Coming Tribulation: Peace, Not War

Theology
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PART 1

Brethren in Jesus Christ:

If you’re listening to the pulpit sensationalists who try to tell us that the coming “great tribulation” is going to be about all out chaos and war, etc., then you should realize they are not preaching that from The Bible. God’s written Word shows the coming tribulation will instead be a time of world peace and prosperity. And one of the main reasons why it will be this way is because the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah is coming to play our Lord Jesus Christ with the power to perform great signs, wonders, and miracles to fool the whole world.

Below is what God’s Word actually says of how things will be in the “great tribulation”…

Matt 24:6-8
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

Jesus’ disciples with Him on the Mount of Olives asked Him what would be the sign of His coming, and of the end of this world. So the subject is definitely about the very END of this world, the coming “great tribulation” time that is still future to us. Notice Lord Jesus we’d hear of wars and rumors of wars, BUT that the END is not yet. The “end” Jesus referred to is the time of “great tribulation” that happens just prior to His future return.

So if the “end” is not when we hear of wars and rumors of war, then what kind of time will the “end” be like? Well, what is the opposite of a time of war and rumors of war? It is a time of peace. Thusly, as long as see wars and hear of wars going on in this world, the tribulation hasn’t started yet. But when they start saying ‘peace and safety’, like Apostle Paul forewarned in 1 Thessalonians 5, then watch out, for that is the time of the END, the “great tribulation” time.

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PART 2

Apostle Paul covered this matter about the end of this world being a time of peace and safety also. He pulled quite a bit of the prophecy about the end from the Old Testament prophets concerning the “day of the Lord”, which is the last day of this world when Jesus comes to gather His saints. Open your Bible to 1 Thessalonians 5.

1 Thess 5:1-9
5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

In Revelation 16:15, and in Christ’s Olivet discourse, Lord Jesus used the idea of a thief breaking in at night to represent the hour of His future coming. In the Revelation 16 example Jesus said He comes “as a thief”, and is warning His Church to not be surprised.

The “times and the seasons” Paul speaks of above is about the signs God’s Word gives about the events to happen at the end of this world leading up to Lord Jesus’ future return. Lot of those signs were first written in the Old Testament prophets, which is where Paul is pulling this “day of the Lord” idea from.

3 For when they shall say, “Peace and safety”; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

When that “day of the Lord” comes, the deceived will be saying that, “Peace and safety”. They won’t be talking about war nor rumors of war, nor world chaos, famines, etc. They will actually believe that finally world peace on earth for all… peoples has finally come. They will see prosperity come along with it. That… is what the “great tribulation” event will actually be about for the deceived, and that means for the majority of the world like Revelation 13:4-8 reveals.

But when Jesus returns, coming in the clouds on that “day of the Lord”, the wicked and deceived will experience that “sudden destruction”. That event is what ends the time of “great tribulation.”

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

But those in Christ Jesus who faithfully wait for His future coming to end that “great tribulation”, we are not in darkness that the “day of the Lord” will take us by surprise like a thief breaking in. We are not to be spiritually asleep with not knowing the kind of times it will be, because we are actually watching and paying attention to the signs of the end which Lord Jesus gave us to be watching per His Olivet discourse and His Book of Revelation.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

But those who are asleep (spiritually), are not watching the signs, i.e., the “times and the seasons”. They are not prepared for the thief breaking in. They instead are spiritually drunken on men’s doctrines and don’t pay attention to what God’s Word reveals how the end of this world will play out. Some of their preachers even tell them they don’t have to watch, nor understand the signs Jesus gave in His Revelation, because of their lie that we the Church won’t be here for the “great tribulation,” i.e., that we will be raptured prior to the tribulation. That doctrine is directly from Satan’s host that is going to destroy many souls that will be deceived.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
KJV

Christ’s FAITHFUL Church is not appointed to God’s cup of wrath that will cause that “sudden destruction” upon the wicked and deceived with Christ’s future coming. Notice I said Christ’s ‘faithful’ Church. That means those in Christ that WAIT for His coming, instead of falling away to worship the false-Messiah that comes first playing Jesus in Jerusalem during the tribulation. Those not remaining “a chaste virgin” like Paul forewarned are those who instead will fly away to the “another Jesus”, a Jesus which Paul and the Apostles did NOT preach, but instead the false one which super apostle fakes preach.

