I’ve seen a few friends quietly step back from church or stop calling themselves Christian. Not out of anger—just distance, questions, life.
It’s made me wonder what faith looks like when it’s been bruised a bit. Have you ever gone through a season like that—when belief felt quieter but somehow deeper?
Drifting away from church might be different than drifting away from faith.
Many students find the religion they were raised in to be an embarrassment when they get to college.Often this is because they never really understood the faith behind their religion.
When I distanced myself from God, I found myself in deep trouble. I had no direction or purpose. When the sun rose, I thought, “When will it set?” and when it set, I asked, “When will it rise?” My life felt empty, and I began to wonder what faith really meant. Around the age of fourteen or fifteen, one question started to disturb me deeply: If I stand before God, what will I say to Him? Is my faith real?
That question became the turning point. I began to see that my faith wasn’t transforming my life. I called myself a Christian, yet I cursed, mocked, and hurt others. It felt like I praised God and the devil with the same mouth. That contradiction made me give up because my faith seemed powerless, it had no effect on who I was.
While I was in Lebanon, I heard this hymn:
and when I went to a church and heard this hymn as well:
which deeply resonated with my situation…
This moved me deeply. When I searched for its source, I discovered it came from the Syriac Orthodox Church. I was about fifteen or sixteen then, and that discovery drew me to read about Orthodoxy. One phrase struck me: “Real faith is transformative, for faith must produce works; without works, you do not have faith, and without that faith, you are not saved. You are not saved by simply calling Jesus ‘Lord,’ but by living the works that true faith produces.” That truth changed everything for me. Then I learned about the Real Presence in the Eucharist, Orthodox Baptism, and the continuity of Apostolic Tradition. The biggest revelation was the difference between “symbolism” and “real presence.” When I saw the Eucharist not as a mere remembrance but as Christ truly present, it became alive for me. It was no longer a symbol; it was the living mystery of God’s love on the altar, His Body and Blood for the salvation of the world.
Around that time, I came across the works of St. John Chrysostom. One paragraph became the final confirmation for me:
It is not the works of human virtue that are here placed before us; He who performed them at the Last Supper, now also performs them. We hold the place of His ministers (or servants); and it is He Himself who blesses and changes these (the bread and wine). Therefore, let no Judas be here present, nor any miser; for this table does not receive such guests. Let him who is truly a disciple be present, for Christ said: “I celebrate the Pasch with My disciples.” This is the same table; it contains nothing less. It is Christ who set up the feast at the Last Supper, and not (a mere) man who has set up this one; no; it is the same Christ who has set up this one also. Let no one who is devoid of humanity, who is cruel and unmerciful, who is impure, venture to approach this feast. This I say to those who receive Holy Communion and also to those who minister at the altar. For I must address you also, that you may most diligently distribute these gifts. For no small punishment awaits you, if you allow any one you know to be guilty of a grievous fault (that is, a known public sinner), to be a partaker of this feast, for Christ’s blood will then be demanded at your hands. Whether he who unworthily approaches be a general, or a magistrate, or even a crowned prince, you must refuse him (Holy Communion), for your power is greater than his… And thou, O layman, when thou see the priest offering (the holy Sacrifice), do not imagine that it is the priest who does this, but that thou see Christ invisibly extending His hand. Let us, then, both priests and laymen, hear of what food we have been made worthy; let us hear it and be dumbfounded. Jesus gave us His own flesh as our food, and set Himself immolated before us. What excuse shall we bring, after being so generously nourished with such meats, if we sin, if, like wolves, we devour the meek Lamb, or after having, like peaceful sheep, been fed, we become devouring lions? This mystery requires us to be entirely free not only from robbery, but even from the slightest uncharitable feeling, for it is a mystery of peace. God bound the Jews to Himself by instituting solemn feasts in memory and as monuments of His benefits towards them; He has bound Himself to thee every day by these mysteries (the Sacrifice of the Mass). Let no Judas, no Simon (Magus) approach this table; both of them perished through avarice; let us flee this abyss of perdition.
When I read that, I knew where I belonged. Orthodoxy wasn’t just theology, it was truth embodied. It was faith that calls for transformation, reverence, and reality. I could no longer live in symbolism or comfort. I had to live in truth.
Welcome, Orthodoxy.
Real faith must bear fruit and the Lord does call us not just to believe, but to be transformed. May we all approach His table with reverence and truth.
