listen in the 10 commandments, the 6 commandment, says “do not kill”. given that “do not kill” is a command, breaking that command is defined as taking of a life. Now we need to understand when is life posessed on a being in God’s eye/definition. the only one is that of genesis 2:7 God forming the complete body/viable to be alive only then does he merge it with the breath of life and Adam becames a living soul. only then did he posessed life. now we apply this only descriptive definition/blueprint God gave to being forming in the womb. the body of the being in the womb must materialise to be viable/complete to be alive. this occurs around 6 months+ only then does the breath of life merge with the body and the being becomes a living soul then posessing life. this shows us that prior to this in the womb there is no life posessed by the being. therefore having an Abortion prior to the being in the womb posessing life does not break the commandment “Do not kill”
Interesting perspective. Not novel, but still interesting.
Let me ask you, I know some people who have been living for many years, who are not viable/complete as you seem to define it. These precious souls require mechanical assistance, chemical assistance, and/or a constant caretaker to remain “alive”. I know of others (myself included) who needed a machine to stay alive for period of time. For that period I was not viable. I also know many babies, who if left to themselves would die within a week. My first daughter died 6 minutes after she was born, in spite of all the help she was given. All of these are not viable/complete, are they? So, do they not have a “life possessed on a being in God’s eye/definition”? Do they not deserve to live, even if they are an inconvenience, even if they require the assistance of another person?
You say “God forming the complete body/viable to be alive”… “occurs around 6 months+ only then does the breath of life merge with the body and the being becomes a living soul then possessing life.” From where does this 6- months rule derive? How does one determine this is when God gives the person “the breath of life”? Is there a test for it? Some people being born at 9 months continue to need assistance breathing air, all need assistance eating. No one is born, even full term, “viable” needing no assistance, no one is born that will cease to live without assistance of some sort. So the person who is one month from conception needs biological assistance, just like the two-month fetus, or the nine month fetus, or the 3 month old baby. Some cannot survive on their own for the rest of their lives, which may be long and rewarding. Would killing them also not be breaking God’s 6th commandment?
Can you help me understand this?
KP
My point is that once the body in the womb materialises to be viable to be alive, the breath of life from God merges with the body and the being becomes a living soul and posesses life. I am not saying once you posess life you will have it till you grow old or for whatever duration of time. Viability of the body later on on a person who posesses life is not what i am talking about, im talking about viability of the body to be alive in the womb is what is necessery for the breath of life to merge and be a living soul to posess life. anything after that is not what i am talking about. Also i am not using the standard of definition of biology for life, i am using that of God’s Given in the bible. also im talking about posessing life not living that life you possess. I’m saying prior to posessing life as i shown, a person who has an abortion does not break the 6th commandment because there is no taking of a life. I’m not sure why you arguing survivle, i feel that relates to dependancy which doesnt relate to anything i had said. i was just talking about posessing life.
But, where did that 6-month rule come from. If not from viability (viability =survivability), how do we know ~6 months is the point of “viability of the body to be alive in the womb”; how do we know 6 months “is what is necessery for the breath of life to merge and be a living soul to posess life”? Where does that information come from?
KP
6months+ is the clinical viability. Its the medical bench mark.
Oh, you are accepting a “clinical” definitioin of viability. OK. Now I understand. I thought you said “the point of life” was “Under God’s definition”. You said:
Which is it. I’m confused.
I’m trying to understand your position, I’m not trying to be contrary.
KP
We as humans materialise the body in the womb to be vaible to be alive biologically, from then God gives the breath of life for the being to become a living soul and possess life. the standard of definition of posessing life given by God as shown in the bible is what I beleive in not the biological definition of life. Possessing life is my main point i am raising to be important Because according to breaking the 6th commandment killing is the taking of a life. So therefore prior to posessing life having an abortion for instance is not breaking the 6th commandment because there is no taking of a life.
I surely understand your point of view. My question is about how you arrived at “6 months” at the point of viability, if you do not accept the biological definition of life?
Do you see why I’m confused?
KP
It seems to me that if this is the scriptural model of when the “breath of life” enters a person, the person would need to be full grown. God didn’t create a baby, he created a full grown man, and then breathed life into him. And later he created a full grown woman.
There is no scriptural threshold of 6 months gestation when the breath of life enters a person that I can find.
I told you. It’s the clinical viability. Its the medical bench mark. You can google it. The materialisation of the body to be viable to be alive biologically is potential, with out God’s breath of life the body can not posess life. What matters is posessing life not the potential
Only God can give life, Tell me, exactly how then does life enter the womb?
At the moment of conception.
Conception is a biological event I’m asking about the gift of life. At what point does God give that gift? Where is the scriptural proof it happens at conception?
The scriptural evidence is that God plans our lives before we are born.
“Before I formed you in the womb I knew[a] you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”
Do you think God would hold a person guiltless who destroys a life that He planned before conception?
nowhere does it say at conception God gives the gift of life. Also, can you support with with scripture and show me how exactly how does God form us in the womb? when God said to Jeremiah ‘he knew him before the womb’ he was saying something true because God knows everything that is Gonna happen. God knowing what is gonna happen does not mean he plans that to happen, is God planning everything we gonna do with our freewill?
Sure, I get that, but you haven’t helped me with why God waits to impart life until the fetus is 6 months post-conception. I know if I “Google” it, our current medical capability is to assist a 6-month-old fetus, with incubation, which gives that baby a strong chance of survival. Before that, we are not currently capable to do much. 50 years ago, we could help an 8 month old fetus to survive. 100 years ago, there was no hope of saving anything except a full-term baby. If history is a guide, in another few years, we will be able to save a 4-month-old fetus, and so on. So “Google” says 6 months today, but that is only today. Understand?
Why do you believe God waits for a 6 month “potential” to impart the breath of life? Why not 4-month-old potential? Why not a 4-minute-old potential. See what I am saying? You are basing your “point of viability” on what medical science can do today (according to Google). I don’t see why God needs to wait for that, do you?
There are plenty of places in God’s word that lead us to understand that the “God’s breath” life of a person is at the very moment the person is conceived. Most of Spirit inhabited Christians believe this is what the Bible says. I’m wondering, why you believe otherwise. Do you have some personal experience that is contributing to your current belief?
KP
I already explained this in my original argument/post. i dont care what most christians believe i care what God says and does. Genesis 2:7 is the only descriptive definition in the entire bible that show us how a being is formed and posesses life and it is being done by God himself. I am applying the same blueprint to that of being forming in the womb and posessing life
In Psalm 139, David said:
**13 **For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
**14 **I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
**15 **My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place,
when I was woven together in the depths of the earth.
**16 **Your eyes saw my unformed body;
all the days ordained for me were written in your book
before one of them came to be.“
I would say that God gave “the gift of life” to David upon his conception in the womb, and then knit him together in the womb, according to His plan. There is no biological reason to deny that life begins at conception, nor is there a scriptural reason to do so.
You would have a stronger argument if your claim was that actual breathing is necessary for the “breath of life”. In that case, you could say that God gives the gift of life at birth. But that would deny other scripture, that we’ve already looked at.
The more important question might be, are you asking for permission, or absolution?
Then the blueprint is fully grown. I don’t think you are arguing for that. Yours is an extremely subjective rendering.
Alright kids, I’m off to visit the grandkids. I’m not deserting the conversation, but an interlude.
God’s blessings to all!