Romans 8:16 says, “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God” (συμμαρτυρεῖ – symmarturei, to bear joint testimony).
I’m interested in how this “co-witnessing” works. Does the Spirit’s testimony confirm, illuminate, or convict? How is it experienced by the believer according to Scripture and the Greek context?
I’m looking for answers grounded in biblical language and early church understanding, rather than personal impressions or anecdotal “inner voice” experiences.
“testifies with our spirits that we are children of God”
As noted in Rom_8:13, one aspect of faith assurance is the believers’ changed and changing lives (cf. the NT books of James and 1 John). Another aspect of assurance is that the indwelling Spirit has replaced the fear of God with family love (cf. 1Jn_4:17-18). Note the RSV and NRSV translations and punctuation, “when we cry, Abba! Father! It is the Spirit Himself bearing witness with our spirits that we are children of God” (cf. Gal_4:6). This implies that the assurance comes when believers can call God, Father, by the Spirit.
The internal witness of the Spirit is not audible, but practical.
guilt over sin
desire to be like Christ
desire to be with the family of God
hunger for God’s word
sense a need to do evangelism
sense a need for Christian sacrificial giving
Contents: The new law of the Holy Spirit in the believer, giving deliverance from sinful nature. The full result of the Gospel in the believer and his security.
Characters: God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, Paul.
Conclusion: It is the unspeakable comfort of all those who are in Christ Jesus that no condemnation remains to them, and that the indwelling Spirit does in the believer what the law never could do. He gives deliverance from the power of sin, quickens for service, imparts assurance, and inspires prayer.
Key Word: Made free, Rom_8:2.
Strong Verses: Rom_8:1, Rom_8:2, Rom_8:14, Rom_8:16, Rom_8:18, Rom_8:26, Rom_8:28, Rom_8:31, Rom_8:32, Rom_8:34, Rom_8:35, Rom_8:38, Rom_8:39.
Striking Facts: Rom_8:26, Rom_8:34. The security of the believer as to the penalty of sin rests upon the one foundation of Christ’s finished work (Rom_8:32) and His intercession in heaven for the believer. The believer’s security against the power of sin is the present work of the Holy Spirit within him and His intercession for us. Notice the two intercessors.
Another difficulty or impossibility to our salvation rises out of the awful corruption and pollution of our hearts. But is there any use entering on that subject? Is there one man in a hundred who even knows the rudiments of the language I must now speak in? Is there one man in a hundred in whose mind any idea arises, and in whose heart any emotion or passion is kindled, as I proceed to speak of corruption of nature and pollution of heart? I do not suppose it. I do not presume upon it. I do not believe it. That most miserable man who is let down of God’s Holy Spirit into the pit of corruption that is in his own heart,—to him his corruption, added to his guilt, causes a sadness that nothing in this world can really relieve; it causes a deep and an increasing melancholy, such as the ninety and nine who need no repentance and feel no pollution know nothing of. All living men flee from the corruption of an unburied corpse. The living at once set about to bury their dead. ‘I am a stranger and a sojourner among you,’ said Abraham to the children of Heth; ‘give me a possession of a burying-place among you that I may bury my dead out of my sight.’ But Paul could find no grave in the whole world in which to bury out of his sight the body of death to which he was chained fast; that body of sin and death which always makes the holiest of men the most wretched of men,—till the loathing and the disgust and the misery that filled the apostle’s heart are to be understood by but one in a thousand even of the people of God.
And then, as if to make our salvation a very hyperbole of impossibility, the all but almighty power of indwelling sin comes in. Have you ever tried to break loose from the old fetter of an evil habit? Have you ever said on a New Year’s Day with Thomas À Kempis that this year you would root that appetite,—naming it,—out of your body, and that vice,—naming it,—out of your heart? Have you ever sworn at the Communion table that you would watch and pray, and set a watch on your evil heart against that envy, and that revenge, and that ill-will, and that distaste, dislike, and antipathy? Then your minister will not need to come back from his death-bed to preach to you on the difficulty of salvation.
