Do You Believe Prayer Works?

General Faith
21

Thanx for this, Johann. Great reference, and I appreciate the AMP attribution, I had not read this passage in that version before.

KP

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22

Do you believe that a child asking his father for something works? Yes

Do you believe that a child asking his father for something always works? No

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23

Yes. The question was why does faith need to be an accepted condition for believing in God (second paragraph)? I can understand if you do not want to debate, or discuss in depth questions/concerns that people like me have about the Christian faith. I realize sometimes there are no answers, but in cases like that I tend to rely on common sense to rationalize. Believe me, I am truly interested in answers or perspectives from Christians like yourself. And I do realize that my approach is more direct than most. I grew up a Christian but over the past 10+ years have slipped to agnostic, which was not part of the plan. I am a very inquisitive person and like to dig deep in discussions. Most Christians I know prefer to stay on the surface and avoid confronting the hard questions, often simply passing along scripture or typical canned responses. I get it. I’ve heard it all before. Thank you, though, for engaging in the discussion with me.

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24

One thing is to quote Scripture, quite another is to actually live within the power and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Since you don’t appreciate “canned sardines”

Right?

J.

25

The concept of answering prayer is fascinating. I believe that whatever you ask for is always granted; however, I also believe our minds’ design limits our ability to truly ask. I frequently observe instances where individuals claim that their prayers remain unanswered, leading them to become frustrated and abandon their faith. Even when scripture says if you have faith as little as a mustard seed, all things are possible. But apparently, no one has ever planted mustard. It may very well start out as a tiny seed, but within that tiny case lies an immense tree. A pastor I used to know often said, “We all know how many seeds there are in an apple, but only God knows how many apples there are in a seed.” I see this as being similar to faith in prayer; we may voice our prayers and hope that this time they will be answered, and they always are. You expect the result to be what you asked for. You are trying to dictate a plan to God, treating Him like a genie by specifying exactly what you want. Thus, your prayer seems unanswered, and you never see it manifest. But when you see that God is the universe’s creator and not a spirit in a bottle, you ask for things based on his heart. (This is key to praying in terms of the heart of Jesus and the Father.) Then yes, of course, prayer is answered, and always to a greater abundancy than you can ever imagine.

”Believe it is possible to solve your problem. Tremendous things happen to the believer. Believe it, the answer will come. It will.”

God may change your job, finances, commute, or social circle, or he may put people in your life. And you may see them as a struggle, an inconvenience, or a challenge. However, if you reflect on the changes, you will find that your prayers are embedded within those adjustments to your course. I firmly believe we see our prayers as just popping out of the ether, but God sees our prayers as reshaping the very essence of the universe with us in that reshaping. I cannot imagine the intricate details that God would use to move mountains. However, I believe that while the act of moving mountains may seem as simple as a wave of God’s hand, He carefully plans the steps we must take to achieve that goal. We within that mountain are smaller than a grain of sand on that slope, and to have the ear of the entity that reshapes mountains is a glorious gift.

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26

That was a lovely answer. Thank you.

I think perhaps you’re a little frustrated, and I get it. The Bible talks about those without the Spirit find the message of the cross foolish. It’s difficult to explain spiritual things in a material world. Jesus used the everyday in His explanations. He used what people already knew about-seeds, leaven, agriculture etc. in His parables and teaching. He ‘likened’ the Kingdom of God to physical things because there are no words in our language to describe spiritual things, unless the Holy Spirit gives that revelation. Then our understanding is internal and the words we use to describe our faith are often taken from God’s own word.

And it’s ok to not understand something. Although I’ve grown in my understanding, there is still that which I don’t understand. It’s a process and it’s a walk.

I thought I answered this. It’s a hard question and I don’t know that the Bible answers it directly. I can give some thoughts, but they are just my thoughts. Earlier on in the Bible it talks about Abraham; the father of the Jewish nation. It says, “Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.” Believing God is what makes us righteous in His sight. It’s not what we do or don’t do, or following the law to the letter. It’s our belief in Him. But of course, the result or our belief will make its way into our character and actions.

If God made Himself known by appearing to us and speaking directly to us, then we wouldn’t need faith. We would just believe what our ears and eyes told us. Then what? We would know our Creator. We would have a God who is sovereign and rules over us. Some would believe He’s a good God and some would rebel. Some would act out of obedience because what other choice is there, and some would rebel against Him and say we don’t need Him. Not everyone would believe Him. We see that does happen during the millennium period. God is known and yet towards the end of that age, some people rebel.

