Is Hell a Real Place?

Theology
43

On April 28th, 1947, Jesus said the following:

In the evening of the Last Supper, I said to the Eleven who loved Me: ‘When the Comforter comes, He will remind you of everything I told you.’ When I spoke I always bore in mind, in addition to those who were present, all those who would be My disciples in spirit, and with truth and a will to want. The Holy Spirit, Who already with His Grace instills the faculty of remembering God into you, freeing your souls from the hebetude of the Original Sin and relieving them of the obscurities that, because of the sad inheritance of Adam, envelop the brightness of the spirits created by God to enjoy His sight and spiritual knowledge, completes His work of Master by ‘reminding’ the hearts of those who are led by Him and who are the children of God, of what I said, and which constitutes the Gospel. To remind here means to enlighten the spirit of it. Because it is nothing to remember the words of the Gospel if its spirit is not understood.

And the spirit of the Gospel, which is love, can be made understood by the Love, that is, by the Holy Spirit, Who, as He has been the true Writer of the Gospel, is also its only Commentator, because only the Author of a work knows the spirit of it and understands it, even if he does not succeed in making its readers understand it. But where a human author fails, because every human perfection is rich in deficiencies, the Most Perfect and Wise Spirit succeeds. So only the Holy Spirit, the author of the Gospel, is also He Who remembers and comments and completes it in the inmost parts of the soul of God’s children.

‘The Comforter, the Holy Spirit, Whom the Father will send you in My Name, will teach you everything, will remind you of everything I told you.’ (Jn. 14:26)

‘When that Spirit of Truth comes, He will teach you all the truth: because He will not speak by Himself, but will say everything He has heard and will announce you the future. He will glorify Me, because He will take what is Mine and will announce it to you. Everything the Father has is Mine; that is why I said that He will receive what is Mine and will announce it to you.’ (Jn. 16:13-15)

Then if you object that, as the Holy Spirit is the true Author of the Gospel, one fails to understand why He did not remember what is mentioned in this work and what John makes one understand did happen, in the last words that close his Gospel, I reply to you that the thoughts of God are different from those of men, and are always just and not liable to criticism.

Further: if you object that the revelation was closed with the last Apostle, and there was nothing further to add, because the same Apostle says in Revelation: ‘If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him every plague mentioned in the book’ (22:18) *and that can be understood for all the Revelation, the last completion of which is the Revelation by John, I reply to you that with this Work no addition was made to revelation, but only the gaps, brought about by natural causes and by supernatural will, were filled in. And if I wanted to take pleasure in restoring the picture of My Divine Charity, as a restorer of mosaics does replacing the tesserae damaged or missing, reinstating the mosaic in its complete beauty, and I have decided to do it in this century in which mankind is hurling itself towards the Abyss of darkness and horror, can you forbid Me from doing so?

Can you perhaps say that you do not need it, you whose spirits are dull, weak, deaf to lights, voices and invitations from Above?

You ought really to bless Me for increasing with new lights the light that you have and that is no longer sufficient for you ‘to see’ your Savior. To see the Way, the Truth and the Life, and feel that spiritual emotion of the just of My time rise in you, attaining through this knowledge a renewal of your spirits in love, that would be your salvation, because it is an ascent towards perfection.

I do not say you are ‘dead’, but sleeping, drowsy. Like plants during their winter sleep. The divine Sun gives you its refulgence. Awake and bless the Sun that gives you itself, receive it with joy that It may warm you, from the surface to deep inside you, it may rouse you and cover you with flowers and fruits.

Rise. Come to My Gift. (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. V)

44

In my previous post I quoted Jesus saying just that, but He also said that it remains an inspired book. He also said the following:

For this reason, it is proper to specify that the inspired writer ‘has God as the author’. God, Who reveals or illuminates mysteries or truths, as He pleases, for these instruments of His, ‘spurring and moving them with supernatural virtues, assisting them in writing in such fashion that they rightly conceive with their intelligence and faithfully seek to write and, with suitable means and infallible truth, express all of the things, and only those things, which are commanded by Him, God.’ It is God Who, with a threefold action, illuminates the intellect so that it will know the truth without error, by either revelation—in the case of still unknown truths—or exact recollection, if they are truths already established, but still rather incomprehensible for human reason; it moves so that what the inspired one comes to know supernaturally will be written faithfully; it assists and directs so that the truths will be stated in the form and number which God wills, with veracity and clarity, so that they will be known to others for the good of many, with the very words of God in the direct teachings or with the words of those inspired when they describe visions or repeat supernatural lessons. (The Notebooks: 1945-1950, January 28th, 1947)

2 Tim. 3:16 reads: “Every Scripture is God-breathed and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness” and that is the truth.

