Who or What is The Anti-Christ

As the OP from the original post doesn’t want the topic to be about the Anti-Christ, but about Peter Thiel’s Beliefs about the Anti-Christ, I figued to create a topic about ALL aspects of the Anti-Christ and who or what he, she, or it is.

Continuing the discussion from Peter Thiel and the Antichrist:

As I orignally wrote (and then deleted to respect the OP’s wishes)… Wikipedia says that the Antichrist, or in broader eschatology, the Anti-Messiah, refers to a kind of entity prophesied by the Bible to oppose Jesus Christ and falsely substitute himself as a savior in Christ’s place before the Second Coming.

It leads me to wonder: Could that entity mean to also include Robotics and/or AI? A valid speculation in this day and age.

Wikipedia further says that the term Antichrist (including one plural form) is found four times in the New Testament, solely in the First and Second Epistle of John. (I thought it mentioned it less than that.) Of note, this verse stands out…

This reminds me of talks and speculation that there have been LEGIONS of Antichrists throughout history, including HitIer and Trump… So I wonder if his (Theil’s) talks have anything to do with any of that.

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I watched the video provided on the original post and it was very informative. You’re right though. My question had to do with Thiel and not the AC. Thiel seems to view the AC more as a system instead of an individual. He makes a good argument, but I have always been taught and have believed the AC to be a person.

What Thiel talks about is important when you consider the power and influence the man has. He’s American. I’m not, so I thought there would be more information available from the Americans on this site. I had thought him to be well known.

I think the Bible uses the term AC to include anything that is against Jesus. This spirit of the antichrist has been around for some time. Probably since the beginning, but in the book of Revelation the AC becomes personified as a person. Or so I thought. There are a lot of personal characteristics assigned to the AC and that leads me to still believe he’s a man.

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I would say most Americans know of Thiel. But it is rare to hear of him even in evangelicalism. Yet when he is it can tend to be a bit obsessive. There are mainstream branches of evangelicalism that burst out in all manner of speculation regarding end times. it is a pretty massive deal in the Calvery Chapel branch for example: Billy Crone, Tom Hughes, Brandon Holthaus, JD Farag, jack Hibbs, John Haller, Amir Tsarfati. Its fringe but big. Thiel in those circles tends to get a lot of press because of his connections to big government and trump. So he is thought of as a man who is of AC watch list like (similar to some holding Trump up there and some holding Elon Musk with his brain chip up there).

So this is the kind of thing and reason i might share divergent thoughts on the matter. I primarily have the same level of seeing end times nearer rather than further away. But my eschatology is rather different from those mentioned here. As for the days of the age of grace i would see we have some good things to look forward to in the short term. This perspective is incompatible with mainstream evangelical end time prophecy that would see most to all events leading to evil only. Whereas for example like with the Abraham Accords. They would see that as the covenant the AC will strengthen. Whereas i would see it as that which testifies of a huge number of Muslims coming to Christ.

I understand the Abe Accords is heretical in theory. But in practicality i believe it serves as a momentum to the Muslims coming to the Messiah in droves while Israel still merely only trickles in by comparison (as she is still under partial hardening). So i would just see this as an indication America will become more powerful (whereas most biblical theologists are waiting to see how America must fall since they don’t see America in prophesy). And i would also see that Israel will become super powerful and at peace. This is my eschatology. I am a cessationist (I don’t believe in modern prophets…so this is just me guessing). I would guestimate Ez 38 to be on the skewer, and for that to happen Israel has to have peace and safety. Something we have not seen in almost a century.

So where evangelicalism would see a covenant the antichrist will strengthen and waits for America to collapse, i am over here in the other corner of the room watching America become more powerful and helping also to make Israel more powerful. Believing we won’t see who the AC is prior to the tribulation–I don’t believe the church to be in (is my belief). So just noting this to show the differences are not minor.

. . . . .

As for the AC, i believe that the AC is a person according to Rev 13. I can understand why some think it is a system. I believe both views are afforded by language in Revelation. What would be ironic is that if AC is like a nation or a system and the closest thing we have to a person is an image that speaks…lol…that would be kind of funny how the closest it came to being a person would be a mere image…that talks…lol.

One way i believe to get at this is what kinds of AC’s has the bible noted? I don’t recall any nation called AC. I believe when that term is used it is referring to people. One for sure is Antiochus. He even sets up Jupiter to be worshipped in the temple. So this mirror image i would say is the most solid depiction of antichrist per Daniel articulation prophetically. And confirmed historically. Do you guys know of any nation the bible refers to as AC? Or even a system? So in that sense I would say it is a person.