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PART 3

Where in God’s prophets is it written where this idea about the future false-Messiah coming to power as king in Jerusalem using peace and prosperity, and flatteries? Daniel 8 is one place, about the “king of fierce countenance”…

Dan 8:23-25
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.

24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
KJV

That “king of fierce countenance” is about the Antichrist at the end of this world. He has many titles, and that is just one of them.

Notice that he will use PEACE to destroy, and that CRAFT will prosper in his hand. That is just the opposite of what a lot of the pulpit puppets are teaching from their religious organizations. Many of them are instead preaching all out war and chaos, and Christians murdered at the drop of hat. It’s not going to be like that according to God’s Word. Even many Christian brethren will be deceived by that coming fake… world peace and prosperity that false-Messiah will bring for the world. That fake Christ is coming to play our Lord Jesus Christ, and we are warned about that in God’s Word to not believe that coming false one is Christ. That false-Messiah is going to solve all the world’s problems, which is why the whole world will wonder at him and worship him as The Christ-Messiah. Yet, our True Messiah, Lord Jesus Christ, will return later to destroy that false-Christ.

Only Christ’s “very elect” will not be deceived by that false-Messiah playing Christ in Jerusalem. And it will be these which that false-Messiah will persecute. He will specifically go after those of us in Christ who know the Truth about who he is, and that he will be a fake-Christ. Some of us will be delievered up because of holding to this Truth we were warned about in God’s Word. And Lord Jesus told us to not premediate what we will speak in that ‘hour’, but to speak what The Holy Spirit gives us to say. And Jesus said in Luke 21 that not one hair on our head will perish. So like Apostle Paul also said elsewhere, ‘If God be for us, who can be against us’.

If you are not getting this Bible teaching at your Church, then it’s up to you to discipline yourself in God’s Word about it, asking God for understanding.

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@DavyP
I read, with interest, your post because I was intrigued by the title

“Coming Tribulation: Peace, not war”

I see how you attribute your POV as substantially different (more accurate) than the traditional POV of those you label “pulpit sensationalists”, “those who are asleep (spiritually)”, “spiritually drunken on men’s doctrines”, those who attend to the “doctrine directly from Satan’s host”, etc. I’m not sure if I have ever met any of these errant persons, but based on your warning, I’m sure to watch-out for them now.

I must admit I am not educated sufficiently to understand how God might surreptitiously use the word we translate as “tribulation” to actually mean “Peace, not war". Maybe it is evident only to the elite. In the over twenty occurrences it appears in my translation, the original word, and the English word always seem to carry the idea of “affliction”, “distress”, “trouble” and “calamity”, so your inference is difficult for a simple-minded man like myself to grasp. I now need to revisit all those references of “tribulation” and, based on the consistency of God’s word I have come to expect, I must now read them to mean “Peace”. As when David plead with King Saul:

And indeed, as your life was valued much this day in my eyes, so let my life be valued much in the eyes of the LORD, and let Him deliver me out of all “Peace?”." (1 Samuel 26:24)

Or when Jesus taught His disciples of “the sign of His coming, and of the end of the age" He said:

“For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then they will deliver you up to “peace?” and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. (Matthew 24:7-9)

I realize this is not what you are actually preaching, but it is what your title, and your sermon implies. With so much Biblical evidence stacked in favor of an impending time of affliction, distress, and calamity – namely tribulation, surely you are not suggesting that it will never happen, are you?

I don’t want to be disagreeable, but I also want to be firmly honest: based on what I’m reading, your assertations sound much more like “pulpit sensationalizing” than anything I have heard in the past, (I’m sure I have not heard everything, and I admit my personal perceptions are not always suitable for others). Also, I don’t know you personally, so I admit I am not qualified to make any kind of character evaluations, but, I do know, and have been warned about the “accuser of the brethren”; I know he is that “…great dragon”, that “serpent of old”, called “the Devil” and “Satan”, the one “who deceives the whole world” (Revelation 12:9-10). He, all by himself, is “the accuser of our brethren” so we don’t need to assist him in his dastardly work (IMHO). I am aware enough to watch for his tactics, and to “resist” him (James 4:7). “Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar (Romans 3:4).