This is a very complicated subject because there’s so many reasons. Sometimes it’s 100% the person’s fault other times it’s the fault of other people. Christians can chase more people away then probably members of any other religion. Then there are intellectual issues there are instances for people find new information in regards to the Bible or a certain Church teaching and that’s a deterrent depending on how you view the Bible and church teachings beforehand. I’m sorry to give such a bland response but it is very complicated the each individual case is different. I will say that probably the same that chases more people away is the fact that people don’t feel valued. And don’t misunderstand me I’m not saying that you should eat a person up meaning that you shouldn’t devour them with attention and all that but if you treat people like they do not matter don’t expect them to come back to church don’t expect them to hold on to a faith where they feel that they’re not important so that’s all I said about that have a great day
Good thread.
The biblical diagnosis begins in Hebrews 2:1, “Therefore we must pay much closer attention to what we have heard, lest we drift away from it.” The verb there is παραρρεῖν (pararrein), literally “to flow past” or “to slip away,” used of a ship that drifts off course because the anchor was never set. The writer, addressing Jewish believers under pressure to return to Temple ritual, warns that passive neglect, not open rebellion, often begins the fall. Drifting is the silent erosion of conviction through neglect of the Word, prayer, and fellowship. The remedy is to “pay much closer attention,” a call to active fixation on the gospel already heard. The context connects this warning to the supremacy of the Son over angels, meaning that the drift starts whenever Christ is no longer regarded as the full and final revelation of God.
The Hebrew mindset behind this can be seen in Proverbs 4:23, “Keep your heart with all vigilance, for from it flow the springs of life.” The Hebrew verb נָצַר (natsar) means “to guard, watch, preserve,” implying intentional spiritual custody. The imagery parallels the Greek warning, because to let the heart drift is to stop guarding it. Israel’s history is a chain of this same pattern, they neglected Torah (תּוֹרָה), the covenant teaching, until idolatry replaced remembrance.
Another crucial text is 1 Timothy 4:1, “The Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will depart from the faith.” The verb ἀφίστημι (aphistēmi) means “to stand away, withdraw, fall away.” This is deliberate apostasy, not mere spiritual laziness. The following phrase, “giving heed to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,” shows that the drift has a doctrinal cause, truth displaced by deception. Throughout both Testaments, false teaching is the current that carries drifting hearts downstream. The same Greek root is used in Luke 8:13 for those who “believe for a while” but “in time of testing fall away.” The seed took root but had no depth; the cause is superficial reception without perseverance under trial.
Hebrews 3:12–13 intensifies this diagnosis, “Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away (ἀποστῆναι, from apostēnai) from the living God. But exhort one another every day.” The text gives both pathology and cure. Apostasy is not simply intellectual error but a moral unbelief, a heart that ceases to trust God’s faithfulness. The Greek construction emphasizes process, being “hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.” The remedy is community exhortation, daily mutual correction, the body of Christ guarding one another’s perseverance. Isolation fuels drift; fellowship restrains it.
Peter echoes this in 2 Peter 2:20–22, describing those who “have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge (ἐπίγνωσις, epignōsis) of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” yet are “again entangled” and “overcome.” The verbs suggest re-entrapment, moral relapse following intellectual knowledge without inner transformation. Peter likens it to a washed sow returning to the mire, shocking imagery to expose the self-deception of outward religion without inward renewal.
The Old Testament frames drift in covenantal terms. Jeremiah 2:13 defines it with divine grief: “My people have committed two evils: they have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed out cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns that can hold no water.” The Hebrew verbs עָזַב (azav), to forsake, and חָצַב (chatsav), to carve or hew, capture both abandonment and substitution. Apostasy is never neutral; it replaces God with something else. The heart always worships, even when it drifts.
Christ’s own parable in Matthew 13:18–23 gives the Lord’s interpretive key. The drifting heart corresponds to the seed among thorns and on rocky soil—temporary faith choked by cares, wealth, and pleasure, or scorched by tribulation. The Greek term for “choked” is συμπνίγω (sympnigō), meaning “to strangle together.” The spiritual life suffocates when the soul gives competing loyalties equal air.
At the cross we find the anchor against drift. Hebrews 6:19 calls hope “an anchor of the soul,” a direct answer to the nautical metaphor of Hebrews 2:1. The anchor is “both sure and steadfast” because it “enters within the veil,” meaning it is fastened to Christ Himself in the heavenly sanctuary. Apostasy begins when eyes move from the crucified and risen Christ to anything else, ritual, intellect, comfort, or fear. Perseverance flows not from resolve but from union with the crucified Lord who holds His own.
