Common figure of speech?

MrE,
“There’s no wiggle room in your premise above.”

Of course not, there isn’t meant to be.

re: “How do YOU account for that third night?”

That is irrelevant to this topic. But if you were to ask in a different topic, I would say with a 5th day of the week crucifixion.

re: “It seems like you are insisting it never happened.”

I don’t see how it could have happened with the notion of a Friday crucifixion, and with the count of the 3 days and the 3 nights starting at the moment the Messiah was placed in the tomb.

Then Jesus was mistaken, misspoken, or both. Or, maybe this whole thread was intended to suggest as you now say-- a 5th day crucifixion, on Thursday rather than the traditional Friday.

What evidence to you bring to support that premise?

The Bible explicitly states, in all four Gospels, that Jesus was crucified on preparation day-

Matthew 27:62
Mark 15:42
Luke 23:54
John 19:14

Perhaps you are alluding to the possibility of a special sabbath that week and hence two separate days of sabbath preparation. Some in this camp advocate for a Wednesday crucifixion.

All
I see these several points of view, but I am having a difficult time understanding how this discussion, or even our settling on a unified conclusion can positively affect our commission to be The Light to a lost world of darkness. I‘m not criticizing the discussion, I’m actually enjoying it. So much so that I have read treatises by men far more educated on this subject than I am, and yet even among the Christian illuminati, the issue remains unsettled. From your point of view (POV of the reader), does something more important hang on settling this issue?

That notwithstanding, I also wonder how we became so sure of what Jesus was inferring when he used the metaphor “heart of the earth”. He did use a metaphor, and didn’t say …”As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, so The Son of Man will be three days and three nights dead.” Jonah wasn’t dead in the belly of the fish (although I assume he wished for it). What is the commonality between Jonah and Jesus with regard to three days and three nights. Are we married to the idea that “in the heart of the earth” can ONLY mean dead in the tomb? I can imagine other meanings.

ON the journey with y’all
KP

Confidential to rstrats:
I understand, by your several admonishments, that your OP was not to try to get at a conclusion, but rather to ask someone to defend the idea that the “3 days and 3 nights” mentioned by Jesus was just a common figure of speech. (I hope I got that right) I get it; I know that what I have posted, most recently, and previously, is irrelevant to this topic, and for that I apologize.

re: “Then Jesus was mistaken, misspoken, or both. Or, maybe this whole thread was intended to suggest as you now say-- a 5th day crucifixion, on Thursday rather than the traditional Friday.”

No, not for the purpose of this topic.

re: "What evidence to you bring to support that premise? The Bible explicitly states, in all four Gospels, that Jesus was crucified on preparation day-

Matthew 27:62
Mark 15:42
Luke 23:54
John 19:14

Perhaps you are alluding to the possibility of a special sabbath that week and hence two separate days of sabbath preparation. Some in this camp advocate for a Wednesday crucifixion."

Start a new topic and it can be discussed.

That of course is up to you since you’re the one that brought up the issue.

KPuff,
re: “I see these several points of view, but I am having a difficult time understanding how this discussion, or even our settling on a unified conclusion can positively affect our commission to be The Light to a lost world of darkness.”

For the purpose of this topic, it wasn’t really intended to be. I’m simply curious if it was common in the Messiah’s time to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could be.

KPuff,
re: “I understand, by your several admonishments…”

I wouldn’t call them admonishments, but simply a notification that the comments have been for a different issue.

re: “…that your OP was not to try to get at a conclusion…”

Actually, it kinda is, i.e., coming to a conclusion regarding the commonality of saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could be.

re: “I know that what I have posted, most recently, and previously, is irrelevant to this topic, and for that I apologize.”

No need to apologize. It’s apparently on me that the topic was not sufficiently clear as to its issue.

rstrats
No one has mentioned this verse, so I thought it might enter into your thinking on this subject, i.e. was The Apostle Paul also using a common figure of speech when said to the Corinthians:

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve.
1 Corinthians 15:3-5
Thoughts?

Perhaps for a different topic, but I’m afraid not for this one.

Rats! For once I thought I was actually staying within the parameters of the narrow topic you have proffered. I guess I’m still too blind to see the fences. Sorry.

I just don’t see where 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 shows examples of where a daytime or a night time were said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could be.

got it. Thanx for the explanation.

Hi,

1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: KJV

Paul said Jesus rose again on “the third day.”
That should pretty much settle it.
Or are you saying you know more than Paul?