Thanx for sharing your POV. I’ll continue to read your sermons on here, but I must tell you, I’m doing it with one hand on the door knob.

KP

1 Like
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[quote=“KPuff, post:4, topic:20067”]
@DavyP
I read, with interest, your post because I was intrigued by the title

“Coming Tribulation: Peace, not war”

I advise with initial Bible study, to not get caught up in word fallacy that leaves the actual flow of the Bible Scripture. There’s time for that later in cases where God gives more info with names, places, and idioms and expressions. A study just on the word tribulation is not going to reveal this matter of the Antichrist coming to power over the world using peace and prosperity. Daniel 8 about the coming Antichrist as that “king of fierce countenance” and Daniel 11 as that “vile person” is one of the strongest Scripture proofs of the Antichrist at the end using peace and prosperity at the end of this world to destroy souls.

You do realize the above is an attempt to ADD or TAKE AWAY from Bible Scripture, don’t you? You cannot just impose the word peace in those Scripture in attempt to change their meaning.

Now I told you where to find the main Bible Scripture that shows the final Antichrist at the end of this world will use Peace to destroy many, and that craft will prosper by his hand. It’s in the Book of Daniel. And Apostle Paul confirmed that is how the deceived will be acting for the time of “great tribulation” as per 1 Thessalonians 5 when he said they would be claiming, “Peace and safety”, and then (at the end of the trib) a “sudden destruction” would come upon them.

And I also repeated what Lord Jesus said in Matthew 24:6 about the “end”, that as long as we hear of wars and rumors of war, THAT THE END IS NOT YET. That “end” being the time of “great tribulation.” And it means the “end” will not be about wars and rumors of war.

Lot of preachers leave off what Jesus said there that “the end is not yet.” That’s why we don’t often hear them teaching God’s Word about the trib being a time of world peace and prosperity presented by the coming Antichrist-false Messiah. Yet that world peace and prosperity movement the coming Antichrist will offer is what will make the coming tribulation a “great tribulation”, a time on earth that has never been before, nor will ever be again (like Jesus said).

And if you listen to the preachers pushing the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture theory of man, they are the ones who treat the word “tribulation” in the fleshy sense as a time of all out war, chaos, and destruction. Nope, not what God’s Word teaches for the time of “great tribulation”. Instead, the wars, famines, pestilences, nation against nation, Jesus said is the “beginning of sorrows”, and is NOT the actual time of “great tribulation.” Jesus showed that when the “abomination of desolation” is setup in a stone temple in Jerusalem, quoted from Daniel 11:31, that… is when there will be “great tribulation”. Why? Because that is when the false-Messiah who will play our Lord Jesus Christ will show up in Jerusalem and claim to be God (as per 2 Thess.2). So is one who is deceived and believes on that first supernatural one coming working the great signs and wonders Jesus warned us about, is that mistaken belief on that false one not a real ‘tribulation’ upon one’s soul? You bet it will be! That’s is what Satan is coming after at the “end”, people’s souls.

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Many Christian brethren will be deceived by the coming pseudo-Christ that Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul warned us about. That is actually what Paul’s great falling away (apostasy) in 2 Thessalonians 2 is about. It has not happened yet today. It will be caused by that coming false-Messiah working great signs, wonders, and miracles that will deceive the whole world into believing he is God, except Christ’s elect will not believe it, as Jesus told us to not believe it per Matthew 24:23-26.

If your Church is not teaching this matter from Bible Scripture, because it is indeed written, then your soul could be in danger when that false-Christ shows up in Jerusalem working those miracles, because many will wrongly believe it is our Lord Jesus. And if brethren are scared with me saying that, thinking that I’m trying to keep brethren from believing Christ’s future return, then it only shows they don’t know enough of their Bible to realize I’m not trying to fool anyone, but that this warning to Christ’s Church is clearly written of in God’s Word.

I can assure you, I am not pushing ‘sensationalism’. The warning I’m giving about the coming false-Messiah is directly from Bible Scripture (Daniel 11 about the “vile person” who places the “abomination of desolation” in a stone temple in Jerusalem at the end of this world, the “king of fierce countenance” of Daniel 8 that will use Peace and prosperity to fool the whole world into worshiping him in place of God (Christ). The “man of sin” Apostle Paul warned that will cause the great falling away (apostasy), which he also called a “strong delusion”, the Rev.13:11 “another beast” that’s to have two horns like a lamb (Jesus), but speaks as a “dragon”, another title for Satan per Rev.12:9).

