Is Being Gay a Sin?

[KPuff]

You said:

@anon75384934

You aren’t going to magically change them. The fear of hell isn’t going to change them. Beating them does not work. Sports does not work. Therapy doesn’t work. There is no vaccine, no cure. No science can explain why ten percent of the population are different let alone how to prevent it

This is a wild and flailing rant, with which I mostly agree, (I think), except your postulate that “there is no cure”

Just as God has said the sins of His Nation Israel are “incurable” :

Jeremiah 30:12-14

"For thus says the LORD: 'Your affliction is incurable, Your wound is severe. There is no one to plead your cause, That you may be bound up; You have no healing medicines. All your lovers have forgotten you; They do not seek you; For I have wounded you with the wound of an enemy, With the chastisement of a cruel one, For the multitude of your iniquities, Because your sins have increased.

He then actually does offer The Cure!:

Jeremiah 30:17

For I will restore health to you, and heal you of your wounds,’ says the LORD, 'Because they called you an outcast saying: “This is Zion; No one seeks her.”

God Himself is the cure.

You also said:

@anon75384934

And this will not stop gay people from existing. More will be born. You will just have to keep killing and killing your kin. That may be the future ahead.

This prophecy is unfounded, unscriptural, and inflammatory. Nobody is “killing”, even though sin surely is.

I know that you ascribe to the teachings of Terry Pratchett, and you publish his fantastic words of his fabled specter “Death”:
“You need to believe in things that aren’t true, how else will they become?”.
In this quote, “Death” is tryng to convince Susan that things like justice, mercy and duty do not really exist. But they do exist, in an Eternal Person, Jesus. And they do exist in all those who He has called into His body. Not because we believe in them, but even though most don’t. All your raging against the body of Christ will not erase the mercy and justice regularly promoted and fought for by God’s through His ecclesia.

I hope this is understood in the Spirit in which it is offered.
Peace
KP

[Johann]

@KPuff

Terry Pratchett, and you publish his fantastic words of his fabled specter “Death”:
“You need to believe in things that aren’t true, how else will they become?”.

Sir Terry Pratchett (1948–2015), one of the most widely read fantasy writers of the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries, knighted for services to literature.

Interesting.

J.

[anon75384934]

It is a prophecy based on history. This has happened before, it will happen again.

And so is this prophecy Those who bring great suffering upon others will reap great suffering upon themselves.

And as I said, these are your family members. Your blood. Your future. Your past.

And yes, it is an emotional plea toward decency.

But don’t take my word for it. History will unfold as it will.

But historically, the Nazis rounded up the Homosexuals with the Jews. Odd that a child born of sin would be treated in the same manner as God’s original chosen people. They have been targeted and murdered. Mathew Shepherd is one of many names of young people killed because of the rhetoric used against them by the church.

In the time when Moses was born, babies were rounded up and murdered. As it was in the days when Christ was born.

A focus to murder a group of people usually marks a reality that the devil does not want born. The death of many to stop one who will come that will rise above all others for a Divine purpose. To lead, to heal, to save, to restore.

Perhaps a Messianic figure akin to Joseph in the book of Genesis will arise to save a multitude of lives. Or perhaps a Spiritual leader that will restore faith or guide us through an age of Spiritual Darkness.

But it is also possible that a prophecy was given to the Church a very long time ago that a man or woman would rise up to bring an end to it. And succeed. I do not know of such things. But it would explain why the Church is so hell bent to kill all of them. As the Church behaves so much like Pharoah and Caesar to destroy life, and refuses to let go of its destructive obsession.

Again, time will tell.

[anon75384934]

Yes, a beautiful quote regarding Santa Clause and higher aspirations. We start by believing in a fictional character that teaches children about charity, in order to help children to believe in charity itself.

If you ground up all the universe, where would you find one ounce of charity in all its workings? It is only a reality in the minds and workings of man. But we start young by believing in the smaller lie that we might work up to the bigger lie so that it might become real throuh us.

The same with all such qualities. In you and through you, by your focus focus and your faith, worlds of reality are born into reality or fade to nonexistence.

In one reality, the sun rises again after 3 days of darkness. In another, there is just a ball of fire that appears in the sky.

Such is the enlightenment of man toward meaning, through fantasy and dream and becoming something more than a beast in the field.

[SFsergio]

Why are you referring to homosexuals as “born of sin”?