And yet such is the grace of God, such is the work of Christ, and such is the power and the patience of the Holy Ghost that, if we had only an adequate ministry in our pulpits, and an assisting literature in our homes, even this three-fold impossibility would be overcome and we would be saved. But if the ministry that is set over us is an ignorant, indolent, incompetent, self-deceived ministry; if our own chosen, set-up, and maintained minister is himself an uninstructed, unspiritual, unsanctified man; and if the books we buy and borrow and read are all secular, unspiritual, superficial, ephemeral, silly, stupid, impertinent books, then the impossibility of our salvation is absolute, and we are as good as in hell already with all our guilt and all our corruption for ever on our heads. Now, that was the exact case of Mansoul in the allegory of the Holy War at one of the last and acutest stages of that war. Or, rather, that would have been her exact case had Diabolus got his own deep, diabolical way with her. For what did her ancient enemy do but sound a parley till he had played his last card in these glozing and deceitful words;—‘I myself, ’he had the face to say to Emmanuel, ‘if Thou wilt raise Thy siege and leave the town to me, I will, at my own proper cost and charge, set up and maintain a sufficient ministry, besides lecturers, in Mansoul, who shall show to Mansoul that transgression stands in the way of life; the ministers I shall set up shall also press the necessity of reformation according to Thy holy law.’ And even now, with the two pulpits, God’s and the devil’s, and the two preachers, and the two pastors, in our own city,—how many of you see any difference, or think that the one is any worse or any better than the other? Or, indeed, that the ministry of the last card is not the better of the two to your interest and to your taste, to the state of your mind and to the need of your heart? Let us proceed, then, to look at Mansoul’s two pulpits and her two lectureships as they stand portrayed on the devil’s last card and in Emmanuel’s crowning commission; that is, if our eyes are sharp enough to see any difference?
My dear brother and friend @johann who here could possibly be on a high enuff level to answer a question from someone with as much learning as you? During my years being cutoff from all this verse with prayer rendered my greatest victories. 1 John 2:27 after all he is the undisputed master theologian
Brother, I’m not here to boast in knowledge or intellect. Scripture is clear that understanding is a gift from God, not a reason for pride.
1 Corinthians 8:1[1]
I’m also aware that I’m often misunderstood or misrepresented, which is hardly new for those who try to handle Scripture carefully.
2 Peter 3:16[2]
If something I share is difficult or not helpful to you, you’re free to pass it by. Each of us is accountable for how we receive and respond to what is taught.
Romans 14:1[3]
For me, sharing is part of learning. Scripture itself ties growth to engagement, testing, and instruction.
Proverbs 18:15[4]
My aim is not self-display, but growth in truth, spoken in love.
Ephesians 4:15[5]
The context of your proof-text.
Warning Concerning Antichrists
1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
1Jn 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
1Jn 2:26 These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Children of God
1Jn 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
By the way, let me know if you can read the scriptures @Inmate
J.
Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. - KJV ↩︎
…in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest… - KJV ↩︎
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. - KJV ↩︎
The heart of the prudent getteth knowledge; and the ear of the wise seeketh knowledge. - KJV ↩︎
But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ. - KJV ↩︎
First, I want to say this. I HIGHLY encourage everyone to read Romans 8. 7 in pretty good too. But Romans 8 gives and condesed and total picture of salvation and walking in the spirit as opposed to walking in the flesh. I loved Romans 8.
Second,
"If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.
I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world will see me no more, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day, you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.
Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?”
Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.” John 14:15-23
Notice the wording here. I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will teach you all things. Then Jesus says, “Iwill not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.”I. Then this. "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.”We. I, the Holy Spirit,God Himself. So the Spirit is not alone.
I believe that it works as Jesus said, remembrance through The Word of God, by the sharing of wisdom from within ourselves. It can often manifest in that sense of knowing.
Would you please do what I asked and explain the meaning of summarteou?
What summarteou most likely points to is a misspelling or compressed transliteration of the Greek verb συμμαρτυρέω (symmartyreō), a compound formed from syn meaning “with” or “together” and martyreō meaning “to bear witness” or “to testify,” so the combined sense is “to bear witness together” or “to testify in agreement with another.”
And…
Romans 8 is not the gospel invitation, and treating it as such quietly breaks Paul’s argument and then acts surprised when things wobble.
The same is true about lies that appear in a form masquerading as the gospel of Christ. The gospel has been a prime target of evil all through history. The truth that transforms though Christ is replaced by a poisonous but appealing substitute. It attracts masses to something that seems to satisfy the soul, but does not. It’s a deception. The popular but confused message goes by the name “Christian”, and it aims it’s lure toward those most hungry for truth, hope, and help.
