I am a Deist, but I keep dreaming about Christianity. What does this mean

Christianforumscom banned me for asking this question.
Is it a crime to be a deist and to research religion? What nonsense! Anyway, my question is this:

Hello friends, greetings from Turkiye! I would truly appreciate it if you could help me out with your kind insights and perspectives regarding my situation."

I am a Deist, but I keep dreaming about Christianity and churches. What could this mean?

I consider myself a Deist, and I’ve been researching different belief systems. However, for the past month, I’ve been experiencing something I can’t quite explain: I am constantly drawn toward Christianity in my dreams. I’ve had 5 or 6 recurring dreams involving priests, churches, and Christian motifs.

The strange part is that I don’t consciously think about Christianity during the day; my mind feels “empty” or neutral regarding this topic, so I don’t think it’s just a simple reflection of my daily thoughts. I am not actively trying to convert, yet these images persist.

How should I interpret these dreams from a psychological or spiritual perspective? Has anyone else experienced a “call” through dreams that contradicted their current logic or belief system?

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My own journey to faith in Jesus wasn’t by a call through dreams. Perhaps someone else here has had that experience and will share it with you. God does speak through dreams. We see that in the Bible and we see it today, but there are many who have never heard from God this way. I’ve read a few stories where someone who’s Muslim has had Jesus come to them in a dream and the experience of that dream led them to become a Christian. In the Bible it’s quite clear that God is the one who interprets dreams and if I was you, I would ask Him in prayer for the meaning.

It may seem foolish to pray to a God you really don’t believe in. If the desire of your heart is to know the truth and there is nothing in your heart that will come against the truth, then I believe He will make Himself known to you. It’s His desire that all should come to repentance and no one is lost to Him. He loves you, if that means anything to you. I can say with certainty that you are greatly loved. Welcome! I hope you find your answer.

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For those who don’t know what is Deism.

A Deist is someone who believes in God but rejects the idea that God intervenes in the world through miracles, revelation, prophets, or sacred texts. In other words, they affirm a Creator but deny ongoing divine involvement. Think of it as belief in a cosmic architect who built the structure, wound up the clock, and then stepped back.

Historically, Deism flourished during the Enlightenment, when thinkers wanted a version of religion that harmonized with reason and emerging science rather than ecclesiastical authority. Figures like Voltaire and Thomas Paine championed versions of this outlook. In Paine’s work The Age of Reason, for example, he affirms belief in one God while explicitly rejecting the Bible as divinely inspired revelation. That is classic Deist posture: God exists, but Scripture is human literature, not divine speech.

The core convictions of Deism usually include the following. First, God created the universe. Second, God endowed human beings with reason sufficient to discern moral law. Third, miracles and special revelation are unnecessary and often viewed as superstitious additions. Fourth, the universe operates according to fixed natural laws that even God does not suspend.

The metaphor most often associated with Deism is the watchmaker analogy. God constructs the universe with precision, like a watch, then allows it to run according to the mechanisms built into it. The watch does not require periodic supernatural adjustments.

This is sharply different from classical Christian theism, which insists that God not only creates but sustains and governs all things continuously, and that He reveals Himself in history, supremely in the incarnation, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ. Deism affirms transcendence but minimizes immanence. It gives you a Creator without covenant, intelligence without intimacy.

It tends to appeal to people who find atheism too stark but traditional religion too interventionist. Philosophically tidy, emotionally distant. God as engineer rather than Father.

Welcome to the forum @Emre .

J.

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What a great and informative explantion Johann. Thank you for that brother.

@Emre First, welcome. I am deeply sorry that Christianforumscom banned you for seeking answers. That is not done here when someone comes with sincerity to seek wisdom in Gods word.

Second, I come from a background that started with me being born in a Christian environment, and becoming agnostic over the years after being forcibly exposed to a multiude of religous beliefs. I began to feel that “human reason is incapable of providing sufficient rational grounds to justify either the belief that God exists or the belief that God does not exist.” to quote wiki. Luckily I came back to God.

