I heard something quite shocking yesterday, something I’ve really never heard before. My friend Alison thinks Jesus was an after thought of God. That after man was so evil and hell bent on disobeying, God had to come up with a plan to save the world. Thus His Son was brought to life, begotten. I’ve never heard this before.
I tried to explain why this is inconceivable but she shot me down, “I did not mean to start up anything. As I said: I will have to ask GOD some day.”
Well, of course we know she’s wrong and there’s plenty of Scripture to show her she’s wrong, but is it worth it? I have a homeless (let’s say friend) who believes Jesus was an alien. Now I suppose in some way He was an alien in that earth was not His home. But he thinks differently when he says alien and he’s so convinced of this that I leave it alone. For the time being I leave it alone because the conversation would go no where.
What I try to do on occasion is to ask questions about what they believe. Those questions lead us to a point where it’s obvious that their beliefs are not founded on anything. They made it up. They took ideas that they liked and linked them together into something they chose to believe. I don’t argue, debate or challenge. My goal is to get them to think it through.
The Bible is my authority and the evidence for what I believe. If you believe Jesus is an alien or after thought of God, you have no authority or evidence to point to.
There are quite a number of groups and movements that hold the idea that the Messiah was not eternally with God but was somehow an afterthought or a concept that came into existence only after humanity fell into sin. Such views appear in various forms among groups like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, some Unitarian movements, and certain modern sects influenced by adoptionism or Arian-type theology. In different ways they deny that the Son existed eternally with the Father and instead treat the Messiah as something created or conceived later in God’s plan.
Scripture, however, presents the Son as eternally existing with the Father and actively involved in creation itself. The Word did not begin when redemption became necessary but already existed with God from the beginning (~John 1:1–3). The Son shares the divine glory that existed before the world was created (~John 17:5), and all things were created through Him and for Him (~Colossians 1:16–17). The plan of redemption itself was not a late reaction to human sin but something established in God’s purpose before the foundation of the world (~1 Peter 1:19–20; ~Revelation 13:8).
Because of this, when someone is open to discussion it is always worthwhile to patiently explain the gospel and the testimony of Scripture concerning the eternal Son of God who came in the flesh, died on the cross, and rose again (~1 Corinthians 15:3–4). Yet when a person becomes closed minded and dogmatic, refusing to consider the clear witness of Scripture, it is sometimes wiser not to prolong fruitless disputes. Scripture itself warns against endless arguments that do not lead to edification (~2 Timothy 2:23; ~Titus 3:9).
J.
I didn’t want to create an air of argumentation.
Alison was pretty closed.
Prior to sharing this information, she said something about JW “beliefs” and I replied they didn’t believe in the trinity. She went on to say she’d been in Bible studies with JW’s for 3 years
Maybe she is actually a JW rather than of an Assembly belief. I thought of that as I read your response.
“Jesus, an afterthought of God,” I had to click in. Great attention getter. I’m not sure I can add to this conversation, though.
I think @Johann and @Bestill got this.
Peter
@Dogmum, it doesn’t seem that Alison is open to your position, that is, what you believe and why you believe it at this point. So, perhaps, the best thing for you to do is let that idea go and talk about other things she is open to discussing.
On the other hand, you could say to her, “Alison, I have a different opinion. You can believe what you want to, but would you be willing to hear my thoughts on the Father and Jesus?”
Then, if she is willing hear your thoughts based on the Bible, have them ready to share with her. Some of the passages might be as follows:
Isa 46:8 “Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors,
Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
Isa 46:11 calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.
Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things?
In other words, God knows the end from the beginning and has planned Jesus’ coming, dying, and rising from the dead from the time before he created anything, and he has planned it all with Jesus.
Jesus, as the Eternal Son and Word of the Father, is eternally begotten of the Father. This is, de facto, what Christians believe.
It is very depressing that so many Christians consider basic elements of the faith as “mere opinion” when these things are at the cornerstone of who and what we are. People died for this. When Jesus asks, “Who do you say I am?” there was a correct answer, and Peter gave it.
What we think about God, what we think about who Jesus is and His relation to God matters. This isn’t just whimsical flim flam. These things really matter.
As it pertains here: If Jesus was just some afterthought, then our understanding of God is no longer Jesus-centered. We instead can make “God” be anything we want.