But historically, the Nazis rounded up the Homosexuals with the Jews. Odd that a child born of sin would be treated in the same manner as God’s original chosen people.

Sorry @Tillman these posts are difficult to understand. Also what “Church” are you referring to that is killing?

I would hope that when someone comes foward seeking guidance from scripture, that we offer God’s truth with love in our hearts not condemnation. That is the difference with Christians.

We welcome all to our fold.

God bless all

[KPuff]

@SFsergio
He’s quoting the character “Death”, (without quotation marks or attribution) from a scene in Terry Pratchett’s fantasy novel, Hogfather (Father Christmas). I haven’t seen it either.

[anon75384934]

Look at their replies. This is indicative of who they are and what they lack. Do not chase after an acceptance or love they will never give. In the words of Jennifer Knapp, look for “a faith that will be faithful” to you.

There is a path you can walk where you are both a Christian and accepted as a gay person. But it will never be with them.

God’s love is uncondtional, and God’s plan is beyond anything they can imagine.

Ask God to seperate truth from lie, and then pull every thread you can find until whatever power they hold over you is undone.

[Bruce_Leiter]

Yes, @anon75384934, but those are the obvious sinners. I have dealt with professing Christians who seem to be believers, but they do unChristian things and deviate from God’s path as well as unchurched believers who are really believers who have been turned off by the church at some point. My point is that people’s outward actions don’t always show me whether or not they are genuinely committed Christians; only God knows their hearts. Thus, I leave them in God’s hands to judge them now and at the final judgment.

[m801]

The Catholic Church teaches that being gay is not inherently sinful, but any sexual act outside of marriage between a man and a woman is a sin. Some conservatives who were critical of Pope Francis’ overtures reacted negatively to Pope Leo’s meeting with Martin, while others praised it as a welcome development.

[anon75384934]

I will need to research what this recent event means. Perhaps hopefully and metaphorically speaking, the Church will begin to realize that the world is not flat, nor does the sun circle the Earth. That sometimes what we first thought was not the case at all, and we can pursue better goals that heal the divide between God and humanity rather than increasing it.

[m801]

please share what you find. thank you.

[NortonNowlinMA]

I wonder what homosexuals were called during the time at Sodom and Gomorrah? It was probably a euphemism like the word gay, which is a perversion of the word that was used for over a thousand years in the English language to mean happy. How can a human being be happy in the torrid pit of sin? Homosexuals are not gay, but very disturbed, as are transvestites, voyeurs, fetishists, pedophiles, bestiality, and transgenders. They are suffering from mental diseases called psychopathology. People with psycho-sexual disorders can hold jobs and appear as normal human beings, but their personal lives are really confused and in disarray. The pathology of homosexual behavior is what cannot be seen in ordinary living and must be hidden from the view of heterosexuals. God almighty declared homosexuality and bestiality sins because they were basically unnatural and lewd. Men lying with men, women lying with women, and men and women lying animals are behaviors borne out of unnatural lust.
The Babylonian King Hammurabi fashioned the Hammurabi Code after the Ten Commandments and the Hebrew laws given by the God of Israel to Moses and Abraham before the rise of Babylon. Hammurabi made homosexuality a crime and gave as a reason the reality that such behavior was detrimental and destructive to the family. Death was the Babylonian penalty was homosexual behavior as it was under Hebrew law. When human society and law declares what is unnatural and diseased a life style, such vulgar behavior can become as it was in Sodom and Gomorrah when the Lord God destroyed the two cities with fire and brimstone. It is tantamount to declaring murder as normal behavior. Hence, homosexuality is a horrible sin and should be regarded as a crime.

[anon75384934]

@NortonNowlinMA

Actually, Sodom amd Gromorah’s destruction had nothing to do with homosexuality. Otherwise every culture that had embraced it would have fallen the same way. Greece and Rome would have met a fiery salty doom a long time ago.

Sodom and Gromorah were destroyed because they were possessed by a spirit of destruction and chaos that lead them to abandon order, law, justice, fair treatment, and hospitalitiy. They chose instead to embrace lust, rape, rage, violence, malice, spite, greed and so on. They reaped the fruit of the seed they sowed, destruction brings destruction. Life brings life. Love and conpassion brings love and compassion.

The angels test humanity from time to time. And one way in which humanity is tested is by how far they will go to snuff out the light of another. This is a collective test. God measures the Righteousness in a given space- Behavior such as showing mercy, kindness, grace, hospitalitiy, people who act as mediators to keep or bring peace and who seek and aid and save the lost.. As Christ does. As Lot did.