God has chosen faith in Him and the Lord Jesus as the means of becoming His child. It’s really the only thing we can give to an almighty God. Works for the sake of works doesn’t cut it. He loves us and desires that we love Him too. Not by force, but because we’ve chosen to believe Him and want to love Him. Everything else in the Christian life happens once we’ve made that decision. He then gives us the Holy Spirit to reside within us, and then we know. We know that the choice of p2 utting our faith in Him is the truth.

I once shared the gospel with my terminally sick aunt. Her answer was that she wished she could believe. So I told her the story in Mark 9 where the father’s son was healed by Jesus. When Jesus said that all things were possible to the one who believed, the father answered, “Lord, I believe. Help my unbelief.” Nothing further was said, but the boy was healed. I suggested she do the same thing. Ask the Lord to help her with her unbelief.

It is God’s will that everyone should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9) but not everyone will. Repentance is not about a change of behavior but a change of mind. That’s what we’re asked to do when we repent. We change our mind about who God is and ask Him to be in our life and heart.

I hope I did ok here in answering your question.

27

That is certainly true.

28

Sometimes. God’s silence is the answer. Perhaps you are asking the wrong questions.

“You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.” James 4:3

“And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words.” Matthew 6:7

There are right ways to pray, “according to his will,” we can guarantee we will receive. I know when it is God who answers my prayers because, simply put, there is no other way.

Peter

29

Ahhh @Truthseek

You said:

…and…

In these “confessions” (above) hides the reason you are having no success in getting satisfying answers to your questions. (1) relying on common sense, and (2) having no personal relationship with Jesus, not the kind of intimate personal relationship Jesus describes as essential “sonship”.

Jesus is your starting block, and there is no other way of obtaining factual spiritual information. No one can hand you the answers you seek, self-reliance and common sense will always come up short too. Even though you “grew up Christian” you were most likely only under Christian influence, you were never a Christian yourself, otherwise you would not be an agnostic today. I hope that makes some sense.

The Gospel is freely offered to give you what you need to know to make the first step into understanding the answers you seek. Any other method or effort will simply leave you where you find yourself at this moment. The gospel is the “good news” that answers the bad. The bad news is that mankind is unable to live the kind of life, or produce the kind of works that are pure enough to make a relationship with Holy (perfect) God possible. Holiness cannot relate to unholiness; to mix them is to make both unholy in the same way mixing clean and dirty water makes them both dirty. God will remain pure, Holy, undefiled and seperated from unholiness.

The Good news is that Holy God has gracioulsy made provision for you to become Holy; morally pure and legally blameless. You can’t do that, but He promises that He has,and it is available to you! That provision is Jesus, who took the wrath of God against your unholiness upon Himself and paid for it through His own sacrificial death on the Cross of Calvary. When you come to the realization that you are not holy, and your unholiness secured your own death; sin separated you from a eternal relationship with Holy God, you will call on the only salvation offered for you; you will call on Jesus and plead with Him to cleanse you from ALL unrighteousness. Jesus is the only gate.

Once you have passed through that gate, you may not need this forum to help you with your answers. You will receive them the same way all Christians receive them, by taking God at His word (faith). Until you can take God at His word, your answers will always elude you. I think even your “common sense” will tell you taking God at His word (faith) is essential to understanding things only God knows. Faith is not a “requirement” in the way you are thinking of it, faith is a gift offered to you to bring you into understanding that can be gained no other way. Truth is accessed by no other means than faith.

I hope this offers you some help on your quest.

Trusting Jesus

KP

30

I do agree that the concept of prayer is fascinating. In my experiences, the response from Christians with regard to prayers is pretty much always the same. Prayers are always answered but sometimes the answer is not what we wanted. This is the standard textbook response. We’ve all seen it. You really can’t lose when you take this position. If you get what you asked for you will say “look He answered my prayer”, and if you don’t you simply say that God chose to answer it in a different way. If you look at it with an open mind it’s clear that there is no indication that anything was done by God. Of course, this applies only to prayers that involve asking for something (e.g. healing of someone) and not those that focus on just talking to God for the sake of trying to build a closer relationship.

