Which is real, what is visible or what is not?

[KPuff]

@peaceful23

At your prompting, I went back and re-read the thread you mentioned in your post. You took a lot of heat over there, standing against many strong opinions and not-a-few strong theologians. You held your ground, but in so doing you offered many explanations for this phenomenon, which, according to you, is an outward, visible act you called, “slain in the Spirit”. You seem to be defending the genuineness of this phenomenon that you call “being slain in the Spirit”.

At times you spoke of this visible event to be a work of God’s Holy Spirit, that comes on a person, at other times you describe this event as a reenactment testimony to “dying to self”. Sometimes you describe it as being ministered to by God, as a way God speaks to an individual, at other times you seem to be considering it a way in which we serve God. At times you said it was an involuntary “being overcome” by God’s Spirit, and other times you spoke of it being voluntary expression of worship. Sometimes you consider it a private experience, and other times you speak of it as being a part of a corporate meeting. Now in this recent post you ask the question “What new thing did God teach or impress on a person who claims to be “slain in the Spirit?”, as if this phenomenon is actually a teaching vehicle God uses. You didn’t speak too much about the specific mechanics of the phenomenon, like what precipitates it, or what brings it on, or if a person can cause it to happen, or keep it from happening, but most of the time you spoke of it as being spontaneous, unexpected, and wholly “spirit inspired”. I hear you, and I’m trying to understand you.

Now, this time you start your thread with the title question: “Which is real, what is visible or what is not?”

You open by charging your opposition with being “critics” who are focusing on the wrong thing.

@peaceful23

Maybe the critics should take their eyes off the falling and the laying on of hands and just accept that people are ministered to in all their private ways.

I don’t think I’m a critic, but I accept your admonition. I appreciate that “people are ministered to (served) in all their private ways”. To be sure, certain occurrences are meaningful to one person that may be meaningless to another. But I’m wondering if you are now suggesting that the visible outward manifestation of being “slain in the Spirit” is evidence of “God invisibly serving a person” personally, in their own unique way? To be candid, reading your explanations, I feel like I’m chasing a sales-receipt through the Walmart parking lot on a windy day.

I get this particular Pentecostal phenomenon is meaningful to you personally, and as you have said:

@peaceful23

I do not enjoy services where everything is planned ahead of time and there is nothing ethereal or surprising in the service. Those services seem dead to me. I sometimes feel something is missing when everything is planned and in logical order.

This is the way you are wired, and I appreciate that. I actually agree with you in this.

You consider yourself a “Pentecostal leader” in your role at public meetings, as you have said:

@peaceful23

I think we leaders of believers need to consciously give the right of way to the Holy Spirit in our services, since it has become ordinary to rule out demonstrations of God’s power that we do not understand, and that is because we fear losing control of the services that are really the responsibility of Christ in His Church.

I see you take your responsibility as a leader very seriously. I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusion, that it is misunderstanding God’s power that causes saints to reject (rule-out) certain practices, nor it is always a “fear of losing control”. You may be right that this happens in some situations, but not right in that you think it is “ordinary”. There are many noble reasons to reject some practice as being disingenuous. The most obvious reason to reject a practice is when it has no biblical precedent, no biblical instruction, no teaching to expect it, nor any indications of it ever happening at any time in the future, and the same practice contradicts some very clear biblical teaching. There are other strong reasons to reject some practices, but this particular set of reasons is much more “ordinary”, and much more righteous (IMHO).

With all that as epilog, I come to your original question: “Which is real, what is visible or what is not?”.

You say:

@peaceful23

Satan wants us to discuss the physical manifestations, rather than the holy work of God in persons. How God makes changes in us to grow us into the image of His Son may be many and few found in scripture. But it is the result of certain ministries that we are accountable to God for.

I’m not so sure it is Satan who is prompting this discussion about a physical manifestation, but I agree with you that we can discuss the holy work of God in a person apart from this particular act. I agree that how God transforms us, renewing our mind is, in many ways, very mysterious. I am not sure what you mean by “But it is the result of certain ministries that we are accountable to God for.”. Maybe you could explain that idea to me. Maybe you can also explain to me your ideas about why the physical manifestation of being “slain in the Spirit” is important to defend, if the important part is really “the holy work of God in persons”?

Just trying to understand.

KP