Just like what the devil’s servants fruit working is like, that is what you are trying to do with attacking my credibility instead of proving what you claim within God’s written Word. The children of darkness always… revert to personal attacks when they’ve lost an argument, because they don’t really know what God’s written Word says, because God has closed it off to them because of their rebelliousness.
Just like what the devil’s servants fruit working is like, that is what you are trying to do with attacking my credibility instead of proving what you claim within God’s written Word.
Like I asked earlier…are all the lights on over there? I did not attack whatever credibility you think you have, I gave you clear Biblical principles of identification, and you reject them because you care more about defending your bias than you do about truth. That is on you, not me. I also gave you passages of Scripture, contrary to your bogus claim here…and again, you obviously reject them based upon what’s in your head, not what Scripture clearly states. I proved you wrong, and you cannot handle it.
The children of darkness always… revert to personal attacks when they’ve lost an argument, because they don’t really know what God’s written Word says, because God has closed it off to them because of their rebelliousness.
This is why I honestly asked if all the lights are on over there…because I did not lose an argument; I presented facts, and you rejected them without so much as any kind of explanation as to why you rejected them. You appear to only be here to push your bias, and when someone rejects your bias you start coming back with all this “children of darkness” and other nonsense bird droppings. You give a perfect explanation of yourself in the last line.
I would suggest that you present some kind of valid and coherent Biblical facts (if you can think up any) to demonstrate your dribble here…Biblical facts, not personal bias dribble. Thanks.
Have a nice day.
Here is an example of ‘your’… kind of proof:
You said:
Not even ONE Bible Scripture provided in the above to back those items up.
I already explained to you the Mat. 24 passage that you gave, as well as the passage in 1 Thess…and you ignored them.
You do your own homework…take every passage that you think teaches your version of the Rapture, look at the details of the texts in question, and see what they say in honesty - do not protect your bias when you see that it is wrong, or you will get no where.
In what event do people see Christ when He comes?
In what event are believers translated?
In what event do the dead in Christ rise?
In what event does Christ have to send out angels to physically gather people up?
There are two CLEAR events that are identified by what happens in that event; people who are translated do not need angels to pick them up and carry them away; and you cannot have a single event where NO ONE sees Him coming and at the same time EVERYONE living and dead see Him coming. We need to use our brains sometimes.
If you don’t care to examine Scripture for truth, then you should not be making claims out your ears, because you can cause people to end up in eternal fire through those false claims that you never studied in the first place.
Blessings.
Above is your remark you gave about Matthew 24. It definitely is NOT a Scripture that supports your false Pre-trib Rapture theory. You have been taught to ADD to… that Matthew 24:29-31 Scripture by Lord Jesus.
What Lord Jesus actually said there…
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV
There is NO RAPTURE written prior to the tribulation. There is ONLY ONE MORE COMING BY LORD JESUS WRITTEN OF IN ALL OF GOD’S WORD.
And I showed you. But you REJECT the simplicity of what Lord Jesus said and instead follow a bunch of charlatans that have created false doctrines against HIS WORD.
Here is another way to KNOW FOR SURE the future coming of Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 ALIGNS PERFECTLY WITH WHAT APOSTLE PAUL TAUGHT ABOUT JESUS’ COMING AND GATHERING OF HIS CHURCH PER 1 THESSALONIANS 4…
1. In the Matthew 24:29-31 version, Jesus shows when He comes He will gather the saints from where?
“…from one end of heaven to the other.” (Matt.24:31)
That is about Paul’s asleep saints that Jesus gathers from heaven on the day of His coming and brings with Him at His descent to earth. They are already there, and will be resurrected first, Paul says. And that resurrection Jesus showed on the last day of this world, per John 6.
1 Thess 4:13-16
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
KJV
Paul says those of us still alive on earth shall in no way ‘precede’ the asleep saints that have already died. The Greek word for ‘prevent’ actually means ‘precede, or beforehand.’ (NT:5348).
2. Then the Mark 13:24-27 version shows Christ gathering the saints from where?
“… from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.” (Mark 13:27)
That version in Mark 13 is different isn’t it? Christ gathering these saints is about Paul’s group of saints still alive on earth at Jesus’ coming, and are “caught up” to Jesus and the resurrected saints He brings with Him. Paul covered this in 1 Thess.4:17…
1 Thess 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
KJV
So when we get down to the nitty-gritty of what the Bible Scripture actually says as written, it is quite different than what men’s false Pre-trib Rapture theory claims. And I don’t care who that offends, because if you don’t want your soul to be in danger it’s time to stop listening to those pre-trib rapture charlatans that create false doctrines.
I also have to remark.
If any brethren still want to follow men’s false doctrine of a Pre-trib Rapture theory instead of heeding the simplicity of what Lord Jesus revealed about His future coming AFTER the tribulation, then that would mean DISREGARDING THE 1 THESSALONIANS 4 CHAPTER by Apostle Paul also!
That because Paul was teaching the SAME TIMING of Christ’s coming to gather His Church that Lord Jesus did in those Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Chapters.
Since the false Pre-trib Rapture theory crowd claim those Matthew 24 and Mark 13 Scriptures aren’t about their ‘rapture’ belief, then NEITHER CAN WHAT PAUL TAUGHT IN 1 THESSALONIANS 4 BE ABOUT CHRIST’S COMING TO RAPTURE HIS CHURCH EITHER.