I did not have dreams or nightmares to sway me in the way you describe however, so I am no help to you there.

I am intersted to know if there has been anything recent to have happend in your life that could be considered life-altering? Has someone close died? Adverse medical diagnosis? Close call or brush with death? Or is this just ‘out-of-the-blue’?

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I would like to ask, have you ever read the Bible? All throughout the book, God spoke to both believers and non-believers in dreams many, many times. If you wish to truly cure your curiosity, consult scripture for similarities.

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@Emre first of all..welcome!! You are not the first “Diest” I’ve come across, and you probably won’t be the last, but you are most welcome here, regardless of what you read on these forums.

This is my very subjective and personal opinion: I used to practice many other forms of spirituality, and had “dreams”, but they were never about Christianity or the church. But, I honestly felt a pull in that direction, especially since I attended church at a young age, but left the church because of many things that I don’t want to discuss in a public forum. I may, one day, but today isn’t that day. Anyway, what we consciously and unconsciously think about during our waking hours is never really what is going on in our brains. We don’t actually know what is going on in our brains, and to me, that’s a huge relief because some of the crazy things my brain comes up with when I’m sleeping just leave me gobsmacked. But we DO know that sometimes, our brains will spew out stuff going on behind the scenes in dreams. While you may not be “consciously” thinking about Christ, Christianity or the church, somewhere, deep in the neuron network, in a cubby hole far away from your conscious mind, is a question - “who’s there?” because someone is knocking on that very private door to that very deep cubby hole. You could open the door and find out who’s knocking. :slight_smile:

My favourite thing to do when I’m hiking in the woods is to see where a path goes. I’ll find a secondary path off the main path, and would look at my dog (who recently passed away but is still very much a part of my daily life) and say “hmmm..wonder where that path goes? Should we check it out?” My dog was always game for checking out a new path!

So..just maybe..check out the new path. Just make sure to take a compass with you in case you get lost. I’m speaking from experience here lol. And, as @Inmate suggested, try reading scripture. See what jumps out at you. I promise it won’t be a bear, but it might be a talking donkey lol.

I’m trying to be lighthearted about this journey. It’s not an easy one. Mine has been fraught with doubt, questions, rebelliousness, poor use of time, misunderstanding what I’m reading, and then having a verse literally jump off the page at me and suddenly so many things in my life make sense.

Oh..and don’t get intimidated by big words here. I glean over most of them, like when you’re reading a book that has some difficult names in it (I’m thinking of Dostoyevsky here) but the story line is good. Actually, that sounds A LOT like the bible :slight_smile:

I pray that your journey is informative, enlightening and fun, with a few adventures and road bumps along the way. Road bumps keep you on your toes lol.

Again, welcome and I truly hope that you find what you are seeking.

Joanne

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First, Welcome, @Emre

We will not do that here. Was that really the question that got you banned? Sad. It is also my understanding that Deists value logic and the “Laws of Nature.” Yes? If that is the case, look at John 1:1, which uses the Greek word “Logos,” which is most often translated as “Word,” but also meaning “Reason” or “Logic.” If a Creator designed a universe with such intricate laws, it is rational to suggest that the Creator has a ‘logic’ or a mind. "In the beginning was the Word, Logos.” This suggests that Jesus is not just a religious figure, but the physical manifestation of the very “Reason” that you admire in the cosmos.

Hebrews 1:3 describes Jesus as the “exact representation” of God’s being. If the universe shows us God’s power, Jesus shows us God’s character.

If the Creator of such a complex world wanted to communicate its purpose, wouldn’t the most effective method be to enter that world?

Romans 1:20 validates your view that nature reveals God; the Gospels are a high-definition version of that same revelation.