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BobEstey, that’s not theology—that’s a fortune cookie dipped in self-help sauce. “Hell is the circumstances we find ourselves in when our sin has gone too far”? That’s not biblical doctrine. That’s a rehab pamphlet with spiritual wallpaper.

Hell isn’t just a rough patch or a moral hangover. It’s not what happens when you lose your job after cheating on your taxes. Hell is not a vibe. It’s a verdict. Jesus didn’t warn people about “bad consequences.” He warned them about eternal separation from God in a place of fire, torment, and wrath. That’s Matthew 25. That’s Revelation 20. That’s Jesus, not just Paul.

When you reduce hell to life going poorly, you turn the cross into an inspirational gesture instead of a blood-soaked rescue mission. Christ didn’t die to make your circumstances better. He died to save your soul from a judgment that is both real and eternal.

There are consequences to sin in this life, yes. You reap what you sow. But don’t mistake divine discipline or earthly fallout for final judgment. Hell is not a metaphor for rock bottom. It’s the bottomless pit. And once you’re there, there’s no climbing out.

This isn’t about behavior modification. It’s about salvation. Jesus didn’t come to clean up your circumstances. He came to deliver you from wrath.

The next time you think hell is just “going too far,” ask yourself why the Son of God went all the way to the cross. Because the reality He was saving us from isn’t a tough season—it’s eternal destruction.

Sober up your theology. Eternity depends on it.

Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.

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Soul, that’s a poetic avalanche of mystical language and spiritual sentiment—but none of it, not one syllable, overrides the finality of Scripture. Let’s make this sharp: quoting a vision claiming to be from Jesus doesn’t make it Gospel. It makes it suspect.

You say the “Poem of the Man-God” is inspired. I say show me chapter and verse. Not from Valtorta’s dream journal, but from the Word of God—the only Word that was God-breathed (2 Tim. 3:16), preserved through prophets, apostles, and the Spirit’s sovereign hand. That’s the standard. Not beautiful prose. Not emotional resonance. Truth.

When Jesus promised the Holy Spirit would remind the disciples of what He taught (John 14:26), He wasn’t promising to send future Italians mystical downloads 1900 years later. He was speaking to the Eleven. He wasn’t outsourcing divine commentary. He was promising apostolic recall, so the Gospel they preached would match the Gospel He lived. That promise was fulfilled in the canon, not in private revelations centuries later.

You claim this isn’t an addition to revelation but a restoration. Nice try. That’s like repainting the Mona Lisa and calling it a touch-up. Revelation 22:18 doesn’t just warn about additions—it rebukes the very spirit of presumption that says, “God needed to clarify.” He doesn’t. He didn’t. He won’t. The canon is closed. Jesus said, “It is finished,” not “To be continued.”

And if the Church needed a so-called “Gift” to wake it up, Jesus wouldn’t need a mystical ghostwriter. He’d raise up preachers bold enough to thunder the real Gospel again. What you’re describing isn’t spiritual renewal—it’s spiritual distraction. We already have the full picture of Divine Charity. It’s called the cross.

So no, Soul, I don’t reject the “Poem” because I’m drowsy. I reject it because I’m awake—awake to the sufficiency of Scripture, the finality of revelation, and the danger of letting emotion masquerade as inspiration.

What God has said is enough. What man adds is not.

Sincere Seeker. Scripturally savage. Here for the Truth.

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47

Friends
It’s hard to imagine that The Infinite Omnipresent One has made a hole where the sun of His Glory will not probe; a land where His warm comfort is lacking, and His radiance conspicuously absent. He will never be absent in the thoughts of those who find themselves there, but the experience of His presence is unavailable and any expressions of Holy God are unfelt. It’s hard to imagine a “world” absent of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, or self-control, or a place devoid of beauty, splendor, wonder, awe, magnificence, majesty, praise, and honor.

Human descriptions of such a place involve horrific imagery, and dreadful descriptions. How inspired men have described a place from which God has separated Himself calls upon the most fear inspiring terms, even so, every attempt at description falls short of an accurate accounting of pure unholiness. We can no more imagine a completely unholy place than we can imagine a completely holy one. We have no experience to associate with either. All of humanity who ever lived, with those living at this moment experience the Love of God moment by moment; He is is making His rain fall on the just and the unjust, usually without even noticing; too often without gratitude.

KP

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Scriptures please, let’s stay biblical.

J.

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@Johann, my brother

Of course, you know them. That is your specialty.
I could mention Matt 25: 29-30, 2 thes 1:9-10, Rev 14, etc. but I leave that academic expositon to the experts, (you). I appreciate your solid groundedness in The Word, and your carefull attention to detail. I am not here attempting to replicate another disciples work, but share an opinion based on The Word I also love. Thanx for keeping our feet to the fire.