But it is kind of strange to note that during the second half of the tribulation it appears that in Matt 24 it is disclosed that while the AC is ruling there will also be other AC’s. Those in the inner room or out there in the field. I guess there will be a lot of them in the second half. But seemingly one leading one demanding worship, attested to by a false prophet, and demands the taking of his mark. I’m not sure if any of that helps. But hopefully it circles the wagons somewhat. Blessings.

Thank you for your thoughts on the AC. You asked…

Some would argue America, as It was founded to be separated in church and state. I’ve also heard China, Europe and Russia.
But, still not in the Bible.

You also state…

I had not hear of him until today. I don’t really follow the worlds of business or politcs. A dangerous game, but it keeps me sane.

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While we don’t really get an explicit “The Antichrist is a future enemy of the people of God that will show up at some point” anywhere in the Bible. From very early on Christians saw, through many passages, what appeared to be describing such a figure; the precise texts Christians used varied a little, but the main ones were the Beast in the Revelation, the Man of Sin in 2 Thessalonians, and where St. John in his 1st Epistle says “You have heard Antichrist is coming”.

This led a handful of prominent early Christian theologians, especially St. Irenaeus and St. Hippolytus, to go into some detail. Hippolytus, especially, wrote one of the earliest treatises on the subject “On Christ and Antichrist”.

In time this led to greater speculations–who is the Antichrist? And the game of pin the tail on the donkey has been going on for centuries. Muhammad, Popes, politicians, princes, emperors, to modern presidents and celebrities have all been imagined as the Antichrist.

It’s been an excessively long time since I read it, and I have been unable to find the source which makes me wonder if I dreamed it up somehow–but I recall reading a statement from the great St. Augustine saying we should be less concerned with trying to figure out who the Antichrist might be; and more concerned that we don’t, ourselves, become antichrists–that is the real danger for the Christian isn’t necessarily an eschatological bogeyman; but a heart that resists following Jesus.

If you were to ask me what “antichrist” means in the most explicitly biblical sense (i.e., where the text explicitly uses this term) I think St. John is pretty clearly talking about certain heretics. These heretics were going around teaching dangerous doctrines, specifically a form of proto-Gnosticism.

Ancient tradition links St. John to an early heretic by the name of Cerinthus gets presented as a kind of archnemesis to John. Cerinthus lends his name to a doctrine known as Cerinthianism; Cerinthus taught a form of Docetism, making a distinction between the man Jesus and the divine Christ. Cerinthus taught that at Jesus’ baptism “Christ” descended (one imagines he conflates “Christ” here with the Holy Spirit who descended at Jesus’ baptism in the form of a dove) and effectively possessed, or took full control and agency. Then at the crucifixion “Christ” departs, leaving the man Jesus hanging on the cross lonely and afraid.

This explains some of the statements St. John makes in his epistles about those who deny Jesus is the Christ, who deny the Son, that Jesus Christ became flesh, etc. These are condemnatory statements directed at Docetic beliefs: that Jesus Christ only seemed (from the Greek verb dokeo, meaning “to seem”) to be human. Later Docetic works like the Acts of John are super-explicit in their rejection of Christ’s humanity, describing Jesus taking on various forms at will, or not leaving footprints in the sand, or where sometimes when trying to touch Jesus he would be solid while other times hands went right through him like he wasn’t even there.

I think what St. John is calling antichrist are these teachings and teachers, these are of “the spirit of antichrist”; he’s saying these things are against Christ, set against Him, opposite of Him, preaching such rank and grotesque falsehood that they aren’t just wrong, they are ANTI-Christ.

That said, the phrase “you have heard antichrist is coming” is still in the text. Though perhaps relevant is whether St. John wrote ὅτι ὁ ἀντίχριστος “that the antichrist” or ὅτι ἀντίχριστος “that antichrist”. The inclusion of exclusion of the definite article is relevant; while the exclusion doesn’t necessarily rule out the meaning of a definitive capital-A Antichrist; it does leave room for a more general sense, “an antichrist”? Perhaps, or simply meaning that what is coming is that (not necessarily a person) antichrist (that which opposes Christ) is coming, because “it is the last hour”.

My opinion: I don’t believe there is enough biblical material to say, at a dogmatic level, that there is or will be a capital-A Antichrist. I don’t reject it, but I also don’t argue for it as a matter of dogma.

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i worship God more than anything God bless u

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