In practice, Scripture calls the church to vigilance: to μελετάω (meletaō), meditate on the Word, to προσκαρτερέω (proskartereō), continue steadfastly in prayer and fellowship, and to παρακαλέω (parakaleō), encourage one another daily. Apostasy is prevented by discipline of remembrance, heart guarding, and the active ministry of believers to one another.
To sum the exegetical thread:
- Drifting (παραρρεῖν) begins through neglect.
- Falling away (ἀφίστημι, ἀποστῆναι) proceeds through unbelief and deception.
- Apostasy (עָזַב / ἀποστασία) culminates in forsaking the living God.
- The cure is vigilance, community exhortation, and anchoring faith in the crucified and risen Christ, who secures our perseverance.
Thus Scripture exposes drift as the quiet slide from devotion to distraction, from Christ’s voice to worldly noise, from anchored faith to unmoored curiosity. The Hebrew prophets lamented it, the apostles warned against it, and the cross alone arrests it, for only the Lamb slain has power to steady a heart that would otherwise float away.
J.
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Of course, there are times in life when faith is silent or struggling. The Bible is full of laments like that, David asked, “How long, O Lord? Will You forget me forever?” ~Psalm 13:1, and Job declared, “Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him” ~Job 13:15. God is not afraid to allow suffering to increase authentic faith.
But we cannot gloss over the reality that the Bible speaks so plainly about those who reject Him altogether. “They went out from us, but they were not of us… that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us” ~1 John 2:19. A faith that fully forsakes Christ is not wounded, it is worthless. True faith stumbles, but never strays.
And so if a person is walking away, the answer is not to keep going; but to come back to the One who never turned His back on us. God can use trials to purify His own, but He will let the counterfeit be revealed so that they might see for themselves and come to the one, true salvation in Jesus Christ. “Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you” ~James 4:8.
Your story shows sincerity, but sincerity doesn’t equal salvation. You may have been moved by words, rituals, and emotion, but the Bible says salvation comes only by grace through faith in Christ alone, not through ceremony, liturgy, or apostolic lineage ~Ephesians 2:8-9.
You talk about the “Real Presence,” but Scripture says Christ’s sacrifice was once for all and is never repeated on any altar ~Hebrews 10:10-14. The bread and the cup are symbols that proclaim His finished work, not objects that contain Him ~1 Corinthians 11:26. The Lord’s Table points us to the cross; it doesn’t recreate it.
True transformation doesn’t come from ancient tradition, it comes from being born again by the Spirit through the Word of God ~John 3:3, ~1 Peter 1:23. Orthodoxy don’t save you; Jesus does. “If the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed” ~John 8:36.
You’ve now been shown the truth from Scripture. If you continue to trust in man-made religion instead of the finished work of Christ, you’ll be held accountable before God ~James 3:1. Turn from the system that exalts ritual over redemption. Come to Christ Himself, not the church walls that claim to contain Him. He alone saves, not the chalice, not the priest, not the ceremony.
Hear me plainly: if you lead people into a false religion or teach a false gospel, you will answer to God for every soul you mislead. Teachers carry a weighty responsibility and will be held to a stricter judgment ~James 3:1.
Jesus warned the same thing in the strongest terms: “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him that a millstone were hung about his neck and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.” ~Matthew 18:6.
Turn from any teaching that exalts ritual or men over the finished work of Christ. Preach Christ alone, call people to repentance, and lead souls to the Savior, not to traditions that cannot save.
What you quoted isn’t Scripture, it’s from John Chrysostom, a fourth-century church father. His is theology made of man, not of God. The Bible never says that Christ is being offered over and over again or that the bread and wine are changed into His flesh and blood. Scripture clearly states that Christ “offered one sacrifice for sins for ever” and then “sat down at the right hand of God” ~Hebrews 10:12. The cross was once for all, not a ritual that is re-enacted on an altar. When you give the words of man the same authority as God’s Word, you exchange the truth for a tradition. The Lord has warned us about this: “In vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” ~Mark 7:7. Stop being slaves to men who have perverted worship into ceremony and called it salvation. Return to the Word of God itself. Jesus did the work – no priest, no mass, no ritual can add to it. Repent, believe the Gospel, and rest in the sufficiency of Christ alone.
People remember, if anyone knows Jesus Christ, they will direct people to His Word, not the writings of man. “If you love Me, keep My commandments” ~John 14: 15, and His commandments are found in Scripture not church councils or religious commentary.
A heart sold out to Christ will magnify Him, not man. “He must increase, but I must decrease” ~John 3:30, said John the Baptist. That is the mark of authentic faith, to lead people back to the authority of God’s Word.