The sensationalism that others preach that I point to are things like, “you don’t want to be here for the tribulation, it’s going to be a time of all out WWIII and chaos, murdering Christians left and right, wars, famines, etc. You want to be RAPTURED before all that happens like Jesus taught!” Thing is, Lord Jesus NEVER taught a rapture prior to the “great tribulation”. He taught just the opposite (Matthew 24:29-31).

But those fake pre-trib preachers and followers really throw out a big sensational spill of tribulation falsehoods designed to SCARE brethren in Christ to follow their false pre-trib rapture. Tim LaHaye even wrote a 13 book “Left Behind” series of pushing sensationalism pushing the false pre-trib rapture theory. The irony is that fleeing to the first supernatural Messiah that appears in Jerusalem, thinking he will be our Lord Jesus, is… what the coming “great tribulation” will be about. Lord Jesus comes later, to destroy that false one to end that “strong delusion”. That’s what Paul said in 2 Thess.2.

I really hope you are not… insinuating that I am assisting Satan in his dastardly work. Take my challenge. Look up those Bible Scriptures I have given, and check me out, I dare you. And until you do, you have NO RIGHT to even insinuate that what I’m preaching is of the devil!

You would do better with one hand in your Bible, open to the Scriptures I’m telling you about, instead of wanting to contradict what those Bible Scriptures teach.

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Mr. @DavyP

OK, I admit, I completely failed to communicate; I surely failed to garner enough of your attention to be heard. That’s on me. Let me try again, but slower, and simpler.

When I said: “I read, with interest, your post because I was intrigued by the title: “Coming Tribulation: Peace, not war”, I meant it. I read your article carefully, so I would understand your point of view. I really think I accomplished that; I really think I understand what you are preaching. To demonstrate my understanding, I stated that I agreed with you in that your POV is substantially different than traditional points of view. I heard you. I understood what you were saying. I didn’t disagree, or even comment on your well-documented, well-organized, and well-rehearsed perspective. You demonstrated your passionate stance quite comprehensively. I get it.

Like all (or most) born-from-above disciples of Jesus, we know there is a time of tribulation in the future. Likewise, we all know that the enemy of God will attempt to woo political allegiance by ushering in a period of peace, and a sense of prosperity; the “vile person” who will “come in peaceably, and seize the kingdom by intrigue" that you reminded us of. We all know “where to find” these details in our bibles. We are assured of these future facts through faith, by the testimony of The Word of God. I didn’t comment, or refute you on any of these facts. We may not all agree on details, but we are not all ignorant of the facts.

What I did want to understand better was why, rather than accepting both “a time of tribulation” and “a time of peace” will occur, you seem to be displacing “the time of tribulation” with a time of “peace and prosperity”, as if only one will occur. You seemed to be saying the time of peace is real but the impending tribulation is not; you seemed to be saying when the bible speaks of a time of tribulation, it is actually speaking of a time of peace. I was sure you were NOT trying to communicate that, which is why I used the silly example of substituting the word “peace” for the word “tribulation” in several passages. Not because it was my erroneous “attempt to ADD or TAKE AWAY from Bible”, as you accused me, but to demonstrate that where the word tribulation does occur in the Bible, I have never found it to mean “peace”. Your accusation of me of “ADDING or TAKING AWAY” is ironic, because you completely missed that I was saying the exact same thing to you. That:

I was pointing out that your post read like this is what you were trying to do, but I was sure that is NOT what you were trying to communicate. I was seeking your clarification.

Lastly, when I reminded us all that our enemy is known as “the accuser of the brethren”, I was not inferring your personal eschatology is in league with the devil; I was not accusing you of false teaching. I agree with you that I “… have NO RIGHT to even insinuate that what you’re preaching is of the devil!” as you say; I have no right to accuse the brethren. No disagreement there.