The word “gospel” is used 4 times in these 5 verses in the English translations of Galatians 1:6-10. This root word for gospel appears in this section either as a verb or as a noun 5 times in the original language. It’s the central theme in every one of those verses.
The word for “gospel” here is “euangelion” (ευαγγέλιον), which means “good message”. The prefix is “eu” (ευ). It simply means “good” as in the English word “eulogy” which means “good words”. The main part of the word, “angel” (άγγελ), means “message”. It’s the same word that’s translated as “angel”, a “messenger” sent out to deliver specific information. The word here for “gospel” combines these roots to make it mean “good message”. English often changes the Greek “u” into a “v”, so the word “heuangel” (ευάγγελ) become “evangel”. That’s where we get the word “evangelism”, the proclaiming of a good message.
In this same passage the gospel is referred to as the “grace of Christ”. It’s what the Galatians received when Paul came there with God’s soul-liberating news.
You would think that such a life-changing message would be treasured and kept pure. That’s why Paul was so amazed.
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
What the Gospel Is Not
Sometimes we clarify truth best by exposing counterfeits:
Not moralism: The gospel is not “Be good and God will love you.” That’s law, not grace.
Not prosperity: The gospel is not “Believe and life gets easier.” Ask Paul (2 Corinthians 11:24–28).
Not spiritualism: It’s not vague “faith” in something. It’s faith in Someone—Christ crucified and risen.
Not behavior modification: You can change your habits and still be lost. You need a new heart.
The apostles do not preach “become better people” but “Christ died for our sins and was raised again,” and only after that proclamation do they address how those who are justified ought to live, precisely because ethical renewal is an effect of the gospel, not its content.
Thanks.
J.
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins. - KJV ↩︎
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. - KJV ↩︎
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. - KJV ↩︎
How do you understand this verse in context @PeterC ?
Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
Joh 14:15 “If you really love me, you will keep my commands.
Joh 14:16 And I will ask I will ask the Father and He will give you another Helper, to remain with you to the end of the age;
Joh 14:17 even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, because it does not see Him or recognize Him, because He is going to remain with you, and will be within you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you helpless orphans. I am coming back to you.
Joh 14:19 In just a little while the world will not see me any more, but you will be seeing me. Because I am to live on, you too will live on.
Joh 14:20 At that time you will know that I am in union with my Father and you are in union with me and I am in union with you.
Joh 14:21 Whoever continues to hold and keep my commands is the one who really loves me, and whoever really loves me will be loved by my Father; yes, I will love him myself and will make myself real to him.”
Joh 14:22 Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said to Him, “Why is it, Lord, that you are going to make yourself real to us and not to the world?”
Joh 14:23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone really loves me, he will observe my teaching, and my Father will love him, and both of us will come in face-to-face fellowship with him; yes, we will make our special dwelling place with him.
Joh 14:24 Whoever does not really love me does not observe my teaching; and yet the teaching which you are listening to is not mine but comes from the Father who has sent me.
Joh 14:25 "I have told you this while I am still staying with you.
Joh 14:26 But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send to represent me, will teach you everything Himself, and cause you to remember everything that I have told you.
Joh 14:27 I now leave you the blessing of peace, I give you the blessing of my own peace. I myself do not give it in the way the world gives it. Stop letting your hearts be troubled or timid.
Joh 14:28 You have heard me say that I am going away and coming back to you; if you really loved me, you would rejoice over my telling you that I am going to the Father, because my Father is greater than I.
Joh 14:29 And now I have told you this before it takes place, that when it does take place you may believe in me.
Joh 14:30 “I shall not talk much more with you, for the evil ruler of this world is coming and he has nothing in common with me,
Joh 14:31 but he is coming that the world may know that I love the Father and am doing what the Father has ordered me to do. Get up and let us go away.”
IV- The Comforter Will Teach:
Jesus had been their teacher for the past few months and many to the things He had taught them they were not aware of. When the Holy Spirit would come He would bring things to their mind that they had heard Him speak.
Joh_14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
An additional thing that He would do was not only bring things to their minds but help them to see the meaning of them. 1Co_2:14 says, But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
This is a promise I feel to us today as believers as well. Most feel that they are not prepared to present spiritual truths. I challenge all of us to just make ourselves available and we will be amazed at how much the Holy Spirit will bring into our mind that we do not naturally recall.