That… is the HUGE HOLE in their false Pre-trib Rapture theory they have dug for themselves.
My word…you are farther out there than I originally thought.
Above is your remark you gave about Matthew 24. It definitely is NOT a Scripture that supports your false Pre-trib Rapture theory. You have been taught to ADD to… that Matthew 24:29-31 Scripture by Lord Jesus.
What I showed you concerning the passage, I showed you to demonstrate that YOUR interpretation of the passage is wrong. I did not ever say anything to the effect that it supported the Rapture…can you understand simple English?
What Lord Jesus actually said there…
Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJVThere is NO RAPTURE written prior to the tribulation. There is ONLY ONE MORE COMING BY LORD JESUS WRITTEN OF IN ALL OF GOD’S WORD.
Apparently you do not know how to read and interpret Scripture. There is a Rapture event, and there is a Second Coming event, and they do NOT take place at the same time, they are separated by at least 7 years, possibly with a few months thrown in there according to Daniel. There simply is no reference to the Rapture event in Mat. 24:29-31 – it is all about the Second Coming event, based upon the descriptors of the event
You need to learn those descriptors, otherwise you will continue to be taken in by false doctrines concerning the Rapture and Second Coming.
And I showed you. But you REJECT the simplicity of what Lord Jesus said and instead follow a bunch of charlatans that have created false doctrines against HIS WORD.
No, what you did was show me your opinion minus any Scriptural facts…in other words, you did not show me anything; and I am not the one following false doctrines made up by people who did not know what they were talking about.
BD
Dude, you need to employ some brain power here, because everything you said here is gibberish; look again and try to think:
The Rapture event:
1. believers are TRANSLATED;
2. translated saints go to heaven;
3. in the Rapture believers go up;
4. Christ does NOT come down to earth, He remains in the clouds;
5. earth is NOT judged at the Rapture;
6. the Rapture follows specific events;
7. precedes the Tribulation period;
8. the Rapture is NOT predicted in the OT;
9. affects only saved believers;
10. NO ONE will see Christ coming at the Rapture;
11. no reference to events having to do with satan;
12. Christ comes FOR His own.
The Second Coming event:
1. no one is translated;
2. translated saints return with Christ;
3. Christ and translated saints come down;
4. Christ steps upon the Mt. of Olives and splits it into two;
5. earth is judged; follows definite predicted signs;
6. follows the Tribulation;
7. Millennial kingdom begins;
8. Predicted often in the OT;
9. AFFECTS EVERY LIVING PERSON ON EARTH;
10. satan is bound;
11. ALL HUMANITY WILL SEE HIM at the Second Coming, even the dead in hell;
12. Christ comes WITH His own;
13. the elect are NOT translated, they are gathered by angels, and the elect in most passages that are gathered are NOT Christians, but Jews.
Print out this list and set it on your desk, and look at every single passage that you think teaches on either the Rapture event or the Second Coming event, and test what you only think against the event descriptors of each event. If you still cannot see the difference between these two Biblical events, then there is no hope for you ever coming to truth on this subject.
Blessings.
Not even one Bible Scripture offered by BlueDragon to prove his list of claims.
You using ‘personal’ mocking as an excuse to evade showing Scripture backup again. I thought PERSONAL INSULT was a no-no on this Christian forum?? Does that only apply for those who agree with website administrators?
Now brethren, does that above statement by BlueDragon actually make sense to you? Why would any believer on Jesus Christ try to prove they themselves are wrong with their understanding of a Bible Scripture? Does not compute.
But to prove SOMEONE ELSE’S INTERPRETATION IS WRONG, that’s EASY! All one need do is simply show the actual written Scripture and compare to what they say. Which I have done with BlueDragon’s claims.
There’s that personal insulting again. Angry much?
There is written only ONE more advent (coming) by Lord Jesus, not TWO like you are saying from men’s false Pre-trib Rapture theory. Nor is the word ‘rapture’ even in God’s written Word.
The Matthew 24:31 verse, and the Mark 13:27 verse, specifically declare, by Lord Jesus, just from WHERE He gathers His saints on the day of His future coming. So how could BlueDragon just try to REVERSE that Scripture as written? It is because he is taught to do that by men’s false Pre-trib Rapture theory. Another excuse men’s false Pre-trib Rapture theory tries to use against what Lord Jesus declared there in His Olivet discourse is that all that was given for the Jews, and not for His Church. And that even though Christ’s disciples that formed the early Christian Church were there with Jesus and is who Jesus gave that to.
Pre-tribs theories and doctrines have so many holes in them that they look like a range target shot with a machine gun.
Nice try, but that was not a personal attack. Perhaps others are not willing to tell you that you do not know how to read and interpret Scripture, but I do not have a problem with speaking the truth.
Have a nice eternity.
But that’s clearly a LIE you just told, simply because I SHOWED YOU WHAT LORD JESUS REVEALED for the timing of His future coming to gather His Church per the Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 Scripture, where He shows it will be AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
I even showed you how Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4 also aligns with what Jesus said there in His Olivet discourse!
So why have you LIED against those Scriptures when they are very simple to understand?
Again, Davy…I showed you the descriptors in Mat. 24…they tell you to your face that what Jesus talks about in that passage is the Second Coming, NOT the Rapture.
Your refusal to believe what the Scriptures clearly show your problem; what I said was not a lie.
But nice try.