I was bringing attention to repeated examples of accusing the brethren I find frequently in your posts, hoping you would hear my brotherly admonishment, and seek The Lord and His wisdom in this area. In the post I was responding to you accused God’s people, our brethren, of being “pulpit sensationalists”, “asleep (spiritually)”, “spiritually drunken on men’s doctrines”, ones who attend to the “doctrine directly from Satan’s host”, etc. This fruit does not seem to come from a good tree. When you try to get a point across, it is not only unnecessary to demean others by calling them “fake pre-trib preachers” and the like, but that form of name-calling is actually ineffective and counter productive to your cause. Nothing stops up ears faster than unsubstantiated accusations. Like this one:

This is a great example of an unsubstantiated accusation of the brethren. I urge you to reconsider.

If you still feel you are not “accusing the brethren”, I’ll never say another word about it.

Regarding your personal standpoints on eschatology, I have no need to comment. You are heard and understood.
KP

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The tribulation is the wrath of God. It will begin with chaos because of all the people disappearing. Things will have to get back to some level of normal because of the seven year covenant with many. It’s not a peace agreement like many people think. The great tribulation starts halfway through when Satan declares himself God. The Antichrist will be Muslim.

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I read everything you said, but I still don’t buy into all that “your point of view” slogans. If what I preach is God’s Word as written, then it is impossible for it to simply be ‘my’ point of view. It’s instead God’s view in HIS WORD, not mine. There’s a major difference. For example, if I were to preach a pre-trib rapture instead of staying with what Lord Jesus said in Matt.24:29-31 that His coming to gather His saints will be after… the tribulation, then I would be preaching ‘my’… view by following men’s pre-trib rapture, and not His Word which is opposite of a pre-trib rapture. Do you not grasp this difference?

Then I must assume that you will actually check out the Bible Scriptures I referenced, and then come to understand I was not… simply preaching ‘my’ point of view, but that of The Lord’s as written. Nor am I claiming to be prophet either, so please don’t think that. We have God’s Word which already has everything laid out. It’s simply a matter of self-discipline with study and asking God for understanding in it.

Yet many brethren are totally ignorant of those Biblical facts, and are ready to fly away to the first supernatural Messiah that shows up in Jerusalem.

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Mr. @DavyP

When I used the phrase, “point of view” I did not intend it to be pejorative; I did not mean to offend you. I only used the phrase because there are other points of view on eschatology, and I was simply referencing yours without ever suggesting yours is incorrect. Everyone has a point of view, some are correct and some are in error; and having a point of view does not necessarily mean you are in error. I understand that you don’t see it this way, and that you “still don’t buy into all that “your point of view” slogans”. I now understand that you want me to accept that what you say as the same as what the Bible says, and everything I hear from others is just “man’s point of view”. I get your position, loud and clear.

I appreciate that you say understanding truth is “simply a matter of self-discipline with study and asking God for understanding in it.” That is my understanding too, that is also my personal practice as a disciple of Jesus. I personally know many good people who also have self-discipline, study diligently, and ask God for understanding. I also witness how The Holy Spirit does what He says He will do, and helps me, and them, with understanding Truth.

You say:

You may be correct, I don’t know. But, I do know accusing the brethren of “ignorance” and “spiritual naiveite” is not really our commission; it’s not what our savior sent us to do. Accusing the brethren of not understanding the Bible as well as you do in pejorative terms is not patient teaching, it’s not sound testimony, nor is it modeling a life of living the gospel. Do you see what I’m saying?

KP

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I realized what you were trying to do with inserting the word ‘peace’. I’m not that daft. I still do not agree we should do that though, for the sake of not confusing the new babe in Christ.

OK, concerning the Biblical meaning of what the coming “great tribulation” will be about, this is not my personal “point of view”, it is God’s Word as written.

  1. Firstly, one must understand the word ‘tribulation’ does not have to mean all out war, famine, pestilence, physical persecutions, etc. I referenced what Lord Jesus said in Matt.24:6 that as long as we hear of wars and rumors of war, to not be troubled, but “the end is not yet.” How then can folks hap-hazardly just assign the tribulation being about war since by that Matt.24:6 Jesus showed the “end” will not… be about war?

  2. Since Jesus said the “end” of this world will not be about war and rumors of war, then what is… the other choice? A time of world peace.

  3. Per Daniel 8:23-25, that “king of fierce countenance” is the coming Antichrist/false-Messiah which states he will destroy many using PEACE, and that craft will prosper by his hand (KJV).