The Holy Spirit is also teaching men of their need of Jesus Christ. Jesus spoke concerning this in Joh_16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Again we see that He is the Spirit of truth in relation to His ongoing ministry of teaching about Jesus.
Joh_16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
The heartbeat of the Holy Spirit is to glorify and point men and women to the Lord Jesus.
V- The Gift of Peace:
Joh_14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
He spoke of giving them peace. Peace, why their world was going to turned upside down in the next few hours and days.
Hello Brother. First, I have no knowledge of you asking me the definition of summarteou. I have no idea, and the closest I can get to it would be summation, which means the act or process of forming a sum: addition, sum, total especially: the process by which a sequence of stimuli that are individually inadequate to produce a response are cumulatively able to induce a nerve impulse, and perhaps the definition you are asking me for is a final part of an argument reviewing points made and expressing conclusions?
I did not say it was an invitation, but a condensed and concise picture of Salvation. Difference in unsaved, walking in and thinking in the flesh, and walking in and thinking in the Spirit, which is only possible after the adoption, where we can call God our father. You disagree?
Are you claiming I’m doing this? As far as my use of the word Gospel, it is the same as the Word. Good News. You use “good message”. Perhaps it is because I speak in plain language and you in more of a linguistic way that we missed each other? I’m pretty sure we said the same thing.
Never said nor have I ever believed it did. Not sure where you got that from.
I thought I answered that. Jesus is clear, when He said The Holy Spirit, He, and the Father, would come into those who believed, and “We” they would teach and bring to remembrance anything He said and did, why? Because He is The Word.
Of course, because Jesus, in the form of The Word, will be there with the Holy Spirit, and God, three yet one, or do you see it differently?
The clear, concise, and very distinct difference, in walking in the flesh, and by faith.
Let’s look at the entire chapter.
Romans 8:
“There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.”
There is now no condemnation for you. Do you understand this very first verse? It means that it no longer matters what you may have done, ever, anything, in your past. You will not be condemned for anything you have done, now that you are a child of God. As long as you walk in the Spirit, there is nothing you can do that will condemn you.
You are no longer under the control of physical laws. When you are walking in the Spirit, living by faith, even death itself cannot touch you without permission from God Himself. Sin can not touch you, as long as you are in the Spirit. You are a new creature. You are Holy. You are a Saint. Wait, a Saint?
“For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,”
The only way to walk in the Spirit is through the acceptance of Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for you and your sins. Once you become a child of God, learn His Ways. His Will. His Word. Understand that His is the better way. It is only through Faith that you can walk in the Spirit. Faith in Christ. Faith in God. Trust in who you have become.
“in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.”
Galatians 5:16-25
"But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.”
“The works of the flesh manifest…” Does this mean you think about something, and Sin? No. Does it mean that if you get drunk at a party tomorrow, you are all of a sudden sinning and worthy of death? No. What it means is this. If you are walking in the flesh, and something comes to your mind, you are more likely to act on it.
You can not be carnally minded, or walk in the flesh, and spiritually minded, or walk in the Spirit, at the same time. “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.” Why?
“Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”
Religiosity. Legalism, traditional followings, and mindless doings of what society says is good mean nothing without Christ. Without faith, it is all pointless. Without understanding the Spirit, you can not grow in the Spirit, nor walk in the Spirit, nor please God. You will become distracted by the flesh and may be led astray.
“You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him.”
You know how people say all the time, “We are all God’s Children.”? Not true. We are all God’s creation, but not all God’s children. There is only one way to be a child of God. Through the adoption of the Holy Spirit.
“But if Christ is in you, although the body is dead because of sin, the Spirit is life because of righteousness. If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. So then, brothers, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.”
You can’t get any clearer than that. If you “live after the flesh, you shall die.” The result of Sin is death. Period. No debate. No discussion. No excuses.
”For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of adoption as sons, by whom we cry, “Abba! Father!”
If you have received the Spirit of adoption, you become a child of God. Only by the Spirit can you do this. When you have, then you can call God, the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the Lord of Lords and the King of kings, Daddy. Remember, “Abba Father” is an Aramaic word that would most closely be translated as “Daddy.”
Not just in the Word, but in the land. It was a common term that young children would use to address their Fathers. It is meant to show the close, intimate relationship of the Father and his child. You can also find it in Mark 14:36, and in Galatians 4:6, which declares, “And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
“The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs–heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.”