KP

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I appreciate your tone and the mutual love for the Word. And I agree, online discussion lacks the depth of face-to-face fellowship, where sincerity shows in tone, body language, and shared presence. That absence can lead to misunderstandings or perceived sharpness where none is intended.

Still, even in this format, we’re accountable to speak the truth clearly, because eternity doesn’t bend to tone or setting, it bows to truth. When we speak of judgment, separation, and the final state of souls, we’re not dealing with private interpretations or devotional impressions, but God’s own revealed verdicts, like in Matthew 25:29–30, 2 Thessalonians 1:9–10, and Revelation 14.

These aren’t poetic flourishes; they are unalterable realities, pronounced by the Christ who was crucified to save us from them. My intent is not academic posturing, but urgent clarity, because if God has spoken, we are not free to reshape it. We submit, and we speak what He said, no more, no less.

J.

51

Of course, Amen (this platform needs an “AMEN” buttton.)
You keep being you. We appreciate you!

KP

p.s. (I’m just glad you didn’t make me catalog verse by verse all the “horrific imagery, and dreadful descriptions” or list all the places God is spoken of as expressing "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, or beauty, splendor, wonder, awe, magnificence, majesty, praise, and honor. With my slow mind, that would take a while.)

Blessings @Johann
KP

52

Didn’t see this late edit, guess we can “look over” the wrath part of YHWH on all unbelievers, since, as you say, –

Gal 5:19 ¶ Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are sexual immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, factions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, things which I am telling you in advance , just as I said before, that the ones who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, self control. Against such things there is no law.
Gal 5:24 Now those who belong to Christ [Literally “of Christ”] [Some manuscripts have “Christ Jesus”] have crucified the flesh together with its feelings and its desires.

Gal 5:25 ¶ If we live by the Spirit, we must also follow the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 We must not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

Gal 5:16 But I say, let your halakhah be by the Ruach HaKodesh, and by no means will you carry out the ta’avot (lusts) of the basar.
Gal 5:17 For the basar desires against the Ruach HaKodesh, and the Ruach HaKodesh desires against the basar–for these oppose each other–with the result that the things you wish you cannot do (Ro chp 7).
Gal 5:18 But if by the Ruach HaKodesh you are led, you are not under [epoch of] Torah.
Gal 5:19 Now the ma’asei habasar are manifest, dehainu (being:) zenut (fornication), tum’ah (impurity), zimmah (licentiousness),
Gal 5:20 Avodah zarah (idolatry), kashefanut (sorcery, witchcraft), eivot (enmities), merivah (strife), kinah (jealousy), rogez (anger), anochiyut (selfishness), machalokot (dissensions), kitot (sects),
Gal 5:21 Tzarut ayin (envyings), shichrut (drunkenness), holelut (carousing) and things like these, of which I tell you beforehand, as I said previously, that the ones practicing such things will not receive the nachalah (inheritance) of the Malchut Hashem.
Gal 5:22 But the p’ri of the Ruach HaKodesh is ahavah (agape), simcha (joy), shalom (peace), zitzfleisch (patience), nedivut (generosity, kindness), chesed (loving-kindness), ne’emanut (faithfulness),
Gal 5:23 Anavah (meekness, shiflut, lowliness), shlitah atzmi (self-control)…would you not agree?–against these things there is no isser (proscription in the Torah).
Gal 5:24 But the ones who are mekabel Moshiach Yehoshua have put to be talui al HaEtz (hanging on the Tree, DEVARIM 21:23) the basar with its teshukot (desires) and its ta’avot (lusts).
Gal 5:25 If we live by the Ruach HaKodesh, we should stay in line with the Derech HaYashar (Straight Way) of the Ruach HaKodesh.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become ba’alei ga’avah (conceited, haughty persons), provoking one another, envying one another.
OJB.

I believe we are all guilty of selective verse quotations.

Right, @KPuff?

J.

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ok chill @johann and @kpuff, u both are great, btw im reading both ur arguments, i love learning what u guys are saying but ik for real Hell is a real place, but u guys are great i mean yeah..May God bless u guys for educating others on this matter…
I would like to join u guys tomorrow
Peace
Sam

54

Very well said, @SincereSeeker!!

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So sorry @Johann. I am genuinely confused. I’m not sure what you are infering here. I can be pretty dense sometimes. I’m not sure what you mean by:

I was definately not “selecting verses” to make a point, if that is what you are thinking. I’m not sure how I communicated that, if I did. So sorry brother. I have no intention of offending, I have no desire to promote or participate in contention, strife, dissension, etc. If I came across that way, please forgive me in Jesus.

Your Bro
KP

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No need to apologize KP, forget this and let’s move on eis Messiah Yeshua.

J.

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@Johann
“As you wish” I’m happy to forget it , if that’s your desire.
I would appreciate, sometime, knowing what I did wrong. if possible.
I am genuinely confused. NO pressure. I would just like to improve my communication skills, especially with you, if possible.