As for dreams? You are most likely skeptical of the supernatural, but respect the subconscious and the complexity of the human mind. Job 33:14-15:

“For God speaks in one way, and in two, though man does not perceive it. In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falls on men, while they slumber on their beds,”

In Job, dreams are presented as a way God bypasses human pride to give instruction. Is it possible that the “Clockmaker” built a “notification system” within our own consciousness? If the mind is a product of design, why wouldn’t the Designer use the hours of sleep, when our biases are lowered, to nudge our reasoning?

Had you ever had a “moment of clarity?” A dream that felt unusually structured?

Peter

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Again Welcome to the forum.

May I make two suggestions.

  1. That you start reading the Bible, I would suggest starting with the new Testament.
  2. In your comparison or exploration of religion please consider how worshipers are saved.
    In Christianity the forgiveness of sins and the invitation to a place in heaven with God is freely given to those willing to accept it.
    In comparison Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism all require the worshipper to earn a reward from the object of worship.

Christianity teaches that God so loved the world that he sent his only Son to die, so that whoever believed in him would have eternal life.

I don’t expect you to immediately to chose what you believe but please pray to God.

Ask him to make himself or the truth clear to you.

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@Emre
Thanks for your interesting post, and thanks for trusting these fine folks with guidance in your quest.

I find two things interesting in your post.

The first is that you claim, right-up-front, to be a Deist. @Johann has given us the classical definition of that appellation, but I am wondering if that is what you personally mean by the designation “Deist”. In your own mind, do you think you chose this epithet or do you think it chose you?

Second, I find it interesting that you are reluctant to submit to the time-tested teachings of the bible, (which self-claims to be the work of an omniscient and loving God who seeks your best and highest good), to guide your quest for truth, but you are willing to entertain the authority of some nighttime reverie as a possible guide, knowing, as a deist, that your dreams are more likely to be a product of bad digestion than supernatural leading.

More later, if you are interested.
KP

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I suppose we should give him an opportunity to respond, everyone, he has not replied yet.

J.

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Friend, I believe the influence of the Holy Spirit is upon you in your sleep, at those times of weakest resistance to the truths of God. And the God I am talking about is active and is and has been in the world sense creation to call out a people who want to know Him in a personal way. My God is love, that is to say He is capable of this and many other emotional expressions. He is the One I am patterned after. I was made in His image and likeness. You are too. He loves me and all other humans who are made in his image, although from the first rebellion, that image is in all humans has been tainted by sin. What do I mean by sin? I mean “independence”. Wherever men exist they naturally try to move and interact and speak independently from God. My loving God is so holy He requires His people to recognize and admit their dependence on God. We all tend to rebel and live selfishly unless we have a touch from a Holy God. We all labor and are heavy-laden and God calls us to come unto Him and find rest for our souls. He is not a dead or passive God who basically is finished with us as soon as He has created us. God has feelings. He cares. He has holy and healthy standards, and they are as much for us as they are for Him. We can and must get to know our personal God. If we don’t and assume our independence, we die, we perish, we go to a place after death where God is not, and we live in torment due to our unresolved need for a God that is not there.

God has made a way for us to come to Him, even when we don’t deserve to. He would love for each of us to just be honest with ourselves and honest with the universe and say “There is a God and I am not Him”. Lord help me to know You, and to be forgiven of trying to live independently from You. Humans have to admit their lostness without God. God has sent His Son, Jesus Christ to do a job for Him while on earth. Not to live a good life and be an example for other humans, not to give us moral teachings that we need, not to do miracles, No His job was to die, not like other people, who die of accident or illness or old age, but to die on purpose to pay with His Holiness for all of us in our sin. Not one soul has lived a sinless life beside Him. The fact is that sin kills. The wages of sin is death. So, Jesus died to pay our obligation to a holy God for our sins. He did not deserve death and certainly not to carry the burden of all our sins. But he did it out of love for the perverted human race… so that through Him they could have the real life that our first ancestor gave way when he sinned. Jesus came because of the Father’s love and in order to die and not only that, but to be made sin after all our sins were laid upon Him, and to take our place so that we might live (Have his righteousness). He did it knowing many would never understand or believe in what He did. But He did it knowing that those who do believe in Him and His action would be saved. And that is what He wants for all humans. So, there is no other name on earth or anywhere else by which we may be saved There is no other Savior, no other could have done what Jesus did. All this is what Christians call the Gospel, the Good News

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My dear friends, first of all, I would like to thank you for taking the time to listen to me. Please know that every word you write is very precious to me, and I am truly grateful.