Think about that for a second. Don’t ever forget who you are as a child of God. You are a Prince or Princess of Heaven. You are heirs of God. God, the Creator of all that is, is your Father.
“For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now. And not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.”
Hope can only come by Faith and Faith only by the Spirit.
“Likewise, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”
The Spirit that is inside you is Christ Himself. God Himself. He knows your heart. He knows your mind. He cannot be misled or lied to. He can not be fooled. He will be with you always.
“And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to his purpose.”
Lose a friendship? Lose your Job? Get evicted? Get arrested? Whatever it is you are facing, God says there is good. Why? Because it all comes together for His plan for you. We see the immediate. God sees the total.
“For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.”
This is a whole other message, but God knows you and who you can become from the womb. You are fashioned after the way He says you should be. He sets up a purpose and plan for your life. Then God calls you. Now it is up to you to say yes or no. If you are now a child of God, that means you said Yes. Then, since you did, He justifies you to fulfill that purpose and plan. Then, those who endure till the end, He glorifies.
Again, if you are a Child of God, who or what can stand against you?
“What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
It is not man who justifies you. It is not man who condemns you. It is not man that holds your destiny in their hands. No man controls your destiny. Oh, your boss may be able to end your employment at company ABC. But it is God who decides what comes next.
“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
I appreciate the effort you put into exegeting the contrast between walking in the Spirit and walking in the flesh, but that is not the issue I raised in this thread.
My question concerns Romans 8:16 specifically: “The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God” (συμμαρτυρεῖ, symmarturei, meaning to bear joint testimony).
Rom 8:12 So, brothers, we are under obligations, but not to our lower nature to live by the standard set by it;
Rom 8:13 for if you live by such a standard, you are going to die, but if by the Spirit you put a stop to the doings of your lower nature, you will live.
Rom 8:14 For all who are guided by God’s Spirit are God’s sons.
Rom 8:15 For you do not have a sense of servitude to fill you with dread again, but the consciousness of adopted sons by which we cry, “Abba,” that is, “Father.”
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirits that we are God’s children;
Rom 8:17 and if children, then also heirs, heirs of God and fellow-heirs with Christ if in reality we share His sufferings, so that we may share His glory too.
I am asking how this co-witnessing functions. Is the Spirit’s testimony confirmatory, illuminating, or convicting?
How is this to be understood from the Greek text and within the broader biblical and early church context?
I am not asking for a paraphrase of the verse in plain English, nor for personal impressions or anecdotal “inner voice” experiences.
I am looking for answers grounded in the language of Scripture itself.
Beareth witness with our spirit (summarturei tōi pneumati hēmōn). See note on Rom_2:15 for this verb with associative instrumental case. See 1Jn_5:10. for this double witness.
Yes. In the context of Romans 8:16, the “co-witnessing” (the symmartyrei) isn’t limited to just one of those functions—it is actually a dynamic synergy of all three.
Think of it as a courtroom where the Holy Spirit isn’t just a witness on the stand, but also the light in the room and the power behind the verdict. Here is how those three functions interact to create that “joint testimony.” Illumination
The Spirit reveals the beauty of God’s grace. You see the truth.
Response: Your spirit responds with faith and the cry “Abba.” You claim the truth.
Confirmation: The Spirit resonates with your cry, providing peace. You rest in the truth.
Conviction: The Spirit maintains this truth against doubt/sin. You stay in the truth.
To understand the linguistic mechanics of $\sigma \upsilon \mu \mu \alpha \rho \tau \upsilon \rho \epsilon \tilde{\iota}$ (symmartyrei), we have to look at how the “co-” prefix transforms the nature of the testimony. It isn’t just two people saying the same thing; it is a specific legal and ontological synchronization.
1. The Linguistic Breakdown: Sym + Martyrei. In Koine Greek, the prefix syn/sym (meaning “with” or “together”) creates a compounded testimony. Witness (Martyrei): To provide evidence or a report of a fact.Co-witness (Symmartyrei): To provide supporting evidence that validates another’s testimony.
In a Roman legal context, a single witness was often insufficient. Paul uses this term to show that the believer’s claim to be a child of God is not “unsupported hearsay” from their own heart. Instead, the Holy Spirit acts as the second witness required by law to establish a fact, Deuteronomy 19:15
2. The Relationship Between Conviction and Illumination. You asked how these functions work together. The “co-witnessing” acts as a bridge between the Spirit’s work in the world and His work in the believer. In John 16, The World: The Spirit convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. This is an external, adversarial “legal” pressure.