In Christ’s Olivet discourse of Matthew 24, many make the mistake of thinking these following verses are great tribulation timing, when they are not…

Matt 24:4-8
4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

Those events happen as the “beginning of sorrows”, not the actual time of great tribulation just yet.

Here below is when the actual time of “great tribulation” will begin…

Matt 24:15-23
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, “Lo, here is Christ, or there”; believe it not.
KJV

By Lord Jesus quoting from Daniel 11 about the ending of the Jew’s sacrifices and placing of the “abomination of desolation” at the temple, He thus made that a sign for the very end of this world, for the time of “great tribulation.” It means today’s unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem will build their 3rd temple for that coming “vile person” (Antichrist) of Daniel 11 to sit in and play Christ.

Thus the “great tribulation” by all these Scripture pointers strongly reveals the tribulation will be a SPIRITUAL tribulation upon one’s soul, and will affect the two groups of Revelation 13:8 differently. Those whose names are not written, will be deceived and will bow in worship to the coming pseudo-Christ Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul warned us about. That is what Paul’s “strong delusion” and great falling away (apostasy) of 2 Thess.2 is about. Then Christ’s elect whose names are written, will be persecuted for rejecting that false Messiah that comes first, and some of us will be delivered up to give a Witness for Jesus with allowing The Holy Spirit to speak through us (See Mark 13).

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When I am just speculating, I state so. Simple reasoning in God’s written Word is not speculation though, but many make out like it is. For example, in that Matthew 24:6 verse where Jesus said we’d hear of wars and rumors and war, but that the end is not yet, one could speculate like crazy as to what He meant by “the end”. But with keeping the flow of the Chapter, and the rest of witnesses about the end elsewhere in God’s Word, our reasoning should convince us that He was pointing to the coming “great tribulation” He was preparing to teach later in that same Chapter.

I strongly disagree, because if what you say about that were true, then we would not see all the REBUKE that Lord Jesus and Apostle Paul especially, gave those who deserved it for teaching the commandments of men instead of God’s actual Word. The New Testament is full of those rebukes. Paul even said to rebuke the sinner in front of the congregation, so that others may also fear (See 1 Timothy 5:20).

Ideas like let’s just let each person have their ‘own’ views of what The Bible teaches, and have peace amongst us, are of the devil. Jesus did not promise peace on earth during this present world, but instead division…

Luke 12:51-53
51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.
53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
KJV

That is why Lord Jesus revealed in Mark 13 that His elect will be delivered up even by deceived loved ones. So as close as we are today to the end of this world, it’s getting terribly late to decide who we are going to listen to and follow. There’s not enough time to spoon-feed the lazy brethren who won’t study for themselves. Those instead need a wake up shock before… they are caught in the coming false-Messiah trap.

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Strong words here, don’t you think @DavyP? Especially…

…that there are four major views of the Tribulation commonly discussed in Christian eschatology, although the terminology and subdivisions vary:

Pre-Tribulationism - The Church is raptured before the Tribulation. The Tribulation is primarily understood as a future period of divine judgment, often identified with Daniel’s seventieth week.
Mid-Tribulationism - The Church is raptured in the middle of the Tribulation, usually after 3½ years.
Pre-Wrath - The Church remains through much of the Tribulation but is raptured before the outpouring of God’s eschatological wrath. This is distinct from classic mid-Trib.
Post-Tribulationism - The Church remains on earth through the Tribulation and is gathered to Christ in connection with His visible Second Coming.

But there is an important distinction, these are views concerning the timing of the rapture in relation to the Tribulation, not necessarily four different interpretations of what the Tribulation itself is.

…that there are also broader eschatological frameworks that produce different understandings of the Tribulation:

Futurism - the Tribulation is predominantly a future event.
Historicist - the Tribulation and related prophecies unfold progressively through church history.
Preterism - much or all of the Tribulation prophecy was fulfilled in the first century, particularly around AD 70.
Idealism - the Tribulation imagery represents recurring spiritual realities and conflict between Christ’s kingdom and evil rather than one narrowly defined seven-year period.
Eclectic approaches - combine elements of the above.

And then there is a very important question that often gets overlooked: Is Scripture actually teaching a distinct seven-year “Tribulation period”? Daniel 9:24–27 gives us the seventy weeks, Matthew 24 speaks of “great tribulation” (Matt. 24:21), and Revelation contains its own sequence of judgments. Whether these should all be identified as one future seven-year period is an interpretive conclusion, not something we should simply assume.

