I understand your conviction, but I must say your words were unnecessarily harsh.You speak of obedience to God’s Word, and I fully share that desire. Yet we must also remember that the same Word calls us to gentleness, patience, and love in correction. If our defense of truth becomes unkind, then….it isn’t good.
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@Samuel_23 said:
I understand your conviction, but I must say your words were unnecessarily harsh.You speak of obedience to God’s Word, and I fully share that desire. Yet we must also remember that the same Word calls us to gentleness, patience, and love in correction. If our defense of truth becomes unkind, then….it isn’t good.
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It’s ironic you mention gentleness after throwing the stones of fear and lack of boldness at me. That also wasn’t kind of you. I will say this in plain terms though, my refusal to engage in your other forum is not out of fear; it’s out of obedience. The Word says to do exactly what I’m doing: “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him… nor greet him, for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds” ~2 John 1:10-11. God says to separate from false teachers, not befriend them.
Jesus, Paul and John the Baptist were all harsh with those who distorted the truth, for sin must be opposed. Jesus did not mince words with those who perverted Scripture; He called them what they were. Paul said false teachers had to be “silenced” because their lies “cause disorder among many” ~Titus 1:11. That’s why I’m blunt, not to be rude, but to be faithful.
You speak of gentleness, but being gentle has never required compromise. “Open rebuke is better than hidden love” ~Proverbs 27:5. The Word teaches us to speak truth in love, not love without truth. So if my words come across harsh, it’s because your teaching is untruthful and I will not allow it to go unchallenged for the sake of those who will read this. I will stand unbending on this, not out of personal conviction, but out of biblical conviction. I will be kind in word, but unrelenting in doctrine, for the Word of God is not a thing of negotiation.
hmmm….wassup bdavidc, how are you?
I hope things are well on your side. I just wanted to touch base and let you know I have shifted my focus to debating atheists and Protestants on a more general voice platform. It’s been engaging, and I’m learning a lot.
Honestly, you don’t need to be debating anyone, you should be examining what you teach. Shifting your focus doesn’t change the fact that your message isn’t the gospel revealed in Scripture. At least atheists make it clear they reject God, but false teachers claim to represent Him while twisting His Word. That’s worse because they disguise deception as truth. Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves” ~Matthew 7:15. Wolves are more dangerous than unbelievers because they look like part of the flock.
Peter warned, “There will be false teachers among you… and many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed” ~2 Peter 2:1-2. Atheists need the gospel, but not a false gospel like you teach, they’re lost in unbelief. But false teachers need rebuke, because they pretend to be lights while serving darkness ~2 Corinthians 11:13-15.
And yes, you are entitled to call another whatever you please. A false teacher; a bigot; a lying fool… etc…
What I’m NOT trying to do is to ‘teach’.
What I am trying to do is to let others know that I am is/am not I AM.
Gentleness shoud first be given to the members of the household of faith, no?
Then to the immediate family; if the immediate family is truly a 1st love.
But if not to the household of true faith; believing upon the truthfulness of The Word of God rather than on the interpretation or the version of the Bible being referred to, and if not to immediate family members; then for what reason should concern towards a stranger’s salvation be more necessary or important than immediate and/or household members?
And if ‘gentleness’ should be used towards all; regardless of crime or tort, then what does The Holy Bible really say about how to treat/deal with these sorts?
You see, this ‘heirarchy’ of importance has been very distorted for some unknown reason and any stranger can and has taken advantage of this ‘thought/conception’ for their own personal gains… Lawsuits, etc… Not that these individuals are ‘lacking’ in emotional ability to put oranges with oranges and apples with apples…. these, seemingly are brilliant enough to know what ‘hurts’ their emotions but above the age of 21? I mean, when will they begin practicing;
1 Corinthians 13:11 ?
“When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.”
In other words, if Church is supposed to be a ‘family’ unit of sorts, then where is the ‘natural affection’ and every ‘natural response’ with each other? Anger, doubt, … every ‘natural’ emotion that arises because of ‘external’ factors?
And if to suggest that one should be/feel ‘comfortable’ enough
to have invited into the personal ‘home’ to have ‘Church’;
as the ‘epistles’ speak of,
every single person that is ‘allowed’ into a building Church,
then you would be asking for individual ‘home’ owners to be ‘trusting’ enough towards any and all who are ‘welcomed’ into the Home Church;
regardless of who did the inviting, no?