Blessings
KP

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I was commenting on this-you said-

p.s. (I’m just glad you didn’t make me catalog verse by verse all the “horrific imagery, and dreadful descriptions” or list all the places God is spoken of as expressing "love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, or beauty, splendor, wonder, awe, magnificence, majesty, praise, and honor. With my slow mind, that would take a while.)

To me, this seems either like a breakdown in communication or a quiet resistance to what’s being said.

The world often proclaims that God is only love and must never offend, conveniently ignoring the justice of a holy YHWH and the wrath that presently abides on all who reject Him (John 3:36).

Since we’re not sitting face to face, it’s hard to discern exactly what you’re aiming at.

Care to elaborate @KPuff? Or do you have a problem with too many Scriptures?

Correct me if I’m wrong.

Johann.

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Oh Johann
I have NO problem with “too many scriptures”. You be YOU! That’ s great! I

I was not “quietly resisting” what was being said. I don’t do that. (I can see how you may have thought that, not knowing my sense of humor. That’ on me)

I know I don’t post like you, and I more often just post Truth as I know it, letting my “Yes be Yes” and my “No be No” without as many footnotes as some might appreciate. I’m sure there are people who do not appreciate my style; who prefer a more academic approach; who do not think like I do, and may not enjoy me being me. I’m not sure what I need do about that.

I thnk I misread “you being you” when you said:

Was there something I said that you found unbiblical, or you took issue with? We can talk about that if you want.

If not, were you just urging me to annotate my posts with scripture addresses, or format my posts more like the way you format your posts? I can hear you on that if so.

My late edit was a humerous attempt to mention all of the other ideas in my OP that I did not provide a specific reference to substantiante. I should learn to not assume on a relationship where it has not been properly established. That too is on me, and I will be more cautious in the future.

Thanx for your explanation.
KP

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See, that’s much better. You’re a “let your yes be yes, and your no be no” kind of man, and I genuinely respect that about you and who you are.

And just to be clear, I didn’t find your post unbiblical nor did I take issue with it. Maybe I shouldn’t have interjected.?
You don’t need to format your posts like mine. I tend to write more exegetically and hermeneutically, which often brings some pushback, that’s just the nature of how I communicate.

As for me, I’ll admit I’m not the humorous type. That’s my cross to bear, and I don’t give my trust away easily. I’m an Afrikaner, and English isn’t my mother tongue, though I speak several languages.

I trust this clears the air between us, does it?

Shalom @KPuff 01.23 AM South Africa time.

Johann.

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Of course. I sincerely appreciate you, your style, your dediction to the word, and your sincerity. Thanx for the explanation.

I’m on the same team with you, maybe we just play different positions. I rely on you as a teammate, even if I cannot do what you do.

Peace
KP

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62

I’ll leave you with this brother, we need each other, and there are no “lone wolf” Christianity.

  1. Romans 12:4–5 – “For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.”
    → Paul teaches that believers are organically connected and functionally interdependent like limbs in a body, you are not complete alone.

  2. 1 Corinthians 12:21 – “The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I have no need of you,’ nor again the head to the feet, ‘I have no need of you.’”
    → This demolishes the myth of spiritual self-sufficiency. No member of Christ’s body can claim independence from the others.

  3. Hebrews 10:24–25 – “And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another…”
    → We are commanded to meet together, not merely for routine, but to stimulate holiness and persevere in faith.

  4. Galatians 6:2 – “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.”
    → The law of Christ, rooted in love, requires shared load-bearing, not spiritual isolation.

  5. Ephesians 4:16 – “From him the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow…”
    → The body grows only when every part functions in relation to the others, meaning your spiritual health is tied to the health of others.

  6. Colossians 3:16 – “Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom…”
    → We are not just called to listen to sermons but to instruct and exhort one another with the word of Christ.

  7. James 5:16 – “Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed…”
    → Spiritual healing is connected to community, we are not designed to overcome sin in isolation.

  8. 1 Thessalonians 5:11 – “Therefore encourage one another and build one another up, just as you are doing.”
    → Encouragement isn’t optional; it’s a mutual command for building up the Church.

  9. Ecclesiastes 4:9–10 – “Two are better than one… for if they fall, one will lift up his fellow. But woe to him who is alone when he falls and has not another to lift him up.”
    → While from the Old Testament, this wisdom principle underscores the spiritual peril of isolation.

  10. John 13:34–35 – “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another… By this all people will know that you are my disciples…”
    → Our public witness depends on our love for one another, not on rugged individualism.

These verses collectively obliterate the myth of lone-wolf Christianity. The New Testament vision of the Church is not a crowd of isolated individuals but a living body, a family, a temple of interdependent stones, bound together by the Spirit and crucified with Christ.

J.

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