I have a Cartesian brain; way too rational. I want to believe
I’m a logical thinker. Growing up, I was told I should be a lawyer. I could argue anything. It’s logic that tells me Christianity is truth.
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Jesus responds, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3)
K.
How are @MoroccanSeeker to “seek” after Messiah @KPuff ?
Since…
…according to Calvin’s framework, seeking Jesus apart from God’s grace is not possible. In Reformed theology, the human will is bound by sin and naturally oriented against God; without God’s regenerating work, no one truly seeks Christ on their own. Calvin calls this total depravity: the human mind and heart cannot choose God or respond savingly without divine intervention.
For Calvin, when Scripture says “seek ye the Lord” (for example, Isaiah 55:6), it is a call to those who have been awakened by the Spirit. Romans 3:10–12 shows the natural human condition: “There is none righteous, no not one; there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” The implication is that apart from God’s effectual calling, no one genuinely pursues Jesus.
Effectual calling, in Calvin’s terms, is when God draws the elect by the Spirit, illuminating their hearts so that they can turn in faith, repent, and seek Christ. Only then does seeking Jesus become possible. John 6:44 illustrates this: “No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him.” In other words, genuine pursuit of Jesus is initiated by God, not by the unregenerate human will.
So in Calvin’s system, it is correct to say that seeking Jesus on our own, by natural human effort or reasoning, is impossible. All true seeking of Christ arises from God’s prior work of grace, drawing the heart toward Himself.
Note what I am not saying, I am not saying that you are holding to a Calvinistic framework.
Mar_9:24 “‘I do believe, help my unbelief’” This is a present active imperative. Remember it is the object of faith, not the quantity, that is crucial (cf. Mat_17:20; Luk_17:6).
Notice that Jesus worked with this man’s doubts, as He will with ours.
Jesus deals with the father’s faith, not the boy’s, because he has been possessed since he was a child. One wonders if one of the reasons the disciples could not exorcize the boy was the father’s lack of faith in them. Jesus often focused on parent’s or friend’s faith in effecting cures and deliverances. This father’s words admit his need and beseeches Jesus’ help to further his faith. This is a prayer we could all pray! @MoroccanSeeker
The Textus Receptus adds kurie (i.e., the vocative of Lord), which may be a scribal addition to show the father’s faith by addressing Jesus as Lord, but this addition is not in any modern English translation besides KJV and NKJV.
J.
When adults tell this to children, is it not usually meant as sarcasm? 
jk
Bro. @Johann
I see what you are getting at. Good points. I appreciate that you raised these ideas.
I do not know what John Calvin said, or why he may have said it. I am no expert on Calvinism. If your statements about Calvin are accurate (and I’m sure they are), then I suppose the “facts in evidence” would support Calvin’s assertions, wouldn’t you say?
Let’s look at several contextual vignettes:
Mark 8:
A Blind Man Healed at Bethsaida, Starting with: (23) “He took the blind man by the hand and led him out of the town”, and the scene culminates with: (26) “Then He sent him away to his house, saying, “Neither go into the town, nor tell anyone in the town.”
Peter Confesses Jesus as the Christ, culminating with: (30) “Then He (Jesus) strictly warned them that they should tell no one about Him.”
Jesus rebukes Peter, who had just dared to rebuke Jesus
Jesus explains the cost of discipleship. that it means death to self.
Mark 9.
Transfiguration event, taking only three close disciples up into the mountain with him. The vignette culminates with (9)”Now as they came down from the mountain, He commanded them that they should tell no one the things they had seen, till the Son of Man had risen from the dead.”
Then, Jesus explains Elijah to the disciples, that (12) “The Son of Man, that He must suffer many things and be treated with contempt.” and John the Baptist, His beloved disciple, will also suffer and be treated with contempt.
Then the scene of healing the boy possessed by an evil spirit of muteness and convulsions, where (24) the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”. This vignette culminates with: (28-30) And when He had come into the house, His disciples asked Him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” So He (Jesus) said to them, “This kind can come out by nothing but prayer and fasting.” (asking, waiting, and listening). Then they departed from there and passed through Galilee, and He did not want anyone to know it.”
The contextual facts argue that Jesus was actively listening and obeying God, as a perpetual lifestyle, operating in intentional obscurity; “He did not want anyone to know it.” He walked listening and obeying, as was His habit, watching for what God is doing in your surroundings, and yielding to His Father’s urgings to act accordingly.
“Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does;…” (Jn 5:19-20)
Supporting facts in evidence for our question before us:
The boy’s father had already brought his son to Jesus.
The man sought remediation from Jesus because he believed Jesus could help.
The man confessed he did believe, as much as he could, and even asked Jesus for more “belief” if his was found to be insufficient.
Jesus did respond to the request by doing what He knew His Father was already doing (see context). Seeing the evidence of belief already present in the man, Jesus already knew The Father was already working here, already active, ready to demonstrate, in this moment, how He would eventually fully heal the dismal brokenness of the world and cast out all evil destroyers.
There are many instructive lessons for us, His redeemed sons, in these several vignettes; many examples of how we are to walk, like Jesus, in The Spirit of God, not seeking celebrity or noteriety, in submission, through suffering and contempt, asking, waiting, listening, and quickly obeying promptings as we observe the situation, as we realize God Himself is already operating in our present environment.
This may be what J. Calvin was saying. What do you think?
KP
Why complicate this for the member @MoroccanSeeker KP.? Should you wish, open a thread on Calvinism and we can take the discussion there. Don’t you think?
Matthew 6:33 uses ζητεῖτε, present active imperative of ζητέω.
Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you.[1]
Matthew 7:7 repeats the imperative ζητεῖτε.
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.[2]
When Paul preaches to pagans in Athens, he declares that God’s purpose is that they should seek Him, ζητεῖν, present infinitive of ζητέω.