So I can understand how a certain particular ‘church’ might prefer all within to be ‘treated/dealt’ with in a certain way.. This is ‘preference’… And there is nothing wrong with a ‘family’ preferring to ‘care’ for one another in any way they all agree upon.
But not all ‘families’ are the same.
And if 1 Corinthians 13:11 is being referred to; is it suggested that ‘family’ or ‘Church’ instills/teaches to another ‘family/church’ member what and how to be as an ‘adult’ and away from ‘childishness’? Is this taught? Or does an adult over the age of 21 have a ‘right’ to learn on his/her own what it means to be an adult aged person?
Otherwise, Church ‘teachings’ might be a very ‘real’ factor in ‘why’ an immediate family might begin to become divisive with themselves; being ‘told’ that their ‘natural’ affections are not up to ‘par’ with The Lord.
I mean the next time you take a look at the members of Church, ask; how many blue collared males are attending? Or is any brave enough to suggest that they are just ‘too’ much of a brute to have any ‘love’ towards The Christ?
I mean, if, biological parents do not teach their own biological children to be disrespectful or disobedient to the other; spouse, mom, dad, etc… then who is suggesting that it is okay for children to do so?
Are drugs acceptable by parents? Then chances are their children would have a similar view, yes?
So if being taught, per se, how has it been so long of time since any mention to The Christ’s true birth name was mentioned, footnoted, prefaced, etc… in The Holy Bible and/or by instructors of it? Because if there is no other Name under Heaven of which any is to be ‘saved’ - Acts 4:12, then how is it not vital or crucial? Yet all the while His birth name was/is a. ‘common’ name; even in transliteration.
In fact addressing Him as Joshua Christ would be much, much more correct.
..or.. The Beginning of the Besuras HaGeulah (the Good News of Redemption) of Yehoshua, Rebbe Melech HaMoshiach [the] Ben HaElohim.
Or Yeshua, but I pray to Jesus, our great God and Savior.
Shalom brother, and peace to you and family.
J.
Very true @david.p.rod.69
Honestly, this whole thread affected me more than I expected. I won’t go into details, because there is no reason to open something already painful, but the way people spoke here stayed with me much longer than the conversation itself. The accusations, the hostility, the certainty with which people judged me did not just upset me. It damaged me spiritually. I stopped reading Scripture for about a month. I stopped praying too. Not because I lost faith, but because every time I tried to pray, those accusations would come back into my mind. Instead of silence before God, I heard the voices of others telling me what I supposedly was.
It made me wonder if this is what Christianity has become. Is this what it means to follow Christ? Is the point of faith to tear each other apart, to leave someone feeling ashamed, confused, or unworthy of even speaking to God?
I kept thinking that Christians should reflect Christ, yet what I experienced felt completely opposite. It felt like people were more concerned with proving themselves right than showing compassion or humility. It felt like winning mattered more than understanding. Instead of being encouraged or strengthened, I walked away discouraged, hurting, and farther from prayer and Scripture than before. Not because of theology, but because of how people who claim to represent Christ chose to speak and treat another believer.
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@Samuel_23
I’m glad you have reflected on this episode, and have been able to put your pain into words. I appreciate your transparency.
Healing.
KP
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Reminds me of a psalm..
Psalm 101
Of David. A psalm.
**1 **I will sing of your love and justice;
to you, Lord, I will sing praise.
**2 **I will be careful to lead a blameless life—
when will you come to me?
I will conduct the affairs of my house
with a blameless heart.
**3 **I will not look with approval
on anything that is vile.
I hate what faithless people do;
I will have no part in it.
**4 **The perverse of heart shall be far from me;
I will have nothing to do with what is evil.
**5 **Whoever slanders their neighbor in secret,
I will put to silence;
whoever has haughty eyes and a proud heart,
I will not tolerate.
**6 **My eyes will be on the faithful in the land,
that they may dwell with me;
the one whose walk is blameless
will minister to me.
**7 **No one who practices deceit
will dwell in my house;
no one who speaks falsely
will stand in my presence.