You mention the instance where someone believes their prayer was not answered and, as a result, may abandon their faith. Obviously, from the Christian’s position, this person will go to hell for abandoning the faith. He will go to hell because he felt his prayers were not answered. I really struggle with this. It just doesn’t pass the common sense test. Why would a loving god allow for a scenario like this? That’s a rhetorical question, as I believe He would not. I realize your point of stating this was not to call attention to the fate of such individuals but I felt the opportunity to use it to reinforce my belief that most Christians fail to go beyond the surface of things, instead accepting without actually questioning. I can tell you as an outsider to the Christian faith, this does not help in trying to bring people to believe in God.

You also talk about God playing a role in some struggles with respect to job, finances, commute, or social circles, stating (or implying) that He has put these in front of us for a reason that may not be obvious. You seem positively convinced of this. I, as you may already suspect, do not support this position. It cannot be proven, and therefore is speculative at best.

You should know that I grew up in a Christian home and was a devoted believer until around 10+ years ago (I am now 64). At that time I began a mission to expand my Christian faith so that I could be in a position to evangelize to non-believers and bring them to Christianity. I prayed often to God to guide me in this endeavor. In order to be successful I felt I needed to take on hard questions and provide solid answers to them. This involved reading many books that supported Christianity as well as those that did not. It required me to identify those tough questions and seek answers. Unfortunately, 10+ years later I find myself fallen further and further away from the Christian faith. I pray almost daily to God to bring me back but I get nothing from him. I will continue seeking answers even if it involves questioning folks like yourself, so please understand I am not simply trying to be difficult on this forum. There is a purpose, however, my hope is very much dwindling. Thanks for your feedback. It is greatly appreciated.

31

Thank you for taking the time to respond. To reiterate, you are saying that the reason I am where I am is because I am relying on common sense and that I do not have a personal relationship with Jesus. Firstly, there is nothing wrong with common sense, in fact to claim that is part of the issue is suspicious in and of itself. The Bible is full of common sense statements. Second, do you believe I did not have a personal relationship with Jesus when I set out on my mission to spread the word of God? Please expand on that accusation.

32

OOoh, @TruthSeek,
I made no accusation, at least I didn’t intend to. I’m so sorry you received it that way. I only repeated the claims you made about yourself, at least that was what I was trying to do. I apologize for any offense.

I didn’t intend to imply there is something wrong with “common sense”. Not at all. I confess I employ common sense myself, liberally. There is nothing wrong with it, as far as it goes. It is just “unreliable” as a way to access metaphysical truths since the metaphysical realm doesn’t operate by the same set of rules. I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. What is common sense to you or I in this world may not be very common or very “sensical” in the other. You need “other-sense” so-to-speak, (which is quite uncommon), to access those other truths. This becomes clear on the other side of the gate I spoke of.

I am unaware of your “mission to spread the word of God”. I am only aware of your current acknowledgement that you are “agnostic”. From my perspective, one can go from being an agnostic to being a Christian (it happens all the time), but not the other way around. (It is just a position from my vantage point, and I understand if you don’t share it.)

Didn’t mean to get cause a problem, I was only trying to help.

Peace
KP

33

No worries. I should have said “assessment” instead of “accusation”. My fault for getting defensive. I should know I can bring it on at times.

I stated briefly my mission in the previous reply but will attach it again below. I believe I understand where you were going with your comment about me likely being only under Christian influence growing up and not a true qualified Christian, as there are many that fall under that category. However, I did accept Jesus into my life and maintained a belief in Him, so if that was insufficient then there must be an elevated level that I did not have that would have kept me from falling from the Faith. I would strongly disagree with it, though, since I was so committed to spreading the word during the time of my fall (see story below). I would love for someone to try and explain how something like this could have happened. It sure appears like He wasn’t there for me even though I asked. Thoughts?

Below is the attached brief summary of my story.

I grew up in a Christian home and was a devoted believer until around 10+ years ago (I am now 64). At that time I began a mission to expand my Christian faith so that I could be in a position to evangelize to non-believers and bring them to Christianity. I prayed often to God to guide me in this endeavor. In order to be successful I felt I needed to take on hard questions and provide solid answers to them. This involved reading many books that supported Christianity as well as those that did not. It required me to identify those tough questions and seek answers. Unfortunately, 10+ years later I find myself fallen further and further away from the Christian faith. I pray almost daily to God to bring me back but I get nothing from him. I will continue seeking answers even if it involves questioning folks like yourself, so please understand I am not simply trying to be difficult on this forum. There is a purpose, however, my hope is very much dwindling.