When someone claims to know Christ, yet constantly quotes men to prove their faith, then that person has completely missed the heart of the Gospel. “My sheep hear My voice” ~John 10: 27 says Jesus, not the voice of priests, patriarchs or theologians.
**Paul warns the church about false teachers and deceptive appearances: **
“And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” ~2 Corinthians 11:14
Paul’s point is that Satan doesn’t usually show up looking dark or evil, he’s a deceiver, a master of disguise who presents himself as something holy, enlightening, or beautiful in order to fool people. It’s a sobering warning that not everything that sounds religious or feels spiritual is necessarily from God.
Enono Nuhro Shariro
Left symbolism…now I feel near to God
@bdavidc you can join me in discord, we can have voice-to-voice debates and we will meet Dn.Hapog and Fr. Anastasios and you can debate with them…only if you are willing, if so, then please inform me…I’ll send you the invite, but only if you are willing
Don’t worry, people from Crosswalk like Agnes, ILOVECHRIST and ServantofChrist (I wont tell their names) are also there…
Trying to be the ‘best Christian’ possible to yourself and before the eyes of Holy God can get difficult. Especially when living with loving family members. Why? Because although they are loving and very concerned for the well being of the other family members, they are not always doing what is instructed by God. And when they, still in love, do things which are contrary to God’s Word, it can cause a cut of sorts within the believing heart. And when the need to separate from family members, at least at a certain distance, becomes a reality to not have self bruised too much, the walk with The LORD, still being sincere, becomes less needing approval by others and more needing approval from The One being served… He sees. I follow. I obey to the ‘best’ of my ability…. and then the daily life with its needs being/not being met… and following after; the physical pains and aches because of the separating self from those ‘things’ which are contrary to God’s Word…
And so then you have the choice needing to choose. How sincere am I with this Christian and The Law of God and God’s Word am I really? Or am I fence walking and being led joyfully yet blindly?
And then looking back at how the suffering was needed among the family members. Sincere enough to endure and endure.. And being separated from them, sincere enough to endure and endure alone trying to ‘do the right’ thing by God’s standards. Of course, I’m not going to be ‘perfect’ as He Is Perfect; but the finish line is not the beginning line. It is a process. The finish line is ahead, not behind…
So then if going back to the family and such ways…. the cycle begins all over. the need to endure every time the family, even in sincerity, does contrary to The Word of God and then defending the contrariness.
I have no desire to argue with false teachers anywhere. The only reason I am responding here is because you put your false teachings on a public forum in an attempt to deceive people. I already know what you teach is deception and I am not coming with you to another platform to argue about it again. My duty is to defend the truth of God’s Word where you are spreading error, not to give your deception more of a voice.
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Alright then, no compulsion. I only suggested a voice debate because truth has nothing to fear from open scrutiny. In every age, when men stood for what they believed to be true, they faced their interlocutors directly. That is what conviction looks like. Your refusal to engage publicly does not resemble confidence in Scripture, rather it resembles fear of being exposed before it.
Are you assuming a moral high ground?
You curse and condemn, as though the authority to anathematize lies in your private opinion. But you are doing exactly what the devil did to the Church, twisting the Word, tearing it from the life of the Body that preserved it, and then claiming to speak for God against His own people. You claim to defend Scripture, yet you despise the very Church through which the Scriptures came to you. You quote verses while rejecting the communion of saints who received, copied, and canonized them.
If you truly believed the Word of God is living and active, you would not run from dialogue. Christ did not fear questions. Only those unsure of their foundation refuse to speak when their words are tested. Your behavior proves what your doctrine denies, that Scripture alone cannot preserve unity or truth apart from the Church. Because if you stepped into open debate, the inconsistency of your position would collapse under its own weight. You can keep hurling curses, but the measure you use will be measured back to you. The Church you attack has outlived empires, heresies, and every self-appointed reformer who mistook zeal for truth.
Personally, @Samuel_23, I think you owe @bdavidc an apology, and I believe the moderators should step in here. If your goal is to turn the Crosswalk forum into an Eastern Orthodox mission field, I’m done.
@Fritzpw_Admin, please do the right thing.
J.
Johann, with respect, I will not apologize for defending the truth with reason and evidence when I was met with accusation and condemnation.
It was bdavidc who first chose to anathematize, calling me a false teacher, claiming that I was “deceiving people,” and even refusing open dialogue when invited to test his claims. I did not curse him; I responded to his public denunciation by asking him to defend what he asserts. That is not hostility, that is accountability.You call this a “mission field,” but if you mean by that that I speak as an Eastern Christian, then yes, I speak from that tradition of faith that preserved the very Scriptures now being used to condemn it. If you and bdavidc are confident that your interpretation stands upon truth, then why fear open examination? Why reduce disagreement to “false teaching” rather than engage it in the light of history and Scripture itself?