That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him.[3]
Now the explicitly Pauline imperatives regarding response to Messiah.
Acts 17:30 records Paul saying God commands all men everywhere to repent. The content verb is μετανοεῖν.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent.[4]
Acts 16:31 gives a direct aorist active imperative, πίστευσον, believe.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved.[5]
Paul’s evangelistic plea in 2 Corinthians 5:20 includes καταλλάγητε, aorist passive imperative, be reconciled.
Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.[6]
Romans 10 places responsibility squarely on the hearer.
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.[7]
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.[8]
To believers, Paul still commands active pursuit. Colossians 3:1 again uses ζητεῖτε.
If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.[9]
Philippians 2:12 contains κατεργάζεσθε, present middle imperative.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.[10]
1 Timothy 6:12 includes ἀγωνίζου and ἐπιλαβοῦ, both imperatives.
Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life.[11]
If someone claims that humans cannot seek Messiah in any meaningful sense, the morphology will not cooperate. The New Testament repeatedly issues imperatives to repent, believe, call, seek, be reconciled, pursue, and lay hold.
Whatever theological system one adopts, the apostolic pattern is clear. God commands response. The verbs are in the imperative mood. The grammar does not apologize for that.
I can give more scripture references and context, for the member’s sake.
J.
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. KJV
↩︎Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. KJV
↩︎That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us. KJV
↩︎And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent. KJV
↩︎And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. KJV
↩︎Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God. KJV
↩︎That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. KJV
↩︎For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. KJV
↩︎If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. KJV
↩︎Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. KJV
↩︎Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called. KJV
↩︎
Yes. It wasn’t a compliment.
I had to look up “Cartesian brain” @MoroccanSeeker Can you elaborate a bit, for the readers sake?
J.
@Johann
Sorry, I didn’t intend to “complicate” it for Moroccanseeker, but rather to respond to you in a way which you deserve. I definately DO NOT wish to open any thread on Calvinism. Maybe you missed it, I am no expert on Calvinism, and I’m not looking for the merit badge.
Thanx for the sharpening.
KP
No, I have not missed it @KPuff and nobody here, I hope, is looking for the “merit badge”
I just go with the Imperatives and indicatives as it stands written in Scripture and love a healthy, edifying debate.
… none of your passages directly address whether the initial act of seeking is itself enabled irresistibly or graciously offered and resistible. So state plainly whether You believe humans, in their fallen state, can seek Christ apart from regenerating grace.
J.
It’s going to “rest” here, unopened, hence me not willing to share links.
French, “une regeneration spirituelle;”—a spiritual regeneration.
Calvin on Regeneration from His Commentary on John
by John Calvin
John 1: 13.
The will of the flesh and the will of man appear to me to mean the same thing; for I see no reason why flesh should be supposed to signify woman, as Augustine and many others explain it. On the contrary, the Evangelist repeats the same thing in a variety of words, in order to explain it more fully, and impress it more deeply on the minds of men. Though he refers directly to the Jews, who gloried in the flesh, yet from this passage a general doctrine may be obtained: that our being reckoned the sons of God does not belong to our nature, and does not proceed from us, but because God begat us willingly, (James 1:18,) that is, from undeserved love. Hence it follows, first, that faith does not proceed from ourselves, but is the fruit of spiritual regeneration; for the Evangelist affirms that no man can believe, unless he be begotten of God; and therefore faith is a heavenly gift. It follows, secondly, that faith is not bare or cold knowledge, since no man can believe who has not been renewed by the Spirit of God.
It may be thought that the Evangelist reverses the natural order by making regeneration to precede faith, whereas, on the contrary, it is an effect of faith, and therefore ought to be placed later. I reply, that both statements perfectly agree; because by faith we receive the incorruptible seed, (1 Peter 1:23,) by which we are born again to a new and divine life. And yet faith itself is a work of the Holy Spirit, who dwells in none but the children of God. So then, in various respects, faith is a part of our regeneration, and an entrance into the kingdom of God, that he may reckon us among his children. The illumination of our minds by the Holy Spirit belongs to our renewal, and thus faith flows from regeneration as from its source; but since it is by the same faith that we receive Christ, who sanctifies us by his Spirit, on that account it is said to be the beginning of our adoption.
Another solution, still more plain and easy, may be offered; for when the Lord breathes faith into us, he regenerates us by some method that is hidden and unknown to us; but after we have received faith, we perceive, by a lively feeling of conscience, not only the grace of adoption, but also newness of life and the other gifts of the Holy Spirit. For since faith, as we have said, receives Christ, it puts us in possession, so to speak, of all his blessings. Thus so far as respects our sense, it is only after having believed – that we begin to be the sons of God. But if the inheritance of eternal life is the fruit of adoption, we see how the Evangelist ascribes the whole of our salvation to the grace of Christ alone; and, indeed, how closely soever men examine themselves, they will find nothing that is worthy of the children of God, except what Christ has bestowed on them.
J.
Right, that was not my intention. Sorry to dissapoint.
KP
I’m accustomed to this, so it doesn’t disappoint me.
J.
OK. I’m not sure what you mean you are “accustomed to”, but I’m glad you’re not disappointed.
KP
“Lord, I believe; help my unbelief.” (Mark 9:24)
Mar 9:24 Immediately Εὐθὺς the ὁ vvv τοῦ boy’s παιδίου father πατὴρ cried out κράξας - , ἔλεγεν “I do believe; “Πιστεύω· help βοήθει my μου - τῇ unbelief!” ἀπιστίᾳ.
και ευθεως κραξας ο πατηρ του παιδιου μετα δακρυων ελεγεν πιστευω κυριε βοηθει μου τη απιστια
Thanks.
J.