus was speaking purely of being immersed in the Holy Spirit by speaking of being born again. It was all so clear, after 48 years of cloudy human interpretation. Another interesting bit of history is what I was taught as a child by my dear mother, who believed in Church of Christ doctrine. I had never heard of the power of grace through faith in my 16 years of attending the Church of Christ. Grace was a word that was not uttered by the preacher, only repentance, confession, and baptism were the essentials of salvation. I had also heard nothing from the preachers about the power of the Holy Spirit. My niece was also brought-up in the Church of Christ and was taught the same things that I was taught by my mother about baptism and believed that you did not have a hope of heaven without water baptism. Now living in Arkansas, my niece believes in the power of Grace, as taught by Paul in Ephesians, for salvation, but the Church of Christ still clings to the doctrine that water baptism is necessary for salvation, even in the face of Ephesians 2. I believe that baptism is only an outward expression of an inward faith and lets the people around you know that you have been baptized by the Holy Spirit. Yet, by being baptized with water does not mean that you believe and have faith and have been baptized, or immersed,in the Holy Spirit. I also believe that the Savior confirmed the baptism of the Holy Spirit as the essential immersion process in the Great Commission, “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature. He that believes and is baptized (or immersed) shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned.” Water is not mentioned in this commission, but immersion and belief are mentioned. God only knows if a person truly believes in the Gospel of Christ, and if a person claims to have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with having faith in Jesus, God has said that he, or she, is damned. A good question is whether Peter, James, and John baptized those 2,000 new Christians in water on the day of Pentecost, or if those converted souls were immersed in the Holy Spirit after they believed what Peter told them and repented.

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The John 3 passage about washing may not have to do with baptism. Nicodemus was chastised for not understanding the reference to the preparation of those of Israel for entrance into the promised earthly kingdom for Israel.

Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.
Eze 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

The immersion into water seems to be only for Israel. The immersion by the Holy Spirit of us into the body of Christ seems to be the only “baptism” for gentile believers in the gospel of grace.

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Rebirth into the kingdom of God through the Holy Spirit of God is the essence of John 3:5 and is heralded by John’s proclamation that the Messiah, the lamb of God, would come after his baptizing unto repentance, or immersing with water, with Jesus baptizing with fire or the Holy Spirit. Most of the Jews who came to John to be baptized unto repentance hadn’t realized that they had already been baptized by water at birth, and subsequently learned about the baptism of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost or afterwards. Acts 19:1-6 tends to point out this historical fact. Baptism by water was a tradition as a faith evincing practice after Pentecost. Perhaps some of the 2,000 saved on Pentecost were baptized by water AFTER they had been immersed or baptized by the Holy Spirit unto salvation. They didn’t have to be baptized by water to be saved by grace through faith in Christ’s redeeming cleansing blood. Those who believe that the work of water baptism is essential for salvation are negating Ephesians 2

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Baptism is both water and Spirit, united as a single sacrament.
Water baptism is not merely symbolic; it is a visible sign of the inward work of the Holy Spirit.
Salvation is by grace through faith, and the Holy Spirit effects the true rebirth of the believer.
Water alone does not save; it is the Spirit who transforms and unites us to Christ.
The apostles baptized believers in water, yet Scripture emphasizes that the Spirit’s work is essential for regeneration.
Faith, repentance, and the reception of the Spirit are inseparable from the sacrament.

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I do not totally agree with you on this bit of conjecture. When you speak of the Apostles, you must regard Paul as a servant of God, taught totally by Jesus and the Holy Spirit about theology and doctrine, and the original twelve Peter, James, and John, Matthew, etc. taught by the Jesus but not understanding what the Savior said until after he had ascended into heaven. The Apostles followed tradition of John the Baptist and baptized by water until they understood about the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Salvation as taught by Paul was not fully understood by most of the other Apostles, as evidenced by the example of Cornelius and Peter, and his confrontation with Paul about salvation and the gentiles. This is why Peter said in 2 Peter 3:15-16, that Paul was in some things hard to understand, but very correct nonetheless. Peter and the other Apostles cut their teeth on water baptism, which is a mortal work done by man. And according to Paul in Ephesians 2, salvation is NOT about works, lest any man should boast. So, baptism by water is superfluous to salvation and is totally a voluntary nonessential act done as a mortal expression of outward faith in the power of salvation. I believe that Jesus’ great commission only applied to an immersion of a converted sinner by the Holy Spirit following that sinner’s repentance and a pure faith in the cleansing blood of Jesus Christ. Water baptism is in no way sacramental, but is only a mortal outward expression of an inward faith, and a Christian can become sanctified and get to heaven without being baptized in water.

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That’s an interesting perspective..I’m gonna take a look into it…

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Listen closely to the Holy Spirit for information and knowledge not learned through mortal understanding. Let the Holy Spirit guide you into an understanding of the principles of the doctrine of Christ. He is the master teacher!

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I rejoice with you, brother, that you walk closely with Christ Jesus, for the Scripture says, “Draw near to God and He will draw near to you” (James 4:8). You hear the still small voice of the Ruach ha-Qodesh, as Elijah did when “a gentle whisper” came to him (1 Kings 19:12). I believe that secondary sources are helpful, for the Word reminds us, “In the multitude of counselors there is safety” (Proverbs 11:14), and even Apollos “was instructed more accurately in the way of God” through the faithful guidance of others (Acts 18:26). May we both continue to test all things and hold fast to what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21), as the Spirit bears witness through both Scripture and sound counsel.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Act 17:12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

I love this from Robertson-

With all readiness of mind (meta pāsēs prothumias). Old word from prothumos (pro, thumos) and means eagerness, rushing forward. In the N.T. only here and 2Co_8:11-19; 2Co_9:2. In Thessalonica many of the Jews out of pride and prejudice refused to listen. Here the Jews joyfully welcomed the two Jewish visitors.
Examining the Scriptures daily (kath’ hēmeran anakrinontes tas graphas). Paul expounded the Scriptures daily as in Thessalonica, but the Beroeans, instead of resenting his new interpretation, examined (anakrinō means to sift up and down, make careful and exact research as in legal processes as in Act_4:9; Act_12:19, etc.) the Scriptures for themselves. In Scotland people have the Bible open on the preacher as he expounds the passage, a fine habit worth imitating.
Whether these things were so (ei echoi tauta houtōs). Literally, “if these things had it thus.” The present optative in the indirect question represents an original present indicative as in Luk_1:29 (Robertson, Grammar, pp. 1043f.). This use of ei with the optative may be looked at as the condition of the fourth class (undetermined with less likelihood of determination) as in Act_17:27; Act_20:16; Act_24:19; Act_27:12 (Robertson, Grammar, p. 1021). The Beroeans were eagerly interested in the new message of Paul and Silas but they wanted to see it for themselves. What a noble attitude. Paul’s preaching made Bible students of them. The duty of private interpretation is thus made plain (Hovey).

J.