I have heard so many things throughout my life; certain contradictions between some books and modern science have led me down this path. I respect everyone’s beliefs, but unfortunately, many religious figures today exploit faith for their own interests. They tell people not to drink, yet they do it themselves. They preach against extramarital affairs, yet they engage in them. While so many people are in desperate need of help, they tell the poor to be grateful to God while they themselves enjoy the most luxurious meals and cars.

May God forgive me, but He gave us reason and intellect so that we could research and think. In my opinion, if we are good people, if we don’t violate others’ rights, if we help those in need, and if we don’t covet what belongs to others, why would God cast us into hell? Does it make sense that these hypocritical religious figures go to heaven while I go to hell just because I am a deist? I don’t believe it works that way.

Nowadays, everything has become about showing off. A religious figure posts a photo on social media while praying just to get engagement. I believe that faith and charity should be private. If you are doing a good deed, it should be done in a way that no one sees. They share pictures saying, “We brought food to our friend in need,” without caring about that person’s dignity. This is not what religion is about. It should be done in secret. This is why cults or such people do not feel sincere to me. I prefer to read and research on my own; the best way is to live one’s faith privately.

Stay away from those who exploit and use religion. We see it every day. May God forgive me, but this is not my fault. You understand me, right, my friends? It is because of these people who exploit religion that I became a deist.

So very much to unpack. First, Science has always, and will always have to catch up to the Bible. Science will always prove the Bible right. I have taught MANY examples of this.

100 percent true. This is why I always say religion is a man-made concept, and in a lot of cases, you are correct. Religion is not salvation. Look at Gravity. The truth is that gravity is real. It exists. It is what it is. You can accept it. Reject it. Analyze it. Dissect it. Study it. Teach it. Speak about it. Think about it. Ignore it. Hate it. Whatever you choose to do. But it remains what it is.

Gravity is no respecter of persons. It does not care if you are black or white, male or female, rich or poor. It does not even care if you accept it. Reject it. Analyze it. Dissect it. Study it. Teach it. Speak about it. Think about it. Ignore it. Hate it. Whatever you choose to do. It WILL affect you, me, and everyone else the same way.

We go up to a high place. Gravity says, “Do not step off. You will fall. You will get hurt or even die.” If you obey this “law of gravity,” you will not step off. You will be just fine. If I choose not to obey it, I step off. What happens? I fall. I get hurt. Or I die. Why? Because I did not obey the “law of gravity.” I did not accept it. I rejected it.

Now some questions. Did gravity kill me due to my lack of obedience? No. Did gravity choose to kill me because I did not accept it? No. Because you chose to accept it, does that make you a better person than me? No. Simply put, gravity is. This is true. You accepted it. You live. I did not accept it. I died.

God is the same way. He is. He said to tell His people His name is “I am.” He just is. You can? Say it with me, accept Him. Reject Him. Analyze Him. Dissect Him. Study Him. Teach Him. Speak about Him. Think about Him. Ignore Him. Hate Him. Whatever you choose to do. But He remains who and what He is.

He is seeking a relationship with you, not religion. He could not care less about religion. Most of the people Jesus admonished the most were religious folks. Whatever you choose to do? God loves you. He does. He does not want you to die. He has written all of us a love letter. He has given all of us a manual for life itself. All can read it. All can understand it. All can and have to decide what they are going to do. Accept it, or reject it.

God knows we are weak and we cannot save ourselves. So God made that way simple, too. John 3:16-18

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”

That’s it, Folks. It is just this simple. His name is Yeshua. We translated it as Jesus.

“Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart, one believes and is justified, and with the mouth, one confesses and is saved. The Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” Romans 10:9-11

Continued..