In Romans 8, The Believer: The Spirit witnesses to our spirit of adoption and sonship. This is an internal, familial “legal” assurance. The Illumination serves as the “light” that allows our spirit to see our new status, while the conviction serves as the “anchor” that prevents our spirit from believing the lies of condemnation.
3. The Functional Synergy. Here is how the co-witnessing “mechanics” function in real-time: Function Direction. The “Co-Witness” Interaction illuminating Spirit $\rightarrow$ Mind. The Spirit opens your “eyes” to see the Gospel as personal rather than abstract. Convicting Spirit $\rightarrow$ Conscience. The Spirit silences the “accuser” by reminding you of your justified status. Confirmatory Spirit $\leftrightarrow$ Spirit. Your spirit cries “Abba,” and the Spirit resonates with a “Yes, you are Mine.”
4. Why the “Co-” is Vital. If the Spirit witnessed to us (alone), we might remain passive or unconvinced. If our spirit were witnessed alone, we would be prone to delusion or self-inflation. The symmartyrei ensures that the assurance of salvation is a dialogue. It is the “Amen” of the Creator responding to the “Faith” of the creature. It is the Spirit’s testimony joining ours to create a cord that is not easily broken.
Lexical Sources: The “Dual-Witness” Mechanism. The term $\sigma \upsilon \mu \mu \alpha \rho \tau \upsilon \rho \epsilon \tilde{\iota}$ (symmartyrei) is the cornerstone.
Strong’s Greek Lexicon (#4828): Defines the word as “to testify jointly” or "to corroborate by concurrent evidence.”
The Thayer’s Greek Lexicon and Bill Mounce’s Dictionary emphasize that the prefix syn- implies the Spirit is not testifying to a passive spirit, but alongside an active one.
Legal Background: In Jewish and Roman law (e.g., Deuteronomy 19:15), a fact was only established by “two or three witnesses.” Paul uses this linguistic structure to show that our assurance isn’t just a subjective feeling (one witness), but a legally established reality backed by the Spirit (the second witness).
John Wesley (The “Direct” Witness): In his sermon The Witness of the Spirit, Wesley argued that the Spirit provides an “inward impression” that acts directly on the soul. To Wesley, this is primarily confirmatory—a “spiritual whisper” that you are reconciled to God.
John Calvin (The “Illuminating” Witness): In his Institutes of the Christian Religion, Calvin focused on the “secret testimony of the Spirit.” He argued the Spirit illuminates our minds to recognize the promises of Scripture as true for us personally. Without this light, the Bible remains a “dead letter.”
Charles Hodge & Douglas Moo (The “Evidentiary” Witness): Modern and Reformed commentators often emphasize the convicting and evidentiary nature. They argue the Spirit witnesses by producing “fruits” (Galatians 5:22) and a “desire for holiness.” Our spirit sees these changes and concludes, with the Spirit’s help, that we are truly God’s children.
Nobody is being targeted. Posting in response to public statements in a public thread is not harassment. It is regular discussion and, where doctrine is concerned, biblical responsibility.
The Bible does not instruct believers to ignore error because someone is uncomfortable being examined. Quite the contrary. “Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear” ~1 Timothy 5:20. This principle extends to doctrine, not personalities.
This isn’t about you. This is about what you are saying. If you make claims about God in public, then you will answer for those claims publicly. “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good” ~1 Thessalonians 5:21.
If you feel attacked when being told that something you are teaching is unbiblical, the problem isn’t me calling you out. The problem is the authority to which you are appealing. Scripture remains sovereign whether you accept it or not.
What is the context of this proof-text you are quoting?
You say…doctrines, not personalities and this is where you err.
Them that sin (tous hamartanontas). The elders who continue to sin (present active participle).
Them that sin. The present active participle refers to those that continue to sin; continue, that is, after appropriate private correction has taken place (+*1Ti_5:19 note), and no change for the better has occurred. Lev_4:22; Lev_4:27, Deu_17:12, Jhn_5:29 note. Gal_5:21 note. +*Heb_10:26, +*1Jn_3:8.
1Th 5:15 See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
1Th 5:16 Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19 Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20 Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
This is your “commentary” and not about my “unbiblical teaching”