**8 **Every morning I will put to silence
all the wicked in the land;
I will cut off every evildoer
from the city of the Lord.
I hear what you’re saying, and I am not discounting your feelings. But, I do want to be honest with you and that’s because Scripture tells us to speak the truth in love ~Ephesians 4:15. When a person teaches something contrary to what the Bible actually says, that ought to make us think. The Bible says, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” ~2 Corinthians 13:5. God tells us to test every spirit and every teaching ~1 Thessalonians 5:21 and ~1 John 4:1. That is not hostility. That is obedience.
What happened in that thread was not people tearing you down for no reason. It was believers holding your statements up to Scripture. When what you said did not line up with the Word, correction followed. That is exactly what Scripture commands us to do ~2 Timothy 4:2. True Christians have peace when they follow what God has actually spoken, not when they defend an idea that cannot be supported in the text.
You mentioned you felt “spiritually shaken” by people challenging you. I get that correction can sting, but the Bible says that God’s Word reproves, corrects, and instructs us ~2 Timothy 3:16. When correction pushes someone away from Scripture instead of toward it, that is usually a sign we were clinging to something God never said.
No one is your judge. The Word is. None of us have authority except what comes from Scripture. But when a brother or sister says, “Here is what the Bible says, plainly, in context,” that is not an attack. That is mercy. God loves you too much to let you build your faith on something untrue.
If you step back from the emotion and look at the actual verses that were given to you, you will see that no one was trying to tear you down. They were trying to point you to the truth. The peace you’re looking for comes from aligning your beliefs with God’s Word, not from avoiding uncomfortable correction.
Return to the Scriptures. Let God speak through His Word. That is where clarity and peace comes from ~Psalm 119:165.
You raised a lot of issues here, but none of that is actually relevant to the simple point of Scripture. Gentleness is not something that we use for some people and not others. It is not something that we use when we like their personality or agree with their lifestyle. The Bible says, “Let your moderation be known unto all men” ~Philippians 4: 5 and “a servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle unto all men” ~2 Timothy 2:24. It does not mean that we ignore sin or neglect to correct. It means we speak the truth in love ~Ephesians 4:15.
Gentleness never takes the place of truth. When a person preaches something that is not in Scripture, that is supposed to make them stop and examine themselves. True believers should have peace when they walk in what God actually said, not what some person thought or taught. The Bible commands us not to be deceived by “cunningly devised fables” ~2 Peter 1:16 or human traditions that lead us away from the Word ~Mark 7:7 through 8.
You also brought up the name of Jesus. Scripture has already plainly told us what His saving Name is. The New Testament was written in Greek, and the Holy Spirit kept “Iēsous” as the Name above every name ~Philippians 2:9 through 10. Acts 4: 12 does not command us to run after a different pronunciation. It tells us that salvation is in the Person Himself. The authority of His Name rests on who He is, not on us trying to force a Hebrew pronunciation the Scriptures themselves do not demand.
When we stay with Scripture in context, it is simple and clear. When we wander into speculation, personal definitions, or endless side roads, things get muddled. God is not the author of confusion ~1 Corinthians 14:33.
For the sake of clarity and our own good, it is always better to go back to the text and build our beliefs on what God has actually said.
Psalm 101 does not say it is okay to teach something that is not in the Bible. It actually says the opposite. David says he will stay away from anything false and will not approve of anyone who speaks what is not true.
So quoting this psalm does not defend your teaching. It does not excuse wrong doctrine. It does not say sincerity makes something right. God tells us to check every teaching by His Word ~1 Thessalonians 5:21 and to correct anything that does not match Scripture ~2 Timothy 3:16.
If your belief is biblical, you can show it with the verses. If it is not, Scripture says we must let go of it. That is how we walk in truth.
I share your sentiments. We should not rely on religious dogma to justify our faith in Christ. We are called to deny ourselves first, so that we can follow him and carry our cross daily. This is a personal relation between us and God. We need to seek after Gods heart daily and relinquish, fully, our faith in him. We have to go low, in order for him to elevate us. We are called to love to Lord with all our hearts, but we become so caught up in performative rhetoric, that is encouraged through religious dogma, that we don’t truly love God. We love the idea of God. As our love for God grows, so does our Faith and Faithfulness.