Peter

There is no confusion. There is no complication. This is true. Accept it and live. Reject it and die. There is no hate. There is no judgment. There is only Truth. Simply put. Easy to understand.

“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already” Why? “because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”

That is it. “What makes you think your Religion is better than all others?” Not talking about Religion. Yeshua is NOT a Religion. He is the ONLY way.

“Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6

He will. He promises, through Jesus.

First, there are no good people. All of us have sinned and are worthy of death. Second, as I illustrated in part one, God condemns NOONE to hell. God is not an old bearded man, sitting on a throne, watching your every move, just waiting for you to screw up so He can send you to Hell.

“Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels” Matthew 25:41

Did God just condemn them on the left? Actually, no. Read it in context, and you will see that God is concerned with what you actually do to help and to serve others. Not Religion. Not dead, Faith. Not selfishness, but selflessness. Are you in it for you? Or are you in it for God? He said, “Depart from me, you cursed.” He did not say, I curse you.

Then notice this: “prepared for the devil and his angels.” Hell was not created for, nor was it even intended for, us. Mankind. It was a horrible place that God created for the Devil and the Angels that followed him. This is why He delays His return.

”The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead, He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9

So does God.

“When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.” Matthew 6:2-4

Amen! However, do not stay away from the only Way, Truth, and Life who loves you, and wants to set you free. For who the Son sets free is free indeed.

Peter

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William Lane Craig vs. Christopher Hitchens

Ever listened to this debate @Emre ? And give me your thoughts before I engage?

If the universe began to exist and its cause is timeless, spaceless, immaterial, and enormously powerful, what best explains the transition from a timeless cause to a temporal effect unless that cause possesses volition, since an impersonal and mechanically sufficient cause would produce its effect eternally rather than at a finite point in time.

Do you affirm the existence of objective moral obligations, and if so, on what metaphysical basis are such obligations grounded if the Creator neither reveals moral law nor exercises evaluative authority over human actions, given that obligation appears to imply not merely design but personal authority and accountability.

If God created rational beings capable of knowing truth and pursuing ultimate meaning, what explanation is there for permanent divine non-communication, and does the hypothesis of total revelatory silence better account for human religious consciousness than the possibility of selective historical revelation.

Does your understanding of the Creator include intrinsic teleology, such that the universe and human life possess real purpose, or does it account only for origin without intention, and if purpose is affirmed, how is that purpose epistemically accessible in the absence of disclosure from the one who intends it.

What is your epistemological justification for affirming a Creator while denying the possibility of revelation or miracle, and is that denial based on evidential evaluation of specific historical claims or on a prior methodological commitment that restricts divine action to the initial moment of cosmogenesis.

If a transcendent Creator exists, what principled metaphysical reason would render a resurrection event impossible, since the denial of such an event would require either a limitation on divine power or an assumption about the closed nature of physical causation that itself requires philosophical defense.

Is it coherent to maintain that a Creator capable of intentional action in bringing about a rationally structured universe is nevertheless permanently non-relational, given that the act of creation itself appears to be purposive and thus expressive of rational agency.

If God establishes a morally significant world in which human choices carry genuine weight, how should one understand divine non-involvement in relation to the moral character traditionally attributed to deity, and does permanent non-engagement risk collapsing into functional indifference.

Finally, is your deism the result of a positive philosophical construction developed independently of revealed religion, or is it a residual position formed by subtracting specific doctrines such as incarnation and miracle from a broader theistic framework, and how does that origin affect its explanatory completeness.

…and we’ll take it from here brother.

J.

You are absolutely right that many religious figures exploit faith. Some preach temperance and secretly drink. Some preach sexual purity and commit adultery. Some speak of humility while living in excess. That is not rare. It is real. And it is ugly.

