To @all Do to several requests I am reopening the topic. This is how we learn, if we are willing to listen
Peter
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I love your leadership @PeterC. Thank you for being an amazing staff member and a true Christian leader.
Thank you @PeterC
Gospel
I dont know what a New World Translation is, is that like the New Kings James version? Sorry im not being sarcastic or anything. Im seriously dumb founded and maybe a little slow, but hey i have a good personality. So does the New World Translation consist of the new and old testament i guess is what i should be asking? @Gospel
@d-o.o-b your famous words. “if you dont like the conversation remove yourself from the topic”. We are Christians before anything, and i dont believe being rude is in our nature. Love thy neighbor. Lets not cross lines here, just a suggestion my friend and brother. Correct me if im wrong
im in jail and can not visit outside web pages or links. Is your book/bible the Holy Bible we Christians use?
Sorry. The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures is a translation of the Bible. We base our beliefs on all 66 of its books, which include both the “Old Testament” and the “New Testament.”
@Gospel So it is a version of the Holy Bible that us Christians use? I only ask because you mention God, and Jesus but seems like your understanding is different than we are taught as Christians. So im just confused i guess. Im going to go back a read some of yours and peterC conversation and see what is going on here. Im trying to see if you are reading a holy bible then is you interpretation of it different then how we read it.
I have no idea what you are getting at, or your point @paulhinkle.
J.
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How can you respond to the Watchtower’s claim of many false prophesies of the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ? From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society publications have made a series of predictions about Christ’s Second Coming and the advent of God’s kingdom, each of which has gone unfulfilled. Almost all the predictions for 1878, 1881, 1914, 1918, and 1925 were later reinterpreted as a confirmation of the eschatological framework of the Bible Student movement and Jehovah’s Witnesses, with many of the predicted events viewed as having taken place invisibly. Further expectations were held for the arrival of Armageddon in 1975.
They blame these errors in false prophesy on the “unclarity of the Holy Spirit”
The standard technique of critics appears to be to present a list of alleged “false prophecies”, the longer the better. There are dozens of such lists on the Internet. These take the form of quotations from The Watchtower and other Witness publications.
Whereas the majority of the quotes themselves are accurate, the context in which they were presented - both the immediate context of the printed page and the historical context - is omitted. Selective quotations ensure that anything that gives the impression of certainty is usually included, whereas any cautionary statements are omitted.
I am not for a moment denying that the publications - in particular the earlier ones - have at times published information that was speculative in nature and turned out to be mistaken. But the fact is that, for each of the dates commonly touted by critics as ‘false prophecies’ (1874, 1914, 1925, 1975), Watch Tower publications had published cautionary statements to the effect that it was by no means certain what would happen. Consider, for example, the following statements, which emphasise that the basis for the conclusions was Bible study not some message from God:
With regard to 1878: It should be noted that ‘The Watchtower’ was not published until 1879. So it was hardly a matter of a failed prediction.
With regard to 1914 : “We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises . . . We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology. We have merely laid these before you, leaving it for each to exercise his own faith or doubt in respect to them” (Zion’s Watch Tower, January 1, 1908, page 4110)
With regard to 1925: “The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year.” (The Watch Tower, January 1, 1925, page 3)
With regard to 1975: “‘What about the year 1975? What is it going to mean, dear friends?’ asked Brother Franz. ‘Does it mean that Armageddon is going to be finished, with Satan bound, by 1975? It could! It could! All things are possible with God. Does it mean that Babylon the Great is going to go down by 1975? It could. Does it mean that the attack of Gog of Magog is going to be made on Jehovah’s witnesses to wipe them out, then Gog himself will be put out of action? It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And don’t any of you be specific in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975.” (The Watchtower, 15 October 1966, page 631)
It’s obvious, therefore, that the situation was by no means as clear-cut as opposers would have us believe. By omitting these more cautionary statements, many of which are in the same articles as the quotations they like to print, enemies of JEHOVAH’s Witnesses give a misleading picture of events and endeavour to make a suggested interpretation look like a prophecy.
Isaiah 5:20 – “Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness.”
Matthew 7:15–16 – “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits.”
2 Corinthians 11:13–14 – “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.”
Galatians 1:8–9 – “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”
1 Timothy 4:1 – “The Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons.”
2 Peter 2:1–2 – “But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies… And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed.”
1 John 4:1 – “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.”
These verses make it clear that Scripture warns against cults and false teachers by urging believers to test everything against God’s Word, to avoid calling wrong “right,” and to hold fast to the true gospel.
You agree?
J.
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Gospel, you really seem to have this down pat and have an answer for everything ! What about Joannes Greiber the known spiritualist who helped the Jehovah’s Witnessess in there interpretation of John 1:1 in the NWT ? Also anyone that claims Jesus is not God and God alone has missed the whole message of the Gospel. The New World Translation in which Taze Russell was instrumental in putting this absolutely worst translation of the holy scriptures that is known- he admitted in court when he was there for tax ivasion, that he did not know Greek or Hebrew !! (Kingdom of the Cults)
Johannes Greber was a former Catholic priest who became a spiritist and published his own New Testament translation in 1937, which the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society (Jehovah’s Witnesses) historically cited as support for their New World Translation (NWT) before distancing themselves from him in the early 1980s.
