1 John 1:3 NKJV: “That which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ.”
If Duality why Baptize in The name of Father, Son, And Holyghost
Would hope to hear from some Duality perspectives
@Corlove13, read the whole Gospel of John and notice that God reveals a duality until chapters 14, 15, and 16, where Jesus describes “another Helper or Counselor or Comforter” to help us understand that God is a Trinity (three Persons in the one God). The Holy Spirit is the third Person of God, who stays with believers along with the first two Persons. As our one God, all blessings come from the Father through Jesus by the Holy Spirit.
Trinity.
We baptize in the singular Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Three Persons.
One God.
Holy Trinity.
And do you believe- that just means to say, a name and dip them in water?
@Corlove13, the baptismal blessing comes from Jesus’ own words that say that God has one name and that he is three Persons:
Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit….
Actually the trinity and the three fold titles of baptism was a later development. In Matthew 28:19, Jesus was on the Mt. of Olives, there was no water and they were not baptizing. Baptism was only known by the early Church in the Name of Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38), Acts 8:16 In the Name of the Lord Jesus / Acts 10:48 In the Name of the Lord / Acts 19: In the Name of the Lord Jesus.
Britannica Encyclopedia, 11th Edition, Volume 3, page 365 – Baptism was changed from the name of Jesus to words Father, Son & Holy Ghost in 2nd Century.
Canney Encyclopedia of Religion, page 53 – The early church baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until the second century.
Hastings Encyclopedia of Religion, Volume 2 – Christian baptism was administered using the words, “in the name of Jesus.” page 377. Baptism was always in the name of Jesus until time of Justin Martyr, page 389.
Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume 2, page 263 – Here the authors acknowledged that the baptismal formula was changed by their church.
Schaff – Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, Volume 1, page 435 – The New Testament knows only the baptism in the name of Jesus.
Hastings Dictionary of Bible, page 88 – It must be acknowledged that the three fold name of Matthew 28:19 does not appear to have been used by the primitive church, but rather in the name of Jesus, Jesus Christ or Lord Jesus.
So are you saying that in the name of Father, Son, And HolyGhost (f,s,h) was never in original manuscripts but was added?
Or this:The formula “in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (Matthew 28:19) appears in the oldest surviving Greek manuscripts (such as Codex Sinaiticus, 4th century), but some scholars debate if this Trinitarian phrase was in the earliest original manuscripts. It is not present throughout the entire Bible, as the Old Testament does not explicitly use this threefold formula.
So then that doesn’t matter because it may not just be talking about water.
One is immersed by teaching them to do all Hecommanded.
Name can mean the reality of the presence of God as in Exodus;
In Exodus 23- God promises to send an angel (or messenger) to guide the Israelites, stating, “My Name is in him”. This phrase indicates the angel acts with divine authority, representing God’s presence, rather than referring to a specific proper name. The angel is sometimes referred to as the Angel of the Lord.
No offense but should one derive a formula around that? Sense it doesn’t say everything it does not mean by that?
Here it does not say the Name…hence, name as stated in other post could mean presence. The reality
That’s not all it means, no.
But the universal Christian witness and practice does involve the Sacrament of Baptism, which involves the application of water and invoking the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This has been normative Christian baptismal practice since the time of the Apostles. Because Jesus Christ Himself taught us as such in Matthew 28:19 to make disciples and baptize in the Name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. And so the Christian Church always has.
I’m willing to bet a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts that you didn’t actually go and search up each and every source, but that you have plucked these from a pre-made list from either some literature, or website.
I’ve noticed that’s cults have this habit of cherry-picking sources and providing them as a ready-made list. I suspect this is the case because most cults don’t want their members doing any independent research–after all, the worst thing for a cult is a free mind.
So if no, what else ?
Does Jesus say make disciples and baptize? Or go make disciples baptizing?
Found it:
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
So what it’ saying to me is surround them in the reality, the presence of the Father, Son, and Holyghost by teaching them to do all things He commanded them.
So the Key is to be alive, be in a place to receive Help when needed, to have fellowship, to become like what you are entangled with.
Jesus said to baptize.
Baptism is baptism.
Yes He did…and yes it is….But to surround or immerse in whom or what?
In the name, meaning reality - of the Father, son, and Holyghost.
Do you recall who Israel was identified with in the Red sea?
Based on the themes in Dallas Willard’s teachings, particularly regarding spiritual formation and the kingdom of God, the identification of Israel with Moses under the cloud, in the sea, and with the Rock (1 Cor. 10) represents a profound, shared participation in the living, guiding presence of God, rather than mere historical, symbolic events.
In summary, for Willard, this identification means that Israel, like modern believers, was called to live in direct communion with God, allowing His presence to guide, deliver, and sustain them through their leaders and divine intervention.
Exodus 23:21 that the angel “has my name in him” refers to a divine agent who possesses the authority, presence, and essential nature of God, serving as a pre-incarnate manifestation of Jesus. DW
5 But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
Ezekiel
It was round about eighteen thousand measures: and the name of the city from that day shall be, The LORD is there.
Exodus 3:13
13Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell them?”
14God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
15God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord, the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation
Listen Nerd…Enough of your mudslinging. You made some very arrogant snide remarks directed toward me. I have had posts removed and been warned for much less…cool it, brother
@BrotherDavid, do you believe that the words of Jesus quoted by Matthew were actually spoken by Jesus? Matthew was an eyewitness of Jesus’ ministry and words. It was a listening culture at that time more than the visual one we have today. Furthermore, Jesus also promised that the Holy Spirit would help the Apostles recall his words. How can you question the words that Matthew said Jesus said?
If the early church baptized only in Jesus’ name, I say that they were disobeying Jesus’ Great Commission and that the present-day church has corrected that mistake.
Joh 16:13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
Bruce, yes I do believe those were Jesus’ words. I do not believe Matthew added to scripture. Even the catholic church admits to changing the mode od baptism from In the Name of Jesus Christ to the three-fold titles now embraced by most main stream churches
Jesus teaching is 100% clear at John 17:1-6,26–A prayer to his Father- verse 3-This means eternal life, their knowing you( Father) THE ONLY TRUE GOD and the one whom you sent forth Jesus Christ. verse 6=YHVH(Jehovah)- verse 26= YHVH(Jehovah)– 100% clear= the Father is THE ONLY TRUE GOD.
Paul warns all that there are many false gods, then names only the Father as God=1Cor 8:5-6)
This is the true gospel. So according to Jesus if one doesn’t know the Father as the only true God, they wont get eternal life. Satan is hiding these facts by having his false religions teach a false god.
You do know that you can’t get to the Father but through the son…. “And Jesus Christ whom you have sent” Jesus is the mediator. If you only spoke Spanish and the person you want to communicate spoke only English you might need who? Maybe a translator someone that knows both Spanish and English, liken to a mediator one who is both divine and human.
“If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip asks Jesus to “show us the Father.”
“Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?” John 14:7-9
In the Greek text, Jesus uses words that imply more than just a shared mission. He describes a shared essence.
“I and the Father are one.” John 10:30
“No one has ever seen God, but the ‘one and only Son, who is himself God… has made him known.” John 1:18
This connects back to your earlier question about Matthew 7:21. If knowing Jesus is the only way to truly know the Father, then calling him “Lord” without actually “knowing” him or doing the Father’s will is a contradiction.
To Jesus, “knowing” isn’t just intellectual facts, but rather it’s relational intimacy. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus tells the hypocrites, “I never knew you.” He doesn’t say “You didn’t know the rules”; he says there was no relationship.
Peter