But I would challenge the inference. Hypocrisy does not disprove the moral standard being preached. It exposes the weakness of the person preaching it. In fact, hypocrisy only makes sense if the moral rule is real. If fidelity were meaningless, adultery would not be scandalous. If greed were not wrong, luxurious excess while preaching sacrifice would not provoke moral outrage. Your anger assumes objective moral standards. That actually fits better with theism than with moral relativism.
There is also something else happening psychologically. When leaders betray trust, people feel manipulated. The instinctive response is to distance oneself from the entire structure that allowed the betrayal. Deism can function as a kind of philosophical distancing. It says, “I will believe in a Creator, but I will not trust religious institutions or claims of revelation.” That move is understandable emotionally. But it is not automatically justified intellectually. The corruption of representatives does not entail the nonexistence of revelation. It may simply mean revelation is mediated through flawed humans.

As for the wealthy preacher telling the poor to be grateful while living in luxury, that is a moral failure, not a theological refutation. One must ask whether the foundational teachings themselves endorse that lifestyle, or whether the leader is contradicting them. If the teachings condemn greed and demand generosity, then the corrupt leader is violating his own framework, not exposing its falsity.

So I would say this directly: if your issue is scientific coherence, let us examine the specific claims carefully. If your issue is hypocrisy, I agree with you that it is morally serious. But hypocrisy does not logically move us from revealed religion to deism. It only proves that human beings, including religious ones, are inconsistent.

The real question remains untouched: if a Creator exists, is it more plausible that He would never communicate with the rational beings He created, or that some claims of communication might be genuine even if some claimants are corrupt?

Your objections are understandable. They just do not settle the metaphysical question.

You agree @Emre ?

J.

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Also Do not live your life independent from God. That is the basic sin. Know that God is and that He is the rewarder of those who serve Him. Always be mindful of God in everything you do. Take this to the level of salvation by confessing your sins–all the times you did not acknowledge God in things that you did or were. Then believe in the righteous act of God’s Son at the cross for the forgiveness of all those sins, and you will be saved and not suffer spiritual death and you will be clean and become a child of the living God. It will be by God’s grace, not because of anything that you did or made an effort to do.

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I hear the same thing when I share the gospel with the homeless in my neighborhood. They tell me about some religious leader of the church or will bring up something the church did many years ago. They’re view of the gospel of Jesus is based on what they see of the church, and often they are right. After much frustration and not being able to get two words in, I’ve learned to say, “I’m not talking about the church. I’m telling you about Jesus.” When I say that, they have no reply and most will stop their argument long enough to listen. So I tell them about Jesus, who He is, what He’s done and how being a Christian is not about a religion, but having a relationship with Him. The basics of our faith is believing that He is who He says He is. He is our God who took on human flesh and became one of us that He might take on our sin and pay its penalty. It’s been done for all people and the only thing left for us is to receive it, believe it and trust in it. When that happens, His death becomes our death. Our sin is paid for and He comes and lives in our heart. From that moment on we become a child of God; His Spirit indwelling us, leading us, and so much more.

This is something the homeless can understand. It’s not about the physical church or hypocritical people who claim His name. I can’t speak to that nor do I want to. It’s about Jesus and anyone who’s being led towards truth must start with Him. We all have to give Him an answer and our answer will be either yes or no. There’s no middle ground. There’s no fence sitting. I would say to you not to look at the church. Look to Jesus.

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@Emre

I sure understand what you are saying.

I used to buy my groceries from a large supermarket. I thought I was purchasing wisely, but it became known that investigators had turned up widespread fraud with this grocery chain. The customers were being told one thing about the grocery products, but were actually being sold far inferior substitutes that were far less healthy, even dangerous. The managers were in on it and it seems the fraud may have actually come from the company’s executives. So, I realized I can not trust grocery stores, and I have completely stopped buying any groceries. I also won’t eat at restaurants who buy groceries. I am getting very thin, and I am pretty sure my determination will eventually kill me, but at least I will die knowing I was not being fooled by those grocery charlatans.

(smile) (I hope you get my point)
KP

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Gee golly KPuff, I would just grow my own food at that point.
:rofl:

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