Brother @BrotherDavid I believe there is a fine line here, he is clearly in the wrong, not willing to dialogue, and the “lurkers” will see you and me as “combative” in trying to assist this erring brother.
Be careful.
J.
That is why we are Christian soldiers brother
I’ve seen the patty-cake, kumbayah liberal sensorship…
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Yes. For decades, JEHOVAH’s Witnesses used, printed, and distributed various versions of the Bible. But then we saw the need to produce a new translation that would better help people to learn the “accurate knowledge of truth,” which is God’s will for everyone. (1 Timothy 2:3, 4) Thus, in 1950 we began to release portions of our modern-language Bible, the New World Translation. This Bible has been faithfully and accurately translated into over 130 languages.
Languages change over time, and many translations contain obscure or obsolete expressions that are difficult to understand. So a Bible was needed that was easy to understand.
Moreover a translation was needed that was loyal to God’s word, as in many versions the divine name, JEHOVAH, is not used in the Holy Scriptures.
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“You must not murder.
https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/exodus/20/
This translation was used occasionally in support [NOTE: not as a source] of renderings of Matthew 27:52, 53 and John 1:1, as given in the New World Translation and other authoritative Bible versions.
But as indicated in a foreword to the 1980 edition [1] of The New Testament by Johannes Greber, this translator relied on “God’s Spirit World” [as opposed to Bible scholarship] to clarify for him how he should translate difficult passages. It is stated: “His wife, a medium of God’s Spiritworld was often instrumental in conveying the correct answers from God’s Messengers to Pastor Greber.” The Watchtower has deemed it improper to make use of a translation that has such a close rapport with spiritism. (Deuteronomy 18:10-12) The scholarship that forms the basis for the rendering of the above-cited texts in the New World Translation is sound and for this reason does not depend at all on Greber’s translation for authority. Nothing is lost, therefore, by ceasing to use his New Testament. [2]
[1] As opposed to the 1937 edition previously used. (Watchtower 1962 9/15 p. 554 “The Word”—Who Is He? According to John.)
[2] Watchtower 1983 4/1 p. 31 Questions From Readers.
I believe that the Father alone is THE God, the Supreme One, to whom all owe worship and to whom all, including the Son, are rightly subject. Our God is therefore the same One who is the God of Jesus Christ.
As the apostle Paul pointed out to fellow believers: “There is actually to us one God the Father, out of whom all things are, and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and we through him.” (1 Cor. 8:6)
“The head of the Christ is God.” (1 Cor. 11:3) As Christians are the property of Christ, so Christ is God’s property. Wrote the inspired apostle Paul: “You belong to Christ; Christ, in turn, belongs to God.” (1 Cor. 3:23)
The New World Translation Committee was formed in 1947. Brother Charles Taze Russell died on a preaching tour in October 1916.
The claim that Charles Taze Russell was “convinced of tax evasion” is historically inaccurate, as there is no record of him being criminally convicted of such an offense. What you are probably referring to is the case of the “Miracle Wheat”. Brother Russell was interested in anything related to the Scriptural prediction that the desert would blossom as a rose and the earth yield her increase. So, when the public press reported a new and unusual strain of wheat, called “Miracle Wheat” by its original grower, Brother Russell reported this in The Watchtower, along with a government report on it.
Some Watchtower readers contacted the grower, who was in no way connected with the Watchtower Society, and purchased some of the wheat. When theirs produced seed they offered it as a contribution to the Society. The original grower sold the seed at $1.25 a pound, so they suggested their contribution be priced at $1.00, and all the money received be given to the Society. The Society made no claim for the wheat on its own knowledge, though it won several State Fair grand prizes before it wore itself out. Brother Russell neither named it nor profited from it; the money went as a donation into Christian missionary work. When others criticized this sale, all who had contributed were told that if they were dissatisfied their money would be returned, and the money was held for a year for this purpose. Not a single person requested it back. The only critics were those who had no real knowledge of the matter, which was purely a donation sale for the benefit of the Society—as open and aboveboard as a church cake sale.
The “perjury” charge was not made in court, but in a tract written later by an irresponsible slanderer against whom Brother Russell had brought a libel case. The official record of the case in question (Police Court of the City of Hamilton, Ontario, March 17, 1913) says:
“Q. You don’t profess, then, to be schooled in the Latin language? A. No, sir. Q. Or in Greek? A. No, sir.”
After this he was asked if he knew individual Greek letters, and it was over this that the question of his knowledge of Greek arose. This false “perjury” claim has been repeated by many who never went to this Canadian city to check this old court record to see if they are spreading truth or a lie. Not only has the question they “quote” been reworded, but Brother Russell had specifically said that he did not know Greek.
The extent to which critics will deliberately falsify such quotations is shown in another tract that says Jehovah’s witnesses deny the ransom and tries to support this with a quotation from Volume 5, page 127, of the Studies in the Scriptures: “Jesus’ suffering would not pay the debt of sin.” Here is what the book actually says: “True, the wages of sin was not suffering, but death; and hence suffering on our Lord’s part would not alone pay the wages of sin for us: it was absolutely necessary that he should ‘taste death for every man.’” The book says exactly the opposite of what the tract claims it says.