See faults in me if you wish, but I call for respect. There is a limit to what I can accept, and I cannot continue to bear insults disguised as zeal. Every time before, I have let it go for the sake of peace, but not this time. There must be mutual respect in any discussion, or it ceases to be a search for truth and becomes only noise.
This topic/thread has turned quite passionate, and I respect that people hold deep convictions here. I just want to remind us all that we’re brothers and sisters in Christ, even when we disagree. Let’s keep the focus on the ideas, not each other, and speak with the kind of grace we’d hope to receive. A strong debate doesn’t need to become a personal one. Thanks for staying respectful.
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Yes, I call for respect, rather than accusations…
Anyways coming back to the topic
Sola Scriptura means scripture alone
Sola Fide means faith alone
Sola Gratia means grace alone
Sola Christus means Christ alone
Soli Deo Gloria means to the glory of God alone
Love this in the OJB version @JennyLynne
1Co 13:1 If in the leshonot of Bnei Adam and malachim I speak, but I do not have ahavah, I have become only a sounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have nevu’ah and have da’as of all sodot and all da’as, and if I have all emunah so as to remove mountains, but ahavah I do not have, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 And if I’m a marbitz tzedaka and give all I possess in gemilut chasadim and if I give my body al kiddush ha-Shem for sereifah (death by burning), but ahavah I do not have, I have gained nothing. [DANIEL 3:28]
1Co 13:4 Ahavah suffers long; ahavah is kind; ahavah does not have kinah; ahavah does not brag; ahavah is not puffed up in ga’avah (conceit, pride);
1Co 13:5 ahavah does not behave shamelessly; ahavah does not in anochiyut insist on its own way; ahavah is not touchy and vindictive, keeping a record of wrongs (ZECHARYAH 8:17).
1Co 13:6 Ahavah does not find simcha in evil, but rejoices in HaEmes.
1Co 13:7 Ahavah covers all things (MISHLE 10:12), believes all things, has tikvah (hope), even zitzfleisch, for all things.
1Co 13:8 Ahavah never fails. However, divrei nevu’ah will be abolished; leshonot will cease; da’as will come to an end.
1Co 13:9 For we have da’as in part, and we have divrei nevu’ah is part.
1Co 13:10 But when shleimah (completion) comes, the teilvaiz (partial) will disappear.
1Co 13:11 When I was a yeled, I used to speak like one, think like one, reason like one. But when I became mevugar (mature), I put away kinderyohrn. [Ps 131:2]
1Co 13:12 For still we see through a mirror indistinctly. But then [in the Olam Haba], distinctly, panim el panim. Now I have da’as only in part; then I will have da’as fully, even as also Hashem had full da’as of me. [Job 26:14; 36:26; Gn 32:30; Job 19:26]
1Co 13:13 But now remain emunah, tikvah, and ahavah, these shalosh (three). And the greatest of these is ahavah.
Stay strong eis/Christ Jesus.
J.
OJB was very confusing for me when I was around 15 or 16, but I enjoyed reading it because of the rhythm and flavor of the language. The transliteration and Hebrew terms give a sense of the original context that makes certain passages feel more immediate and vivid. Later, after studying some of the original languages, I came to appreciate OJB even more for its depth, nuance, and fidelity to the source, though I still like YLT for its literalness and clarity.
I have nothing against a true church that exalts Jesus Christ, but I sure do for a false one that exalts man above Jesus. The true Church submits to Scripture; the false one perverts it to retain authority. You elevate men and systems above the Word, but Jesus said, “Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I say?” ~Luke 6:46. The only authority that remains is God’s Word, not the traditions or hierarchies men build around it.
You say I’m afraid to debate you and I have been debating you, but you don’t believe the bible, you believe in men. I sure don’t want to get involve with more of your false teachers. I’m not afraid, I’m obedient. The Bible also says not to give a platform to false teachers: “If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him… for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works” ~2 John 1:10-11. That’s why I won’t follow you into another venue, or give you a louder pulpit.
Your position denies what Jesus affirmed: “Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth” ~John 17:17. God’s Word doesn’t need your system to protect it. It’s already eternal and indestructible ~John 10:35. I’m not here to argue with you, I’m here so others won’t be deceived by your error. The Bible condemns men like you who “distort the word of God” and “lead many astray” ~2 Peter 3:16.
So let me be clear: I stand with the living Word, not the dead religion of men. The Word of God does not bend, and neither will I.