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34

I asked Him to not let me fall from the Faith. Look where I am now. Thoughts?

35

I always took it like I’m covering my basis. I see a problem I’m covering that problem. So maybe if I stand in judgement and he asks me. What did you do? I prayed would be a good answer because that’s all I could do. The things I seen were definitely out of my control. But if they were in my control I would still pray. That I could make it rightesness because if I fail then I would fall! but if my prayer was there. Who’s fault would it be? And who could cast the first stone?

37

Well?

”No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide a way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.” 1 Corinthians 10:13

Let me phrase it using myself. I was saved at 21 years old. Full disclosure, I’m now much older {Smile}. I was going great. Witnessing the supernatural, talking with God, and He was talking to me. I was giving and receiving, planting and sowing, and every aspect of my life was blessed.

What happened? I became comfortable. I became arrogant. I started to commit various sins daily. I fell away, no, no, I didn’t fall away, I walked out the door. What happened? God stopped responding to me. My life quickly went from blessing to curse.

26 years ago now, I found a church in Florida, and slowly started to return. Now married, we started to go together, and we watched the church die because of the pastor’s uh, error. We left and went to one of those mega Churches. Yeah, not for us.

Then I get a text that a new pastor was in town and maybe taking over the old church. I went, met, and became a staff member, and watched the church go from $8.00 in the bank, and 15 regular, well, 15 total people, to over 400 when I was called to NY. All that growth within 7 years.

During my time away, I learned that God does not respond for several possible reasons. One, unforgiveness in my heart. I had a lot of that. Anger in my soul. I had a lot of that. Still working on that, too. Doubt. Along with just plain, outright stubbornness. I found this simple truth: if you are in a state where God cannot use you for His purpose, then why is He going to talk to you? I had to work on myself, pray, and spend time in the Word, just to get back to a relationship with God.

Now married for 20 years, 4 kids, 3 by birth and one by choice. Blessed beyond belief, and in a far better place than I was even back then. Don’t give up @TruthSeek Sometimes, I know it was for me; it is hardest to look in the mirror and see things that we need to change in ourselves.

Peter

38

Excellent way to look at it.

39

I’ve actually heard that view more times than you’d think, and I really do understand it. Prayer can feel unanswered or delayed, and that can mess with your faith.

The Psalms are full of that wrestling/doubt, and yet they keep turning back to trust.

I believe prayer is more than comfort…But it also takes a lot of faith.

So..I get it.

40

Joh_14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Some can be confused by such verses unless one sees what Jesus told his disciples to expect in the kingdom as different that what Christians today can expect. Those of Israel supernaturally changed by God to have the law in their hearts could be expected not to abuse such prayer.

41

This is a clear example of proof texting, as you correctly observed.

“Whatever you ask in My name that will I do” Notice that Jesus claims that He will answer our prayers based on His character. In Act_7:59 Stephen prays to Jesus. In 2Co_12:8 Paul prays to Jesus. In Joh_15:16; Joh_16:23 believers are to address the Father. To pray in Jesus’ name does not involve a magic formula, said at the end of our prayers, but praying in the will and character of Jesus.
This is a good example of the need to consult parallel passages before making dogmatic statements on biblical subjects. One must balance “whatever we ask” with

  1. “in My name” (Joh_14:13-14; Joh_15:7; Joh_15:16; Joh_16:23)
  2. “keep on asking” (Mat_7:7-8; Luk_11:5-13; Luk_18:1-8)
  3. “two agreeing” ( Mat_18:19)
  4. “believing” (Mat_21:22)
  5. “without doubt” (Mar_11:22-24; Jas_1:6-7)
  6. “not selfishly” (Jas_4:2-3)
  7. “keep His commands” (1Jn_3:22)
  8. “according to God’s will” (Mat_6:10; 1Jn_5:14-15)
    The name of Jesus represents His character. It is another way of referring to the mind and heart of Jesus. This phrase appears often in John (cf. Joh_14:13-14; Joh_14:26; Joh_15:16; Joh_16:23-26). The more like Christ one is, the more likely the prayers are to be answered in the affirmative. The worst thing God could do spiritually to most believers is answer their selfish, materialistic prayers. 1Jn_3:22.

Joh_14:13

Context of this remark is to the Apostles/disciples.

J.