But where as Lot alone could do nothing more to turn the tide of darkness, Christ is a light in a city that burns bright for all to see so that we might see the path to walk.

The spirit that possesses you, (in general not personally) takes over your personality. It changes you the same way that a domesticated pig turns wild when set lose in the wood. It rides you until you die and then it roams arid places looking for another person to possess And when you die, you become like that spirit, lost with no place to call home, attaching to the homeless and lost. Such is the fate of the prodigal son who leaves his father’s house and lives in another (lives in another spirit contrary to Our Father’s).

The Holy Spirit is the only Spirit that takes you Home. It creates bonds of friendship and family and restores what is broken. She is a mighty mansion with many rooms, a good home for all of God’s children, whom Our Father never abandons. When they are lost, He spends day and night looking for some way to bring them home so that none of His children remain exiled or far away.. Within Her are all the qualities that sustain life, living waters that ressurrect all life and transforms life unto a New Creation with Eternal Life.

To be a New Creation, you have only to put down the spirit of condemnation, damnation, and judgement and invite Christ into your life to fill the void to replace that wicked spirit. Set down the killing stones and take on His burden with great joy for it is light and a blessing to all the Earth.

For in Him, a New Day dawns. A New Way is found. You have nothing to prove to your Father in heavem, who loves you and gives good gifts. You don’t need to destroy the life of another person in order to prove yourself ro God or in order to kill the sin in your own heart. Forgive, release, and be free.

The Holy Spirit sets you free. Embrace the Unconditional Love of God and walk in all of Her ways and you will never be lead astray again.

[Bruce_Leiter]

@anon75384934, your beginning statement is not based on the biblical evidence as follows:

Gen 13:13 Now the men of Sodom were wicked, great sinners against the LORD….

Gen 19:5 And they called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them.”
Gen 19:6 Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 and said, “I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly….

In many passages, to know someone means to have sex with them. The Sodomite men didn’t want to have sex with Lot’s daughters but with the “men,” the angels he had welcomed into his house. That’s the only sin the Bible mentions to define the Sodomites’ great sin.

[anon75384934]

@Bruce_Leiter

No, you are mistaken, Bruce. You have mistakenly confused a correlation for causality.

Yes, the Sodomites told Lot to hand over the visiting men in order to “know” them. But not with any form of consent. The Sodomites never asked for any sort of permission from the men/Angels in order to become “aquainted.” The Sodomites wanted Lot to hand the Angels over in order to rape them.

And the RAPE portion of that statement weighs far heavier here than the fact that they wanted to “know” men.

This is made evident when they say to Lot,

^{9 ….}“Stand back!”… “This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them.”

Their intention was clearly to do harm, not to have an orgy.

Further more, Rape is not sex. It is an act of Aggressive Domination and Humiliation. Pushing your own will upon another. That is the evil here.

The following link better explains what Rape is:

https://advocates.byu.edu/know-the-myths-and-realities-of-sexual-assault

[Bruce_Leiter]

Of course, @anon75384934, they wanted to rape them. But the fact that they wanted to do it with men instead of women shows that they are homosexuals, who horribly want to force themselves for selfish gratification on a person of their own sex, thus showing the deep, violent depravity of Sodom that warranted their death penalty from God.

[Joanne.1966]

I’m going to agree. I’ve held this position prior to returning to Christ that homosexuality isn’t how we are created. We can walk alongside them, love them as friends, offer encouragement and hope, but to condone it is wrong. We need to condemn the complacency. Period. Tolerance, love, kindness, respect and decency have zero to do with sin in any form, and as Christians we are commanded to love one another, not to love and support sinful behavior. That’s like saying abortion is ok in some circumstances. No. No it isn’t. It’s never ok. Why would we make concessions for any other sin?

[KPuff]

@Samuel_23

Now, it’s also true that God hates sin, but He doesn’t hate sinners. He loves people so much that He sent His Son to die for all sinners (John 3:16, Romans 5:8). But at the same time, those who stubbornly reject Him, blinded by pride and false self-assurance, will face judgment. Pride keeps people from repentance, and without repentance, sin leads to death (Romans 6:23).

Right-you-are @Samuel_23, Sexual deviation from God’s plan is sin. But let’s drop down a level; let’s look at what makes “homosexuality”, as it is erroneously called, SIN.