You are aware of this?

J.

14

Unlike your blatant arrogance in attempting to clarify for everyone- I guess that would include Jesus Himself- I believe you only got half right. Let’s talk about it. Although I doubt you will be open to actually learning the Truth. You correctly identify the first half of the 70th Week of Daniel as a time characterized by diplomatic treaties, false peace, and global deception. However, you overlook the dramatic midpoint pivot explicitly laid out in Scripture, where that false peace shatters into what Jesus explicitly named the “Great Tribulation.”

The prophetic timeline in Scripture is anchored around 7 years (often called Daniel’s 70th Week). The timeline breaks down precisely at the 3.5-year mark (42 months / 1,260 days).

The core foundation for a midpoint shift comes directly from the Prophet Daniel. Daniel 9:27 (KJV):

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [7 years]: and in the midst of the week [3.5 years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate…"

Yes. The Antichrist enters as a peacemaker, confirming a 7-year treaty (“covenant”) allowing religious practices such as temple sacrifices to resume. This is the “peace and safety” that you talk about.

Exactly halfway through (3.5 years), he breaks the treaty, halts sacrifices, and sets up the “Abomination of Desolation.” Jesus Pinpoints the Start of the “Great Tribulation”: Matthew 24

In the Olivet Discourse, Jesus explicitly connects Daniel’s midpoint event to the official start of the Great Tribulation. He does not call the entire period the Great Tribulation; he marks its beginning at a very specific event.

Matthew 24:15, 21 (KJV)

“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:).”

“For THEN shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”

Jesus says that when the Abomination occurs (which Daniel 9:27 places at the 3.5-year mark), then the unprecedented trouble begins.

If the entire period were one of peace and prosperity, as you claim, Jesus would not warn believers to flee into the mountains immediately upon seeing this sign.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

But pray ye that your flight is not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened." Matthew 24:15-22

The New Testament consistently measures the second half of this period using three different time units, all equating to 3.5 years: 42 months (Revelation 11:2, 13:5), 1,260 days (Revelation 11:3, 12:6)

“A time, and times, and half a time” (Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7, Revelation 12:14)

Revelation 13:5-7 (KJV):

“And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

During these final 42 months (the second 3.5 years), the facade of “peace and prosperity” vanishes. The Antichrist demands divine worship 2 Thessalonians 2:4.

“Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”

He enforces an economic lockdown (the Mark of the Beast - Revelation 13:16–17.

“And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

He wages open physical war against believers who refuse to bow to him Revelation 13:7.

You cited 1 Thessalonians 5:3

“For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

However, you stop before analyzing what happens after that statement is made.

“Peace and Safety” is the setup (First 3.5 years). “Sudden Destruction” is the midpoint turning point (Transition into the second 3.5 years).

When the world is lulled into believing a global leader has solved war and poverty, the trap snaps shut. The false peace doesn’t last through the end. It is destroyed in an instant, ushering in the severe judgments outlined in Revelation (the seals, trumpets, and bowls).

I hope this helps with your misreading of Scripture and leads you into a place of truth. I even used the KJV, which I often choose not to since we have many more accurate translations today.

Be blessed, be a blessing.

Peter

15

Mr. @DavyP

Let me begin with this.
When I explained that my use of the term “point of view” was not meant pejoratively, you responded with this:

I was not talking about “speculating”. Maybe you are conflating my phrase “point of view” with “speculation”. I do not see them as the same thing. I won’t try to explain the difference here; I will only try to understand how you are using the term “speculation”. I appreciate that you are “not speculating”. Even so, I couldn’t help notice, even in this response, you inserted an unsubstantiated accusation “God’s written Word is not speculation though, but many make out like it is.”

When I explained how accusing the brethren was not part of our calling, you said:

First of all, no one said “let’s just let each person have their ‘own’ views of what The Bible teaches and have peace amongst us”. This IS an unsubstantiated accusation. You are wildly swinging your sword at a nonexistent enemy here. Nonexistent enemies are easy to defeat, but there is no glory in doing so.