Blessings

Joe,
re: "1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: KJV "

As I said to KPuff, I don’t see where 1 Corinthians 15:3-5 shows examples of where a daytime or a night time were said to be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could be. What do you have in mind?

re: Paul said Jesus rose again on ‘the third day.’ That should pretty much settle it."

Settle what?

re: “Or are you saying you know more than Paul?”

Know more than Paul with regard to what?

Joe,

You have a couple of questions directed to you in the above post.

Perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

@rstrats

Your objection is thoughtful and worth addressing directly, but it collapses under the weight of both linguistic evidence and the inspired text of Scripture itself. Let me show you why the traditional Friday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection fully satisfies the prophecy of being “three days and three nights in the heart of the earth,” when understood according to Hebrew idiom and the verbs chosen in both Testaments.

Matthew 12:40 records Jesus saying, “Just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The Greek verb is ἔσται (estai, “will be”), future indicative of εἰμί (to be), showing His presence in the kardia tēs gēs (“heart of the earth”) during that period. You correctly note that from Friday before sundown to early Sunday morning is part of Friday day, all of Saturday (day and night), and part of Sunday morning — thus touching three days and involving two full nights and parts of two others. The problem you raise hinges on modern literalism rather than ancient Hebrew usage.

In Hebrew thought, a “day and a night” (יוֹם וָלַיְלָה) could mean any part of a calendar day, because the Hebrew verb הָיָה (hayah, “to be”) as used in narrative contexts already shows that partial periods of “being” in a day were counted as the whole day. For example, Genesis 42:17–18: Joseph put his brothers in custody שְׁלֹשֶׁת יָמִים (sheloshet yamim, “three days”), but he released them בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁלִישִׁי (bayyom hashelishi, “on the third day”). Clearly, three days included two full overnights plus part of the third day.

Esther 4:16 is even clearer: she tells Mordecai to fast for שְׁלֹשֶׁת יָמִים לַיְלָה וָיוֹם (“three days, night and day”), yet Esther enters the king’s presence “on the third day” (בַּיּוֹם הַשְּׁלִישִׁי)- the same idiomatic reckoning. The verbs here -צוּמוּ (tzumu, “fast”) and אָבוֹא (avo, “I will go”) -demonstrate action over a period that does not require 72 full hours.

When Jesus said He would “be” ἔσται in the heart of the earth three days and three nights, He was invoking this established Semitic idiom, where part of Friday day counts as day one, Saturday counts fully, and part of Sunday counts as the third. This is not a “colloquial slip,” but deliberate covenantal language echoing the Hebrew Scriptures’ pattern.

You asked for actual examples, here they are: Genesis 42:17–18 and Esther 4:16–5:1 explicitly show that “three days and nights” idiomatically covers less than three full 24-hour periods. Rabbinic literature after the Second Temple likewise maintains this reckoning, e.g., “A day and a night make an onah, and part of an onah is reckoned as a whole” (Jerusalem Talmud, Shabbat 9:3).

Finally, the prophetic typology demands it. The crucifixion occurred on Paraskeuē (Preparation Day, Mark 15:42, Greek verb ἦν [ēn] shows it already was Friday). Jesus was buried before sundown (ἔθηκεν [ethēken], “laid Him” Matt 27:60) and raised on the third day, as He repeatedly predicted (ἐγερθήσεται, egerthēsetai, “He will rise,” Matt 16:21). Paul likewise asserts unambiguously: “He was buried and He has been raised on the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:4, using ἐγήγερται, perfect tense, showing completed and abiding effect).

In summary, you cannot impose a modern Western literalist 72-hour scheme on a Jewish idiom. The verbs chosen in both Testaments — hayah, tzumu, avo, ethēken, egerthēsetai — reveal that Christ truly was in the tomb for three days and three nights, fully satisfying Jonah’s sign and God’s promise. The empty tomb on the first day of the week (Luke 24:1–7) vindicates the covenantal idiom and proclaims the victory of the cross and resurrection. Thus we stand boldly on the Word and rebuke the claim that His own prophecy failed. The Lord’s words did not falter, they were fulfilled exactly as spoken.
SPECIAL TOPIC: THE THIRD DAY.

J.

Johann,

No where in your Genesis reference is anything said with regard to the number of night times to be involved.
As for the Esther account, it might be an example if “three days, night or day” is the same thing as “three days and three nights”. But even if it is, that would still only be one example.