At least two things make it SIN

God is Holy! Pure in every way, (not even a shadow of variation).
God is monogamous.
Anything that is unlike God, (ungodly) is then SIN.

Isaiah 61:10

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

John 3:29

He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom’s voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled.

Revelation 21:2

Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Sin is destructive; it is demanding, debilitating, and deadly. Love compels the disciple of Jesus to warn those who are systematically being disintegrated though a destructive lifestyle or practice. The same way we would warn someone who was in a burning building, because of the peril they are in, we warn those in other forms of destruction because of the peril they are in

Psalm 38:3-8

There is no soundness in my flesh Because of Your anger, Nor any health in my bones Because of my sin.
For my iniquities have gone over my head; Like a heavy burden they are too heavy for me.
My wounds are foul and festering Because of my foolishness.
I am troubled, I am bowed down greatly; I go mourning all the day long.
For my loins are full of inflammation, And there is no soundness in my flesh.
I am feeble and severely broken; I groan because of the turmoil of my heart.

Proverbs 8:35-36

For whoever finds me finds life, And obtains favor from the LORD;
But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death."

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 7:8

But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead

1 Corinthians 6:18

Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body.

A true disciple of Jesus has nothing in his heart against the victim of any sin, but instead is compelled to warn that person, motivated by love. Any form of hatred, scorning, despising, loathing, deriding, belittling, or defaming a victim of sin does not come from The Holy Spirit of God, but from the flesh, and it is to be conquered in Jesus. When a Christian warns someone practicing any ungodliness, that their practice is destroying them, they are “loving their neighbor as themselves.”

My viewpoint.
KP

[anon75384934]

@Bruce_Leiter

You are welcome to your opinion, Bruce, but the Scripture here simply does not support that. You are adding your opinion based on your own personal bias against homosexuality- whether that be based on cultural upbringing or some other reason. And that is easy to do.

Scholars and Theologians have discussed this Scripture in Genesis to great lengths, debating on the nature of what lead God to destroy these cities.

And it comes through a thorough examination of Scripture that Sodom’s behavior is perfectly contrasted by the hospitable treatment of the Angels by Abraham and Lot. Further still, both Abraham and Lot behaved as Intercessors on behalf of Sodom and the Angels (when Lot tried to protect them from the city), showing righteousness and right behavior by trying to protect others despite their sins, which is an expression of Unconditional Love, ie the Holy Spirit.

And this is in stark contrast to Sodom, which threatened Rape and Violence.

Furthermore, there are only a very few limited verses of Scripture that you can actually use to condemn homosexual behavior. Almost as if they were added in. Don’t you think that it is a little odd considering all of the cultures that had homosexual behavior?

If it was really the sin that its made out to be, wouldn’t it have been mentioned specifically a lot more times in Scripture throughout the Bible instead of just being skirtted around? Instead of just being grouped into a large group of sins under the title, Abomination, and referenced from afar?

And isn’t it quite a bit Strange that Paul would send a male slave back to a Roman Master, telling the slave to obey his Master, when it waa perfectly legal for Masters to have sex with their slaves? Don’t you think? Without any hint of sins to avoid, like laying with a man as one does with a woman? (Philemon)

Instead, Ephesians 6:5-8 says,

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with sincere heart, as you obey Christ; not with eye-service, as though you pleased men, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart".

Why leave a possibility for sexual sin? Almost as if someone added something somewhere.

My positions on homosexuality & the Bible

[anon75384934]

The problem here is the assumption that you are correct in your thinking. Even the Pharisees thought they were right. They had the Word of God. They had the Commandments. But they were so far from what God wanted that Jesus spoke of WOE for them, the teachers of the Law, who roam both land and sea in search of converts only to turn the converts into twice the sons of hell as themselves.

Even Jeremiah spoke of lies told by Scribes. How smug were the religious, not knowing how precarious their own situation was.

You talk about homosexuals the same way the Jews spoke of the Samaritans.

But it was the Samaritan kindness that was praised by Christ, how they were good neighbors. He did not count all the eays they were wrong compared to the Jews.

A Samaritan woman asked Christ about where they were suppose to worship, as they said one thing and the Jews aaid another.

And Christ responds,

“Woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. …The hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth…. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth” (John 4.21-24

Change the Spirit, and you will no longer be so concerned with the flesh. Or what your neighbor does. Especially those who don’t believe the same as you.