Second, A “rebuke” is not at all the same as an “unsubstantiated accusation of the brethren”. A rebuke is what I’m doing with you, and what you have noticed Jesus did with Jewish leaders, and Paul did it with wayward brothers. Rebukes are personal, address a current issue that is evident, demonstrates the truth, motivated from love, and focus on exposing and bringing an end to the error. Jesus rebuked disciples and non-disciples alike at times. Jesus even rebuked a storm. Jesus never made false or unsubstantiated accusations about anyone.

Unsubstantiated accusations of the brethren are impersonal, derogatory remarks meant to demean, disgrace, or ridicule a person or group. Unsubstantiated accusations about God’s people are what the enemy of God is known for, and why he is called “the accuser of the brethren”; it is why we refer to him as “Satan”.

From my own personal experience, rebukes and false accusations seem to have different purposes. Rebukes are a personal matter, usually to a specific person, and done in gentleness, patience, and love intending to elevate The Truth. False accusations are impersonal, unsubstantiated, and are designed to elevate the status of the accuser. Let’s be done with false accusations, and be willing to rebuke specific error when we encounter it.

Finally, again, you made this unsubstantiated broad accusation:

While I appreciate your noble intention to warn those who are unaware of their peril, I doubt many can hear past being inappropriately called “lazy”, and “unwilling to study”. I would very much appreciate hearing your warnings about eschatology without having to occlude your message with unwise unsubstantiated accusations of the brethren. Do you think you could do that? Do you think you could explain the truth you know without the crutch of degrading others in the process? I’d like to read that sermon.

KP

1 Like
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I admire your Spirit led patience with the brother KP.

Stay strong eis Messiah Yeshua. I think he blocked me.

J.

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Who cares that men’s doctrines teach about four different views of the tribulation, there’s only one correct view, and that’s the view that God’s written Word declares. And it’s not that difficult to know which one that is for one who studies their Bible like they are supposed to. Thus I see your opening statement above just an in-road towards the doctrines of men, and not about rightly dividing God’s Word. And yes, I am familiar with those different seminary views you mention, and I didn’t even have to attend seminary to know about them. One who checks what God’s Word says easily will know their differences and whether or not they are actually written in God’s Word.

You know what’s funny? I have been accused of following each one of those categories of the doctrines of men at one time or another, just because of my staying strictly within Bible Scripture as written. So all you are presenting is really just a waste of time.

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You sound educated enough to understand what the word speculation means. I don’t think I need to define it for you. Go to Websters if you need help with that.

The reason I singled out that “point of view” phrase when aimed at what someone is teaching directly from God’s written Word, is because that phrase is often used as an in-road to the doctrines of men. There, I said that before, but I guess you missed it. And thus that’s why I disagreed with each believer having their ‘own’ POV in God’s Word, when Paul said we should all be saying the same thing (1 Cor.1:10). So are you and I having the same POV? Apparently not, otherwise you would not have brought up such an idea, unless you are just so used to throwing that POV phrase out that you aren’t aware of yourself doing it. Regardless of which though, I still must point it out.

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You are not justified with trying to claim I was accusing the brethren, of which ‘some’ are pushing false doctrines of the devil, and not The Word of God. I will continue to do that, with God and His Word backing me as I am called. And the FALSE Pre-trib Rapture Theory is one of those doctrines of the devil that is nowhere written in God’s Word which a small group of men in 1800’s Great Britain started. Christ’s Church held to a Post-tribulational coming of our Lord Jesus and gathering of His Church for over 1,800 years, which is what is actually written. But you say that is me wrongly accusing brethren which those in Christ are not called to do? How then will the faithful brethren who love The LORD know the difference if false doctrines that do not align with God’s written Word are not shown to them?

So no, I don’t accept your socialist interpretations of what Biblical rebuke is.

20

Oh, no… I have actually had brethren admit to me personally that they have been lazy in study of God’s Word, and need to get into it more. Those who heard me say it got the message, and that was my point, even though no one is perfect in study of all of God’s Word.

I even had one brother ask me about Book by Book, line upon line Bible coverage, if I knew a Church that did that. I recommended they ask their Sunday School teacher if they would do that. He did ask, and his Sunday School teach laughed at him and said something like, “You must think we have all the time in the world!” Maybe you missed God’s lesson to the Jews in Isaiah 28 about this, as God used their own words against them with how they approached study of His Word; they mocked the idea of precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, and there a little, God having made that the correct method of studying His Word, so they would do what?